The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

[bbyrd009]

even though the path used to derive it appears to be off.

i am not interested in judging anyone's path, but yikes already. Imo this all starts from the "belief" that an Angry God needed to be appeased, and it just runs straight downhill from there. God did not need Jesus to come and die on the cross to make you acceptable to Him.

 

[bbyrd009]

So, speaking generally, i guess the path is now "Come to God in fear, believe Jesus did it all, let the same liars who convinced you of that baptise you and introduce you to the 'Holy Ghost' via their...misguided notion of Speaking in Tongues, enter Promised Land?"

 

[KBCid]

So, speaking generally, i guess the path is now "Come to God in fear, believe Jesus did it all, let the same liars who convinced you of that baptise you and introduce you to the 'Holy Ghost' via their...misguided notion of Speaking in Tongues, enter Promised Land?"

Yes the wide path of the tradition of men.
Yes you to can be saved!!!!! believe only and God will do it all for you.... and don't forget that 10% for the collection plate on your way out.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes the wide path of the tradition of men.
Yes you to can be saved!!!!! believe only and God will do it all for you.... and don't forget that 10% for the collection plate on your way out.

well, you get what you pay for, i guess.

 

[KBCid]

i am not interested in judging anyone's path, but yikes already. Imo this all starts from the "belief" that an Angry God needed to be appeased, and it just runs straight downhill from there. God did not need Jesus to come and die on the cross to make you acceptable to Him.

No God didn't need to send Jesus to make people acceptable to him as he could have just created automatons from the beginning but Christ is needed if God wants you of your own free will to choose his way since no one can see the Father face to face an intermediary was needed to convey the Fathers image to those who would hope be like him.

 

[christiang]

Christiang said : "No one is "sinless", because all have sinned. Yet just because all have sinned, in the past, it does not mean that it is not possible to become perfected, and never sin again, from the present and into the future. Perfection is possible by the baptism of the holy spirit. This is scriptural. It is your teaching that is heresy, because you are essentially permitting sin, in the false teaching that it is not possible to stop sinning."

bbyrd I liked that post because in its essence there is truth even though the path used to derive it appears to be off.
It is a fact that all have sinned... no big revelation there
it is also a fact that it is possible to attain perfection with the help of God's spirit
however the error in his post is the belief that the HS makes one perfect at baptism. This is error as perfection can only be attained as the HS guides the life of the believer AND the believer submits to the HS direction. As has been shown in scripture it is possible for one to attain a holy state and yet backslide to their previous sinful way of existence and then that state is worse than if they had never attained sinlessness since there is no more forgiveness at that point.
What happens at the baptism IF one is worthy is that all previous sins are forgiven and the believer has a clean slate to go forward on but the story doesn't end there. Moving forward you have to learn and develop the relationship of submission to God's spirit as it directs you to attain and remain sinless.

The holy spirit does indeed perfect a man, hence,

For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the ones having been sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14 [ABP])

to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. (Romans 15:16)

The sanctification by the holy spirit occurs at the "baptism of the holy spirit", which is also called being "born of God", or "engendered of God", or "born of the Spirit",

We know that every one being engendered of God does not sin; but the one engendered of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (I John 5:18 [ABP])

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9 [KJV])

 

[KBCid]

The holy spirit does indeed perfect a man,

never said it didn't. What I did say is that it is not an instant change. The HS is a guide to help the believer to attain the perfection that could not be attained by the flesh alone.

The sanctification by the holy spirit occurs at the "baptism of the holy spirit", which is also called being "born of God", or "engendered of God", or "born of the Spirit",

That is your opinion.
Show me "baptism of the holy spirit" in the scripture translation you adhere to.

 

[bbyrd009]

No God didn't need to send Jesus to make people acceptable to him as he could have just created automatons from the beginning

God didn't seem to have any probs with Adam and Eve being naked, and they were not automatons

but Christ is needed if God wants you of your own free will to choose his way since no one can see the Father face to face an intermediary was needed to convey the Fathers image to those who would hope be like him.

hmm.

 

[bbyrd009]

We know that every one being engendered of God does not sin; but the one engendered of God keeps himself,

how do you square this with calling your elders idiots though, one might ask

 

[christiang]

never said it didn't. What I did say is that it is not an instant change. The HS is a guide to help the believer to attain the perfection that could not be attained by the flesh alone.



That is your opinion.
Show me "baptism of the holy spirit" in the scripture translation you adhere to.

it is an instant change, hence,

And spirit of the LORD shall spring upon you, and you shall prophesy with them, and you shall turn into another man. (1 Samuel 10:6 [ABP])

This was an example of a man becoming a different man when the spirit of God entered inside him. Just as demons have authority to enter into men and take control of their bodies, or even alter their minds, so does the holy spirit have the ability to alter the mind of a person when he enters the body, and cause sanctification.

 

[christiang]

never said it didn't. What I did say is that it is not an instant change. The HS is a guide to help the believer to attain the perfection that could not be attained by the flesh alone.



That is your opinion.
Show me "baptism of the holy spirit" in the scripture translation you adhere to.

I outline the baptism of the holy spirit here Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God and here Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Power, Prophesying, New Languages, Signs, Miracles, Wonders | Wisdom of God .

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I outline the baptism of the holy spirit here Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God and here Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Power, Prophesying, New Languages, Signs, Miracles, Wonders | Wisdom of God .

I read your study and have a question.
You included:

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation? (Hebrews 1:14 [NIV])

KJV version: [14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

1 Corinthians 11:10 KJV
[10] For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Would that be the power of these ministering spirits that are sent forth for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

"Ought not the woman have power on her head because of the angels" power on her head...who is the "woman's" head?

Matthew 4:11 KJV
[11] Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Mark 1:13 KJV
[13] And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.


Speaking of "woman"? What woman?

1 Timothy 2:13-15 KJV
[13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve. [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. [15] Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

What woman is saved through "childbearing"? How is "she" saved through "childbearing"?

 

[bbyrd009]

I outline

and wadr you are what, 25 years old or somewhere around there, right


and ps, that will be perceived as a deflection, not an answer.
1 verse of Scripture is all we are asking for

 

[bbyrd009]

What woman is saved through "childbearing"? How is "she" saved through "childbearing"?

in learning the concept of service to others, albeit somewhat vicariously, in sacrificing for her children? Dunno.

 

[christiang]

I read your study and have a question.
You included:

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation? (Hebrews 1:14 [NIV])

KJV version: [14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

1 Corinthians 11:10 KJV
[10] For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Would that be the power of these ministering spirits that are sent forth for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

"Ought not the woman have power on her head because of the angels" power on her head...who is the "woman's" head?

Matthew 4:11 KJV
[11] Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Mark 1:13 KJV
[13] And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.


Speaking of "woman"? What woman?

1 Timothy 2:13-15 KJV
[13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve. [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. [15] Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

What woman is saved through "childbearing"? How is "she" saved through "childbearing"?

These are good questions. Not all women ought to cover their heads, only wives, because the tzniut is a symbol of authority over her own head, meaning she has come under submission to a man, meaning she is married. Just like in American culture you have wedding rings to symbolize marriage, in scripture, the head covering is the symbol of marriage. It is spoken of in the Law of God, and it is a mandatory tradition, hence why Paul spoke of it and commanded it. I have a study on this here, The Tzniut, Wives and Head Coverings | Wisdom of God . Now, why is it because of angels that wives must cover their heads? Because they are in constant watch, looking for any fault. Wives that do not cover their hears when praying or prophesying will duly be noticed by angels.

Next, the reason that women are delivered through childbearing is because all the elect must suffer, just as Christ suffered. I have another study on this here, Suffering, Persecution, Martyrdom, and the Discipline of God | Wisdom of God . So, while men suffer by being persecuted for spreading the gospel and teaching, wives, on the other hand, who cannot teach, suffer by child bearing, which is their way of partaking in the suffering we must all partake in to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

Wives that do not cover their heads when praying or prophesying will duly be noticed by angels.

and? then what would happen?

(i always meant to ask a preacher this, never have tho)
(no wrong answers here; i have no clue)

 

[KBCid]

it is an instant change, hence,
And spirit of the LORD shall spring upon you, and you shall prophesy with them, and you shall turn into another man. (1 Samuel 10:6 [ABP])QUOTE]

this is an opinion.
Now provide the answer for this;
Show me "baptism of the holy spirit" in the scripture translation you adhere to.

 

[KBCid]

I outline the baptism of the holy spirit here Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God and here Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Power, Prophesying, New Languages, Signs, Miracles, Wonders | Wisdom of God .

I asked for the biblical reference you are basing your opinion on, not a redirect to a man made writing.

 

[christiang]

Its found in many places, here are a few,

For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 1:5 [NIV])

I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." (Mark 1:8 [ESV])

 

[mjrhealth]

ah well seems to me cg et al have found some shortcut? Why do...ah, there is no doing even there; why believe all that when i can believe "it is finished" and Jesus already did everything necessary for me to...what, i guess 'go to heaven when i die' or some other ball of crap that someone thinks they have found in Scripture?

christiang is perfect/sinless in his own eyes right now, dunno if you noticed or not.

bit like this man

Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Cant forget that one day when PM admitted to not being perfect, it was like the whole of heaven rejoiced in that brief moment of humility, but sadly te hSDA's all have teh same script burned into their minds.