The Inquisitions

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mjrhealth

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Instead of using 'the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God' (Eph. 6:17), the Catholic Church used the sword of the secular powers to combat heresy.
You mean the sword of the church, or was it matches and fires.
 

epostle1

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Instead of using 'the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God' (Eph. 6:17), the Catholic Church used the sword of the secular powers to combat heresy.
There were many heresies. Do you mean the ones that denied Christ's identity? How were secular powers used to combat heresy? What about the sabbitarian cults (SDA, JW) we have today (even running loose on this forum); is there a secular power combating them that no one knows about except you?

Give some scholarly historical background to your wild assertions.
 

tabletalk

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There were many heresies. Do you mean the ones that denied Christ's identity? How were secular powers used to combat heresy? What about the sabbitarian cults (SDA, JW) we have today (even running loose on this forum); is there a secular power combating them that no one knows about except you?

Give some scholarly historical background to your wild assertions.


It seems as if the Word of God uses excommunication as the Church's harshest penalty. Your Church tortured some heretics, and had many others put to death at the stake, using the secular authority.

 

BreadOfLife

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Instead of using 'the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God' (Eph. 6:17), the Catholic Church used the sword of the secular powers to combat heresy.
It seems as if the Word of God uses excommunication as the Church's harshest penalty. Your Church tortured some heretics, and had many others put to death at the stake, using the secular authority.
Actually - this is ignorant nonsense.
It was the other way around.

It was the secular authority who made certain things like heresy a crime - and THEY executed them.
Heresy was bad for the economy because caused rumbling of division and revolution. Secular authorities, therefore, mad it a crime against the State. The Church didn't do this.

I suggest you do a little history homework instead of depending on those wacky little Jack Chick tracts . . .
 

tabletalk

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Actually - this is ignorant nonsense.
It was the other way around.

It was the secular authority who made certain things like heresy a crime - and THEY executed them.
Heresy was bad for the economy because caused rumbling of division and revolution. Secular authorities, therefore, mad it a crime against the State. The Church didn't do this.

I suggest you do a little history homework instead of depending on those wacky little Jack Chick tracts . . .


Were the 'secular authorities' Catholic? I think so.
Since they were killing people who should have only been excommunicated, they themselves should have been excommunicated. Not killed. Your Church approved of the burnings at the stake.
I don't think the 'secular authorities' forced your Church to torture people either.
 

epostle1

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Were the 'secular authorities' Catholic? I think so.
You want to think so, but you have no evidence.
Since they were killing people who should have only been excommunicated, they themselves should have been excommunicated. Not killed. Your Church approved of the burnings at the stake.
I don't think the 'secular authorities' forced your Church to torture people either.
For the third time, provide some background context. You are just spewing the same 16th century rhetoric and it's meaningless. Name the people, the place, and the circumstances. Name any Ph.D. in history that agrees with your silly fabrications. You don't do any of this...EVER. Your assertions are baseless. And FYI, Protestants were worse. I can back that up, and you never back anything up.

I. PROTESTANT INTOLERANCE: AN INTRODUCTION AND OVERVIEW
II. PROTESTANT DIVISIONS AND MUTUAL ANIMOSITIES
III. PLUNDER AS AN AGENT OF RELIGIOUS REVOLUTION
IV. SYSTEMATIC SUPPRESSION OF CATHOLICISM
V. VIOLENT RADICALISM AND THE PROTESTANT REVOLUTION
VI. DEATH AND TORTURE FOR CATHOLICS, PROTESTANT DISSIDENTS, AND JEWS
VII. PROTESTANT CENSORSHIP
BIBLIOGRAPHY

[Citations will refer to authors in the Bibliography; any additional information will appear right after the citation]
[P = Protestant scholar / S = secular scholar]
In Defense of the Church: The Protestant Inquisition: "Reformation" Intolerance and Persecution by Dave Amstrong
tabletalk bibliography = "0"
 
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BreadOfLife

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Were the 'secular authorities' Catholic? I think so.
Since they were killing people who should have only been excommunicated, they themselves should have been excommunicated. Not killed. Your Church approved of the burnings at the stake.
I don't think the 'secular authorities' forced your Church to torture people either.
Doesn't matter if the secular Authorities were Buddhists.
The fact here is that YOU blamed the CHURCH for these executions and history shows us something different.

As for your 2nd comment in RED - what are you talking about?? If the SECULAR Governments were executing heretics - HOW would they "excommunicated" them?? Excommunication is a Church matter - not a matter for the state.

It's probably best if you just ADMIT that you don't know your history and move on . . .
 

tabletalk

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Doesn't matter if the secular Authorities were Buddhists.
The fact here is that YOU blamed the CHURCH for these executions and history shows us something different.

As for your 2nd comment in RED - what are you talking about?? If the SECULAR Governments were executing heretics - HOW would they "excommunicated" them?? Excommunication is a Church matter - not a matter for the state.

It's probably best if you just ADMIT that you don't know your history and move on . . .


I'm sure your knowledge of history excels mine, but I'm fairly certain that most people in the Catholic lands, in those centuries that the Inquisitions were active, were Catholic.
If that is so, then if a Catholic secular ruler executed a heretic because your Church excommunicated him for heresy, then that ruler should be excommunicated also. Why? Because that ruler killed someone who was not to be killed, only excommunicated.
 

BreadOfLife

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I'm sure your knowledge of history excels mine, but I'm fairly certain that most people in the Catholic lands, in those centuries that the Inquisitions were active, were Catholic.
If that is so, then
if a Catholic secular ruler executed a heretic because your Church excommunicated him for heresy, then that ruler should be excommunicated also. Why? Because that ruler killed someone who was not to be killed, only excommunicated.
First of all - this is your own opinion and NOT a historical fact. MOST people who go into heresy are not formally excommunicated by the Church. Most of the people who were executed for the "crime" of heresy espoused their aberrant beliefs to others in an attempt to cause division. This was bad for a kingdom.

The Church didn't go around killing heretics. It was the secular governments who took care of that to prevent division among the people.
Just because a ruler was Catholic doesn't mean that the Church is to blame for what they did - any more than Pope Francis is responsible for the actions of dissident heretics like Joe Biden . . .
 

epostle1

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I'm sure your knowledge of history excels mine, but I'm fairly certain that most people in the Catholic lands, in those centuries that the Inquisitions were active, were Catholic.
If that is so, then if a Catholic secular ruler executed a heretic because your Church excommunicated him for heresy, then that ruler should be excommunicated also. Why? Because that ruler killed someone who was not to be killed, only excommunicated.
What makes you think bad rulers have not been excommunicated? One must be Catholic to be excommunicated.
Again, you give no names, no dates, no places and invent hypothetical scenarios with no historical context. Your efforts to demonize the justice system of 1000+ years ago (and the Church) is getting boring. Try blaming bad weather, volcanoes, hurricanes, forest fires and teen acne on the Jesuits. That should be fun.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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As a matter of fact - the Inquisitions were a good thing, in that it gave people a chance to plead their case instead of simply being executed or tortured by the state. During the 400 or so years of the Inquisitions, only about 4000 people were executed - as opposed to the "millions" we often hear about.

'...that it gave people a chance to plead'!? Man, you overestimate 'people's', 'ignorance' so overtly it's astonishing! You even think 'people' will laugh for your jokes, like the one, 'only about 4000 people were executed - as opposed to the "millions" we often hear about'!
You are just too incredibly convincing!
 

BreadOfLife

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'...that it gave people a chance to plead'!? Man, you overestimate 'people's', 'ignorance' so overtly it's astonishing! You even think 'people' will laugh for your jokes, like the one, 'only about 4000 people were executed - as opposed to the "millions" we often hear about'!
You are just too incredibly convincing!
If "millions" were killed - the onus is on YOU to produce those numbers.

The anti-Catholic numbers always range from the tens of millions to HUNDREDS of millions. The funny thing is that there weren't "Hundreds" of millions of people in Europe during this time. Even the "tens" of millions nonsense would have wiped out the entire continent.

Ummmmmm, talk about bad jokes . . . .
 
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