The Key to all the Parables of Jesus

[Wynona]

So you are very poor in understanding..even a total lack thereof..and why? Why be such a religious nut? God hates religion.

God does not hate religion.

James 1:27
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


You have been unfair to Lizbeth in calling her a bigot and a religious nut. In another thread, you talked about how we should love our enemies. You promote Gandhi's actions. But insulting people again and again is not in line with either of those.

 

[Episkopos]

God does not hate religion.

James 1:27
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


You have been unfair to Lizbeth in calling her a bigot and a religious nut. In another thread, you talked about how we should love our enemies. You promote Gandhi's actions. But insulting people again and again is not in line with either of those.

I know that rebuke is hard to hear at times...or all the time.

The way of Christ is about being hard on ourselves but easy on others (forgive them Father for they know not what they do)

A liberal will go easy on himself AND others.

A Conservative will be hard on himself AND others.

A hypocrite goes easy on himself and hard on others.


When we are hard on others (sinners, other religions etc) we tend to judge them and that brings judgment on us. We are held to a higher standard by God. To whom much is given more is required.

So we correct those in the church...even exposing them...but those who are outside the faith God judges as He sees fit.

We are not called to judge the word but simply give a faithful witness to the higher walk in Christ. If we have not attained to that walk then we are to patiently wait on the Lord. In either case we are to be humble and fear the Lord.

Light exposes darkness. Let the hypocrites repent...take on the high calling for themselves and exude love for all people.... especially (but not exclusively) the brethren.

 

[Lizbeth]

God does not hate religion.

James 1:27
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


You have been unfair to Lizbeth in calling her a bigot and a religious nut. In another thread, you talked about how we should love our enemies. You promote Gandhi's actions. But insulting people again and again is not in line with either of those.

Unfortunately, it's the gospel that Jesus brought and the apostles taught that Epi is calling bigoted and religious. He's on dangerous ground.

 

[mailmandan]

God does not hate religion.

James 1:27
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


You have been unfair to Lizbeth in calling her a bigot and a religious nut. In another thread, you talked about how we should love our enemies. You promote Gandhi's actions. But insulting people again and again is not in line with either of those.

Amen! James 1:26 - If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless. This man's religion is vain, empty, devoid of power, lacking in content, nonproductive, dead and of no eternal value.

James 1:27 - Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. God certainly does not hate that.

There is nothing wrong with "pure and undefiled religion" but there is certainly something wrong with "impure and defiled religion."

 

[Wynona]

I know that rebuke is hard to hear at times...or all the time.

The way of Christ is about being hard on ourselves but easy on others (forgive them Father for they know not what they do)

A liberal will go easy on himself AND others.

A Conservative will be hard on himself AND others.

A hypocrite goes easy on himself and hard on others.


When we are hard on others (sinners, other religions etc) we tend to judge them and that brings judgment on us. We are held to a higher standard by God. To whom much is given more is required.

So we correct those in the church...even exposing them...but those who are outside the faith God judges as He sees fit.

We are not called to judge the word but simply give a faithful witness to the higher walk in Christ. If we have not attained to that walk then we are to patiently wait on the Lord. In either case we are to be humble and fear the Lord.

Light exposes darkness. Let the hypocrites repent...take on the high calling for themselves and exude love for all people.... especially (but not exclusively) the brethren.

This is true. I do respect you as a person or I would not have said anything.

When threads get ugly, my default choice is to disengage. But we are to seek peace and pursue it.

I don't actually think most people here enjoy being unkind or insulting. It tends to come out on this forum as we get caught up in discussion. But every day is a new day to get it right.

 

[Lizbeth]

I know that rebuke is hard to hear at times...or all the time.

The way of Christ is about being hard on ourselves but easy on others (forgive them Father for they know not what they do)

A liberal will go easy on himself AND others.

A Conservative will be hard on himself AND others.

A hypocrite goes easy on himself and hard on others.


When we are hard on others (sinners, other religions etc) we tend to judge them and that brings judgment on us. We are held to a higher standard by God. To whom much is given more is required.

So we correct those in the church...even exposing them...but those who are outside the faith God judges as He sees fit.

We are not called to judge the word but simply give a faithful witness to the higher walk in Christ. If we have not attained to that walk then we are to patiently wait on the Lord. In either case we are to be humble and fear the Lord.

Light exposes darkness. Let the hypocrites repent...take on the high calling for themselves and exude love for all people.... especially (but not exclusively) the brethren.

We are called to be faithful witnesses of Jesus Christ who we are witnesses of because we actually have met and know Him personally, having our lives turned around and being in a living relationship with Him. The only thing me or anyone else here is judging regarding the world is that they are lost as we all once were, and in need of the Saviour who is the only means to salvation that God has provided mankind.

 

[Lizbeth]

I know that rebuke is hard to hear at times...or all the time.

The way of Christ is about being hard on ourselves but easy on others (forgive them Father for they know not what they do)

A liberal will go easy on himself AND others.

A Conservative will be hard on himself AND others.

A hypocrite goes easy on himself and hard on others.


When we are hard on others (sinners, other religions etc) we tend to judge them and that brings judgment on us. We are held to a higher standard by God. To whom much is given more is required.

So we correct those in the church...even exposing them...but those who are outside the faith God judges as He sees fit.

We are not called to judge the word but simply give a faithful witness to the higher walk in Christ. If we have not attained to that walk then we are to patiently wait on the Lord. In either case we are to be humble and fear the Lord.

Light exposes darkness. Let the hypocrites repent...take on the high calling for themselves and exude love for all people.... especially (but not exclusively) the brethren.

Don't know if there's any point in commenting any further, but hypocritical and bigoted are YOUR judgments, which just to let you know I don't put any stock in.

And I've seen the kind of "love" that people "exude" from self righteous flesh, it isn't the kind of love that God is talking about.

 

[ChristisGod]

I know that rebuke is hard to hear at times...or all the time.

The way of Christ is about being hard on ourselves but easy on others (forgive them Father for they know not what they do)

A liberal will go easy on himself AND others.

A Conservative will be hard on himself AND others.

A hypocrite goes easy on himself and hard on others.


When we are hard on others (sinners, other religions etc) we tend to judge them and that brings judgment on us. We are held to a higher standard by God. To whom much is given more is required.

So we correct those in the church...even exposing them...but those who are outside the faith God judges as He sees fit.

We are not called to judge the word but simply give a faithful witness to the higher walk in Christ. If we have not attained to that walk then we are to patiently wait on the Lord. In either case we are to be humble and fear the Lord.

Light exposes darkness. Let the hypocrites repent...take on the high calling for themselves and exude love for all people.... especially (but not exclusively) the brethren.

Yet you are hard on everyone here who disagrees with you so by your own admission you fall into the 3rd category described above. Thanks for finally admitting this and maybe now you can be healed and begin the recovery process . Just like they do in AA. Admitting there is a problem is the 1st step in recovery .

And remember God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Episkopos]

God does not hate religion.

James 1:27
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


You have been unfair to Lizbeth in calling her a bigot and a religious nut. In another thread, you talked about how we should love our enemies. You promote Gandhi's actions. But insulting people again and again is not in line with either of those.

I don't see anyone here as my enemy. Yes, the devil is at work in uncrucified flesh. But if people can't see what they are doing...then I will take the responsibility trying something less "insulting". I grieve for some people here. But I am responsible to act in a wise and timely way.

It's unfortunate that that my rebukes are taken as insults. But I will change my approach as you suggest. I will stop trying to point out things on a personal basis. I am not the Holy Spirit. We are each responsible for our own part. I hope to proceed in a way that does not make receiving things more difficult than it already is.

Thank you for your correction, sister. God bless you.

 

[Episkopos]

Yet you are hard on everyone here who disagrees with you so by your own admission you fall into the 3rd category described above. Thanks for finally admitting this and maybe now you can be healed and begin the recovery process . Just like they do in AA. Admitting there is a problem is the 1st step in recovery .

And remember God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

hope this helps !!!

Yes, He gives grace to the humble. I have a very different understanding of things compared to some here. But we are not here to try changing each other. We have to allow for differences in perceptions. We are each individually responsible to the Lord for what we do. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts us as we seek God.

I have taken your insults towards me as a cry for help. I have not taken you seriously beyond that. But I see you are happy with the way you already understand spiritual things. So be it. I may question some stances here in the future but I will cease from trying to get you and others to see things as I do.

We all have blind spots when it comes to the things of God and it wiser to try to understand one another...or just move on.

I hope we can agree that challenging each other has limits. I have reached that limit and for the sake of harmony on the forum, I will leave it to people to judge things for themselves...while personally I will endeavour to use a lighter touch!

The forum is not a natural way to communicate. I realize our perceived personas are not necessarily who we really are. Adjustments must be made.

 

[Enoch111]

The audacity and blindness of those who name His name yet make up their own religion and rewrite the word of God, is just astounding.

I have said this all along and will say it again. Episkopos has manufactured his own theology, and is an enemy of the true Gospel. So actually it is a total waste of time getting involved with his false ideas.

 

[Episkopos]

I have said this all along and will say it again. Episkopos has manufactured his own theology, and is an enemy of the true Gospel. So actually it is a total waste of time getting involved with his false ideas.

The true gospel, as you put it, would seem to be a subjective thing when taken up by human beings...as no one is the final authority on earth on the things of God. God works in a deeper way that what any human can grasp. Do you agree that His ways are far above our own ways?

When someone is born again, they have a personal connection to the living God. I don't understand, for the life of me, why someone would take offense at my exhortation to seek God for more than the same.

Rather than trying to surmise why that might be so, I will leave it to each person to do as they think is best...since we are not the final arbiter of truth...and certainly not of people's behaviour.....even if we are fully convinced we are such.

 

[Episkopos]

I hope that as many as possible realize my purpose has not been to hurt anyone but to help...to team up with a person's own inner man..to help people break free from whatever bondage. That approach has not worked.

I have tried to be light-hearted...but even that was perceived by some as being hurtful. There is no way in that I can see.
So I will cease and desist and respect a person's stance based on the free will that each of us is given....whether I agree with it or not. If trying harder is seen as hurting more...than the process has to stop. A gentle word breaks bones...but people resist what they are not familiar with.

I like the adage that "the truth is at first resisted...but then eventually taken to be self-evident." I will be patient with God's timing on that!

We each have the freedom given by God to follow Christ as we see fit. We each have a unique perspective...and God will judge who are worthy of censorship and who aren't. He is sovereign over us all.

Praise the living God!

 

[Johann]

I hope that as many as possible realize my purpose has not been to hurt anyone but to help...to team up with a person's own inner man..to help people break free from whatever bondage. That approach has not worked.

I have tried to be light-hearted...but even that was perceived by some as being hurtful. There is no way in that I can see.
So I will cease and desist and respect a person's stance based on the free will that each of us is given....whether I agree with it or not. If trying harder is seen as hurting more...than the process has to stop. A gentle word breaks bones...but people resist what they are not familiar with.

I like the adage that "the truth is at first resisted...but then eventually taken to be self-evident." I will be patient with God's timing on that!

We each have the freedom given by God to follow Christ as we see fit. We each have a unique perspective...and God will judge who are worthy of censorship and who aren't. He is sovereign over us all.

Praise the living God!

Why the softening of the tone brother? I was shocked that you accept sister @Wynona correction-hopefully you would be more approachable?
Johann.

 

[Episkopos]

Why the softening of the tone brother? I was shocked that you accept sister @Wynona correction-hopefully you would be more approachable?
Johann.

Johann, I never thought I was unapproachable. I thought to engage ideas...but I see now that that approach still gets perceived as being harsh. So yes, I will endeavour to be more "lifelike" and not treat the forum like there weren't real people involved.

I guess the anonymity thing....in order to hash it out with others...also breeds an inhuman-like coldness. So I'm going to treat people as people, not purveyors of ideas.

Peace and blessings! <><

 

[Johann]

Yes, the devil is at work in uncrucified flesh.

But why should the devil be at work in the un-crucified flesh?

Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal_5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal_5:24. ἐσταύρωσαν. The Apostle has already traced back his own spiritual life to the fellowship with the crucifixion of Christ, which he had undergone at his conversion (Gal_2:20).

He assumes that his converts have likewise crucified the will of the flesh—not, however (as the previous context shows), that that will is already dead, but that the spirit has by one decisive victory asserted its complete supremacy in all true Christians, and so given an earnest of its entire triumph in the end.—παθήμασιν. This word departs here from its usual meaning, sufferings, and expresses inward emotions, as in Rom_7:5. Greek philosophers applied πάθος in like manner to denote active impulses of passion.

To make it even more clearer--
Crucified the flesh (tēn sarka estaurōsan). Definite event, first aorist active indicative of stauroō as in Gal_2:19 (mystical union with Christ).

Paul uses sarx here in the same sense as in Gal_5:16, Gal_5:17, Gal_5:19, “the force in men that makes for evil” (Burton).
With (sun). “Together with,” emphasizing “the completeness of the extermination of this evil force” and the guarantee of victory over one’s passions and dispositions toward evil.
Robertson
have crucified the flesh—They nailed it to the cross once for all when they became Christ’s, on believing and being baptized (Ro 6:3, 4): they keep it now in a state of crucifixion (Ro 6:6): so that the Spirit can produce in them, comparatively uninterrupted by it, “the fruit of the Spirit” (Ga 5:22). “Man, by faith, is dead to the former standing point of a sinful life, and rises to a new life (Ga 5:25) of communion with Christ (Col 3:3). The act by which they have crucified the flesh with its lust, is already accomplished ideally in principle. But the practice, or outward conformation of the life, must harmonize with the tendency given to the inward life” (Ga 5:25) [Neander]. We are to be executioners, dealing cruelly with the body of sin, which has caused the acting of all cruelties on Christ’s body.

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible, vol. 2 (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 338.

5:24 "those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh" This is AORIST ACTIVE INDICATIVE which speaks of completed action in past time. This passage, and others which imply mystical union, can be interpreted within theological categories (cf. Rom. 6:6). Throughout the book of Galatians, particularly 2:20, "crucify" is used to characterize our relationship to the Law. Once we accept God's free offer of grace in Christ as our only means of salvation, we decisively cut ourselves off from the evil of our fallen nature and the fallen world system. This personal decision of cutting ourselves off is the biblical metaphor of "crucifixion" as seen in Gal. 2:20; 5:24 and 6:14.

This is often characterized as "death to self." God has made us individually (cf. Psalm 139) to serve Him and not ourselves (cf. Rom. 6). This new life in Christ means death to the fallen, self-centered lifestyle of rebellious mankind (cf. Gal. 2:20; Rom. 6:11; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; 1 John 3:16).

Would you agree @Episkopos?

We have died with Christ-now look at this verse-

Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom_6:6. All this can be asserted, knowing as we do that “our old man” = our old self, what we were before we became Christians—was crucified with Him. Paul says συνεσταυρώθη simply because Christ died on the cross, and we are baptised into that death, not because “our old man” is the basest of criminals for whom crucifixion is the proper penalty. The object of this crucifixion of the old man was “that the body of sin might be brought to nought”. τὸ σῶμα τῆς ἁμαρτίας is the body in which we live: apart from the crucifixion of the old self it can be characterised as “a body of sin”. It may be wrong to say that it is necessarily and essentially sinful—the body, as such, can have no moral predicate attached to it; it would be as wrong to deny that it is invariably and persistently a seat and source of sin. The genitive is perhaps qualitative rather than possessive, though “the body of which sin has taken possession” (S. and H.) is a good paraphrase. See Winer, p. 235, 768. This body is to be reduced to impotence τοῦ μηκέτι δουλεύειν ἡμᾶς κ.τ.λ. “that we may no longer be slaves to sin”. The body is the instrument we use in the service of sin, and if it is disabled the service must cease. For the gen inf, see Burton, § 397.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

συνεσταυρώθη
Transliteration: synestaurōthē

Morphology: V-AIP-3S
Verb - Aorist Indicative Passive - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's no.: G4957 (συσταυρόω)
Meaning: To crucify together with.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Crucified the flesh (tēn sarka estaurōsan). Definite event, first aorist active indicative of stauroō as in Gal_2:19 (mystical union with Christ).

Paul uses sarx here in the same sense as in Gal_5:16, Gal_5:17, Gal_5:19, “the force in men that makes for evil” (Burton).
With (sun). “Together with,” emphasizing “the completeness of the extermination of this evil force” and the guarantee of victory over one’s passions and dispositions toward evil.
Robertson

So how can you say "the devil is at work in the un-crucified flesh?"

Johann.

 

[Episkopos]

But why should the devil be at work in the un-crucified flesh?

Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal_5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal_5:24. ἐσταύρωσαν. The Apostle has already traced back his own spiritual life to the fellowship with the crucifixion of Christ, which he had undergone at his conversion (Gal_2:20).

He assumes that his converts have likewise crucified the will of the flesh—not, however (as the previous context shows), that that will is already dead, but that the spirit has by one decisive victory asserted its complete supremacy in all true Christians, and so given an earnest of its entire triumph in the end.—παθήμασιν. This word departs here from its usual meaning, sufferings, and expresses inward emotions, as in Rom_7:5. Greek philosophers applied πάθος in like manner to denote active impulses of passion.

To make it even more clearer--
Crucified the flesh (tēn sarka estaurōsan). Definite event, first aorist active indicative of stauroō as in Gal_2:19 (mystical union with Christ).

Paul uses sarx here in the same sense as in Gal_5:16, Gal_5:17, Gal_5:19, “the force in men that makes for evil” (Burton).
With (sun). “Together with,” emphasizing “the completeness of the extermination of this evil force” and the guarantee of victory over one’s passions and dispositions toward evil.
Robertson
have crucified the flesh—They nailed it to the cross once for all when they became Christ’s, on believing and being baptized (Ro 6:3, 4): they keep it now in a state of crucifixion (Ro 6:6): so that the Spirit can produce in them, comparatively uninterrupted by it, “the fruit of the Spirit” (Ga 5:22). “Man, by faith, is dead to the former standing point of a sinful life, and rises to a new life (Ga 5:25) of communion with Christ (Col 3:3). The act by which they have crucified the flesh with its lust, is already accomplished ideally in principle. But the practice, or outward conformation of the life, must harmonize with the tendency given to the inward life” (Ga 5:25) [Neander]. We are to be executioners, dealing cruelly with the body of sin, which has caused the acting of all cruelties on Christ’s body.

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible, vol. 2 (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 338.

5:24 "those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh" This is AORIST ACTIVE INDICATIVE which speaks of completed action in past time. This passage, and others which imply mystical union, can be interpreted within theological categories (cf. Rom. 6:6). Throughout the book of Galatians, particularly 2:20, "crucify" is used to characterize our relationship to the Law. Once we accept God's free offer of grace in Christ as our only means of salvation, we decisively cut ourselves off from the evil of our fallen nature and the fallen world system. This personal decision of cutting ourselves off is the biblical metaphor of "crucifixion" as seen in Gal. 2:20; 5:24 and 6:14.

This is often characterized as "death to self." God has made us individually (cf. Psalm 139) to serve Him and not ourselves (cf. Rom. 6). This new life in Christ means death to the fallen, self-centered lifestyle of rebellious mankind (cf. Gal. 2:20; Rom. 6:11; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; 1 John 3:16).

Would you agree @Episkopos?

We have died with Christ-now look at this verse-

Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom_6:6. All this can be asserted, knowing as we do that “our old man” = our old self, what we were before we became Christians—was crucified with Him. Paul says συνεσταυρώθη simply because Christ died on the cross, and we are baptised into that death, not because “our old man” is the basest of criminals for whom crucifixion is the proper penalty. The object of this crucifixion of the old man was “that the body of sin might be brought to nought”. τὸ σῶμα τῆς ἁμαρτίας is the body in which we live: apart from the crucifixion of the old self it can be characterised as “a body of sin”. It may be wrong to say that it is necessarily and essentially sinful—the body, as such, can have no moral predicate attached to it; it would be as wrong to deny that it is invariably and persistently a seat and source of sin. The genitive is perhaps qualitative rather than possessive, though “the body of which sin has taken possession” (S. and H.) is a good paraphrase. See Winer, p. 235, 768. This body is to be reduced to impotence τοῦ μηκέτι δουλεύειν ἡμᾶς κ.τ.λ. “that we may no longer be slaves to sin”. The body is the instrument we use in the service of sin, and if it is disabled the service must cease. For the gen inf, see Burton, § 397.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

συνεσταυρώθη
Transliteration: synestaurōthē

Morphology: V-AIP-3S
Verb - Aorist Indicative Passive - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's no.: G4957 (συσταυρόω)
Meaning: To crucify together with.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Crucified the flesh (tēn sarka estaurōsan). Definite event, first aorist active indicative of stauroō as in Gal_2:19 (mystical union with Christ).

Paul uses sarx here in the same sense as in Gal_5:16, Gal_5:17, Gal_5:19, “the force in men that makes for evil” (Burton).
With (sun). “Together with,” emphasizing “the completeness of the extermination of this evil force” and the guarantee of victory over one’s passions and dispositions toward evil.
Robertson

So how can you say "the devil is at work in the un-crucified flesh?"

Johann.

Paul was writing to encourage people in the faith and at times correct people's behaviour. But I don't think he was trying to formulate a creedal statement that we simply agree with and then claim as our own.

Paul experienced what he testified about. It wasn't by a declaration of a doctrinal stance we all should adopt. More like something we need to seek for at the throne of grace. And when it is a "we" I don't think that's a universal "we" but a subjective one based on the people who he knew and was writing to.

We have to remember how long ago that this was written. Attitudes have changed.

So then the bible is a book of inspiration, truth and instruction. But we have to guard against being the ones who place ourselves within the text.

Who can say that they are so dead to sin that it is no longer "I"...(ego) that is living in the body?

Paul is describing a work of the cross that actually puts to death what we think we are...and where we live from. It's the hidden parts that God is after. And we need to "get out of the way" to give God access to that weak interior of ours...so that He can empower it to overcome all things.

Ps. 51:6 Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part You shall make me to know wisdom.

Having said all that...if people think that by believing certain things certain ways...it helps with their ability to carry on and persevere with a living hope...then that is up to the individual.

For example...people who believe in universalism...although I think they are taking things much too far...it may provide them with a character that is loving and hopeful of others. I don't see where we will be judged by what we believe...rather what we have done with what we have been given. And if anyone lacks anything...they can always go to God. Apparently He is always available!

 

[Johann]

Paul experienced what he testified about. It wasn't by a declaration of a doctrinal stance we all should adopt. More like something we need to seek for at the throne of grace. And when it is a "we" I don't think that's a universal "we" but a subjective one based on the people who he knew and was writing to.

So what is the Scripture FOR and To whom?

Not to "us" -nothing in Scripture that is applicable to us?

Pretty bold statement coming from you @Episkopos and one that I simply cannot agree with.

What do "we" need to seek at the throne room of grace when the Bible is not FOR us? So, if I quote Scriptures, that is not for you-it's for "them"-Did Messiah not died at the cross for the sins of the whole world? Was it for "them" and not to us?

If I understand you correctly-the 13 Pauline epistles are not for "us" but unto "them?"

What about the 4 gospel accounts-was it "for them" and not to us?

Should I "get a whole lot of experiences" outside Scriptures, since Scripture, my Bible, is not "to me?
See where this is going?
Johann

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes, He gives grace to the humble. I have a very different understanding of things compared to some here. But we are not here to try changing each other. We have to allow for differences in perceptions. We are each individually responsible to the Lord for what we do. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts us as we seek God.

I have taken your insults towards me as a cry for help. I have not taken you seriously beyond that. But I see you are happy with the way you already understand spiritual things. So be it. I may question some stances here in the future but I will cease from trying to get you and others to see things as I do.

We all have blind spots when it comes to the things of God and it wiser to try to understand one another...or just move on.

I hope we can agree that challenging each other has limits. I have reached that limit and for the sake of harmony on the forum, I will leave it You ato people to judge things for themselves...while personally I will endeavour to use a lighter touch!

The forum is not a natural way to communicate. I realize our perceived personas are not necessarily who we really are. Adjustments must be made.

You are conflating correcting you with insults. I do it in love without insults unlike you calling those who disagree with you animal and bird names. So once again you are projecting.

BTW- Maybe just maybe you are the one that may have the "blind spots" , even consider that possibility ?

Pride would say never, humility would admit the possibility and realize you do not know all the truth, no man does. We all need correction.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Episkopos]

So what is the Scripture FOR and To whom?

Not to "us" -nothing in Scripture that is applicable to us?

Pretty bold statement coming from you @Episkopos and one that I simply cannot agree with.

What do "we" need to seek at the throne room of grace when the Bible is not FOR us? So, if I quote Scriptures, that is not for you-it's for "them"-Did Messiah not died at the cross for the sins of the whole world? Was it for "them" and not to us?

If I understand you correctly-the 13 Pauline epistles are not for "us" but unto "them?"

What about the 4 gospel accounts-was it "for them" and not to us?

Should I "get a whole lot of experiences" outside Scriptures, since Scripture, my Bible, is not "to me?
See where this is going?
Johann

If we can see the bible as a ticket to an audience with God....it then depends on when you think when that audience needs to take place.

I think most believe that an actual divine encounter will only happen after we die.

But my testimony...and that of the bible as I perceive it...is that we are to seek for that audience now. Call it the throne of grace. Call it buying the oil for our lamps....there are many metaphors.

In so doing ...as we work out our salvation with fear and trembling...my view is that we avoid being rejected by the Lord as in..I never knew you."

If a person feels that that is not a possibility...for whatever reason...then that is a personal decision.

I am for the seeing seeking through...no matter how long it takes. If we refrain from giving God our all....which means that for those who think it impossible or improbable that such a connection can be made with the living God...at least may the Lord find us watching and praying and doing what we can to make that connection with Him irregardless of the success of our seeking.

I just want to encourage us all to watch and pray...and seek until we find. Is there not more to the Christian walk than what we moderns have come to see as normal? (rhetorical question)

Peace