The Lake of Fire or Hell

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Ziggy

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I hope you don't mean literally.
The Word of God is spiritual.

An unsaved person lives in hell, They are tormented in their soul even though they don't see it.
They believe they are rich, but they are poor.

Those who believe live above, all our cares are on Jesus.

This world is just a wilderness and we are pilgrims passing through time and space, being perfected and refined.
It's a never ending process until we leave this body and this life.

Hugs

I guess some might call it pergatory.. but I believe it's hell for those who don't repent, and heaven for those who do.
There is no middle ground, only the testing ground.
 

Jack

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The Word of God is spiritual.

An unsaved person lives in hell, They are tormented in their soul even though they don't see it.
They believe they are rich, but they are poor.

Those who believe live above, all our cares are on Jesus.

This world is just a wilderness and we are pilgrims passing through time and space, being perfected and refined.
It's a never ending process until we leave this body and this life.

Hugs

I guess some might call it pergatory.. but I believe it's hell for those who don't repent, and heaven for those who do.
There is no middle ground, only the testing ground.
You don't believe humans will be burned in the Lake of Fire?

Revelation 20:15
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
 

Ziggy

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You don't believe humans will be burned in the Lake of Fire?

Revelation 20:15
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
not literally no.
 

Jack

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not literally no.
In spite of all the NT warnings???

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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OKAY.....

As suspected. No one knows.

There are those who say no one will burn for eternity in hell fire, that they will die as in cease to exist.

Others say that You will be in hell for an eternity.

Others believe that when you die in this body, that is it you are gone.... dead.

And there is no definitive clarity in the bible.

Only that which says... Matt 10:28 (An oldie and a newbie)

Aramaic Bible in Plain English “And you shall not be afraid of those who kill the body that are not able to kill the soul; rather be afraid of him who can destroy soul and body in Gehenna.”

NASB 1995 “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

So... destroy seems rather definitive to me. Certainly seems to be to suggest those that had a mortal body and a soul can be destroyed. As in gone forever.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Ages have beginning and ending points, so scripture in Revelation 14:11 is not speaking of perpetual torment in the afterlife of eternity on the planet or elsewhere. It was speaking of continual torment going on without ceasing during the day and night. This would last until the ends of those ages Paul spoke of had been completed (the ends of the ages that had arrived for that first-century generation).
Well your lack of understanding greek shows.

Aion is the word used for immortal or eternal for they had no specific word for eternal like we do. It was considered a non ending age (aion).


but as in Rev. when they use the phraise aion to aion it is to be shown it is a non ending torment. Dead people do not suffer torment.
 

Jack

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Belief in Hell is not required for everlasting residency therein. Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.
 

Ziggy

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In spite of all the NT warnings???

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
yes
 

Jack

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You can't just pick the parts of the NT that you like and be Christian! That's a sure road to Hell fire.

Exact same Greek Word EVERLASTING! Do you believe in EVERLASTING life?

Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."
 

Jack

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"And there is no definitive clarity in the bible."

There sure is!

Matthew 5:22
Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
 

Red Baker

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Should I get into this thread? I just glanced over most of the posts, and see several different opinions~and most are just that...opinions without very much biblical support.

1. What we do know is this: There is no present hellfire where the wicked go at death and suffer in that fire as long as God is God~Luke 16 will not support this and truly that's the only scriptures folks go to to support such a doctrine that truly goes against so many scriptures. Luke 16 is a parable and can be proven to be with no problem. a present hellfire is a RCC doctrine that supports their wicked doctrine of purgatory which brought $$$$$$ into their church during the dark ages.

2. The wages of sin is death, not suffering world without end, as long as God is God. So many scriptures will be provided as we go along.

3. Jesus paid for the sins of his people, and that payment was death, not suffering in hellfire world without end, as long as God is God. Those folk who believe that the wicked must paid for their sins in hellfire for all eternity reject Jesus' payment for sin~more on this later.

4. There is a lake of fire where the wicked will be cast into and there perish just as the word of God overall teaches. John 3:16 and many other places. The lake of fire is the second death for the wicked who did not have part in the first resurrection which is a spiritual rebirth.

5. We even know where the lake of fire will be, the scriptures reveal this to us:

This present world shall be destroyed by FIRE........ fervent heat and all things therein including the wicked shall be destroy after the Great White Throne Judgment. Destroyed once by water, the next time by fire!

It was Augustine that said: "If God created man out of nothing, then he can return him back to nothing"~ and he will.

I know that there will be some replies and I'll answer each and everyone, the Lord willing.
 
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Red Baker

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An unsaved person lives in hell,
Well your posts is incorrect, yet you do have a small truth within it.

Proverbs 23:14​


“Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.”
What is the salvation from hell in this proverb? This cannot literally mean the lake of fire, or eternal life would depend on child discipline, not the grace of God. But hell is also used metaphorically for trouble, destruction, and death (Ps 16:10; 18:5; 86:13; 116:3; Is 5:14; 28:15; Jonah 2:2). Here is a dysfunctional and troubled life leading to a premature death, either by accident, crime, revenge, or capital punishment. A salvation indeed!
 
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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Should I get into this thread? I just glanced over most of the posts, and see several different opinions~and most are just that...opinions without very much biblical support.

Why not.

Opinions are based upon what one sees, reads, and believes they say. You can be just as wrong as the rest of us.
1. What we do know is this: There is no present hellfire where the wicked go at death and suffer in that fire as long as God is God~Luke 16 will not support this and truly that's the only scriptures folks go to to support such a doctrine that truly goes against so many scriptures. Luke 16 is a parable and can be proven to be with no problem. a present hellfire is a RCC doctrine that supports their wicked doctrine of purgatory which brought $$$$$$ into their church during the dark ages.

2. The wages of sin is death, not suffering world without end, as long as God is God. So many scriptures will be provided as we go along.

3. Jesus paid for the sins of his people, and that payment was death, not suffering in hellfire world without end, as long as God is God. Those folk who believe that the wicked must paid for their sins in hellfire for all eternity reject Jesus' payment for sin~more on this later.

4. There is a lake of fire where the wicked will be cast into and there perish just as the word of God overall teaches. John 3:16 and many other places. The lake of fire is the second death for the wicked who did not have part in the first resurrection which is a spiritual rebirth.

5. We even know where the lake of fire will be, the scriptures reveal this to us:


This present world shall be destroyed by FIRE........ fervent heat and all things therein including the wicked shall be destroy after the Great White Throne Judgment. Destroyed once by water, the next time by fire!

It was Augustine that said: "If God created man out of nothing, then he can return him back to nothing"~ and he will.

I know that there will be some replies and I'll answer each and everyone, the Lord willing.
 
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Jack

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The rich man died but was quite alive in the fire.

Luke 16

19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Hades (and everyone in it) and Death will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Hell) and be destroyed. This is an event, the second death and one in the same event as 2 Peter 3:10, when the first heavens and first earth are also destroyed. Then we see the New Jerusalem, a new heaven and earth together. No more sun or moon, no more night. This happens after the Millennial Kingdom.
 

Jack

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Hades (and everyone in it) and Death will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Hell) and be destroyed. This is an event, the second death and one in the same event as 2 Peter 3:10, when the first heavens and first earth are also destroyed. Then we see the New Jerusalem, a new heaven and earth together. No more sun or moon, no more night. This happens after the Millennial Kingdom.
"Death" NEVER means a person ceases to exist in the Bible. And convincing people that there is no eternal Hell fire is just another road to Hell fire!

Rev 20 "they will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER" in the Lake of Fire.
 

Ziggy

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You can't just pick the parts of the NT that you like and be Christian! That's a sure road to Hell fire.

Exact same Greek Word EVERLASTING! Do you believe in EVERLASTING life?

Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."
I'm not picking and choosing, I'm just looking at it from a different perspective.
Where you see fire, I see a purification process.
Zec 13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Everlasting is also a period of time. You go back through the OT and the old covenant and the priesthood were for everlasting.
Meaning it lasted throughout the generations until a change needed to be made.
So everlasting doesn't mean permanent. It means enduring.

What is the reason God sends prophets to nations?

God is eternal, God is permanent.
When people begin to forget God, he sends them prophets to remind them.. I'm here.
And the rememberance will lasr for everlasting generations, until they they begin to forget again.

These days are scary days. There is a whole generation of people that don't know God. They make fun of people who profess they do know God. They say things like, oh, you believe there's a guy in the clouds blah blah blah..
God will hold them accountable.. anyways..
As time goes by this forgetfulness will become more noticable, by the evidence of lawlessness increasing.
This is that darkness that can be felt.
Exo 10:21
And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
It's the deepest despair mankind can find itself in with no hope in the world.
Because there is only hope in God. And a world without God has no hope.

These are the times when God's sends messengers, angels, prophets.. whoever, into the world to revive the momories of those who've
forgotten.

So to me everlasting can only be applied to God alone. Because he alone exists for all eternity.
While we are alive on the earth, this time we have is only everlasting until we die.
After this life we are told we enter into a new life. One with God or one without God.
Right now there are a lot of people in the world without God. I consider this everlasting punishment, until, they find God or God finds them. Then they are translated into everlasting life for however their life lasts on earth knowing God.
For some this punishment, we see is punishment, because we know the love of God, we know his peace, his comfort, his joy. Life.
And we see people living in despair, hopelessness, anger, greed, and to those who know God this is punishment. Death.

You are as a seed that is planted which has yet to bud. Your feet are solid on the ground, your wings are still untested.

One of these days you will have an aha moment. When the carnal world meets the spiritual world and your eyes and heart will be set on higher things and a new and deeper, higher, wider, longer, understanding.
Some people afraid to spread there wings because they are afraid of using their imagination which God gave man to inquire about spiritual things that we can't see. Some people abuse this gift for their own benefit, but God gave it to us for understanding Him.

There is only one verse I have found where imagination is used in a good sense:
1Ch 29:18
O LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, our fathers, keep this for ever in the imagination of the thoughts of the heart of thy people, and prepare their heart unto thee:
Every other verse regarding imagination has to do with evil hearts and bad intentions.

Imagination isn't evil when you try to picture in your mind, what does heaven look like? What would a perfect world look like?
You need to imagine in your mind what it looks like to remove the old man and to walk in the new man.
You form an image in your mind what this might look like. You meditate on the things of God.

God tells us:
Isa 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
You have to reach higher as a new bud reaches for the sun, like a bird that learns to fly.

And there some that say oh that sounds new agey, or esoteric, or whatever words they use to keep you down and clip your wings.

Consider the conversation Jesus had with Nicodemus. Nicodemus was the seed in the ground. Jesus is the bird that soars.

There is the bread you eat, and there is the bread which is the Word of God. Both do the same thing, they fill you with nourishment.
One is carnal and earthy and fills your stomach. The other is spiritual and light and fills your heart and mind.

Everlasting is both carnal and spiritual. One lasts your lifetime, or a generation, or many generations.
The other belongs to God permanently.

And that we may know him. Not only in this life, but that which is to come.
I don't know what is on the other side of this life. But I can imagine what it could be like.
And I have hope and not despair. I live in the light and not the darkness. I once was dead but am now alive.
Glory to God!
Amen

Hugs
 

Jack

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I'm not picking and choosing, I'm just looking at it from a different perspective.
Where you see fire, I see a purification process.
Zec 13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Everlasting is also a period of time. You go back through the OT and the old covenant and the priesthood were for everlasting.
Meaning it lasted throughout the generations until a change needed to be made.
So everlasting doesn't mean permanent. It means enduring.

What is the reason God sends prophets to nations?

God is eternal, God is permanent.
When people begin to forget God, he sends them prophets to remind them.. I'm here.
And the rememberance will lasr for everlasting generations, until they they begin to forget again.

These days are scary days. There is a whole generation of people that don't know God. They make fun of people who profess they do know God. They say things like, oh, you believe there's a guy in the clouds blah blah blah..
God will hold them accountable.. anyways..
As time goes by this forgetfulness will become more noticable, by the evidence of lawlessness increasing.
This is that darkness that can be felt.
Exo 10:21
And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
It's the deepest despair mankind can find itself in with no hope in the world.
Because there is only hope in God. And a world without God has no hope.

These are the times when God's sends messengers, angels, prophets.. whoever, into the world to revive the momories of those who've
forgotten.

So to me everlasting can only be applied to God alone. Because he alone exists for all eternity.
While we are alive on the earth, this time we have is only everlasting until we die.
After this life we are told we enter into a new life. One with God or one without God.
Right now there are a lot of people in the world without God. I consider this everlasting punishment, until, they find God or God finds them. Then they are translated into everlasting life for however their life lasts on earth knowing God.
For some this punishment, we see is punishment, because we know the love of God, we know his peace, his comfort, his joy. Life.
And we see people living in despair, hopelessness, anger, greed, and to those who know God this is punishment. Death.

You are as a seed that is planted which has yet to bud. Your feet are solid on the ground, your wings are still untested.

One of these days you will have an aha moment. When the carnal world meets the spiritual world and your eyes and heart will be set on higher things and a new and deeper, higher, wider, longer, understanding.
Some people afraid to spread there wings because they are afraid of using their imagination which God gave man to inquire about spiritual things that we can't see. Some people abuse this gift for their own benefit, but God gave it to us for understanding Him.

There is only one verse I have found where imagination is used in a good sense:
1Ch 29:18
O LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, our fathers, keep this for ever in the imagination of the thoughts of the heart of thy people, and prepare their heart unto thee:
Every other verse regarding imagination has to do with evil hearts and bad intentions.

Imagination isn't evil when you try to picture in your mind, what does heaven look like? What would a perfect world look like?
You need to imagine in your mind what it looks like to remove the old man and to walk in the new man.
You form an image in your mind what this might look like. You meditate on the things of God.

God tells us:
Isa 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
You have to reach higher as a new bud reaches for the sun, like a bird that learns to fly.

And there some that say oh that sounds new agey, or esoteric, or whatever words they use to keep you down and clip your wings.

Consider the conversation Jesus had with Nicodemus. Nicodemus was the seed in the ground. Jesus is the bird that soars.

There is the bread you eat, and there is the bread which is the Word of God. Both do the same thing, they fill you with nourishment.
One is carnal and earthy and fills your stomach. The other is spiritual and light and fills your heart and mind.

Everlasting is both carnal and spiritual. One lasts your lifetime, or a generation, or many generations.
The other belongs to God permanently.

And that we may know him. Not only in this life, but that which is to come.
I don't know what is on the other side of this life. But I can imagine what it could be like.
And I have hope and not despair. I live in the light and not the darkness. I once was dead but am now alive.
Glory to God!
Amen

Hugs
You're totally ignoring the NT Scriptures I quoted. Anyone who leads others to Hell fire will join them in Hell.
 

Ziggy

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Well your posts is incorrect, yet you do have a small truth within it.


What is the salvation from hell in this proverb? This cannot literally mean the lake of fire, or eternal life would depend on child discipline, not the grace of God. But hell is also used metaphorically for trouble, destruction, and death (Ps 16:10; 18:5; 86:13; 116:3; Is 5:14; 28:15; Jonah 2:2). Here is a dysfunctional and troubled life leading to a premature death, either by accident, crime, revenge, or capital punishment. A salvation indeed!
most of my posts are always metaphorical.
I know that confuses a lot of people. But my feet are on the ground and my head is in the clouds.
So sometimes I might sound confusing. And somethings are hard to put into words. Barriers are everywhere.

So metaphorically speaking..
When we are baptised we go to a watery grave such as was in Noah's day.
When we are baptised with the Holy Spirit we go through the Lake of fire where the old man is turned to dust and the new man is being purified from all the evil ways and thoughts he left behind.

Hell is the final resting spot for the physical man in the grave. And Heaven is the final resting spot for the spiritual man in God.

My feet on the ground, physical. My head in the clouds, spiritual.
Hugs