The law that "was added because of transgressions" cannot be referring to the commandments.

[Prayer Warrior]

When Paul claims that the "law which was added because of transgressions" have been done away with, he can't be referring to the commandments themselves because one cannot transgress laws which never existed in the first place. Furthermore, he points out how this takes place: "Those who walk after the Spirit do not fulfill the lust of the flesh". When there is no sin, there is no necessity to have laws dealing with transgressions anymore. This is the condition under which those who enter into the New Covenent must find themselves.

It's not that Christians no longer sin, but we can choose not to sin by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. As we walk by the Spirit, we do not sin, but we must choose to submit ourselves to the Spirit by grace through faith. However, as part of the sanctification process, in submission we must "mortify deeds of the flesh" through the Spirit.

Romans 8:12-13--Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Verse 25 of Romans 8 sums up the passages of Romans 8 that deal with walking by the Spirit. The Amplified Bible (Classic) translates and explains Romans 8:25 in this way: If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit we have our life in God, let us go forward walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]

 

[Taken]

"Those who walk after the Spirit do not fulfill the lust of the flesh". When there is no sin, there is no necessity to have laws dealing with transgressions anymore. This is the condition under which those who enter into the New Covenent must find themselves.

Agree.

No one can be under the New Covenant, and continue to sin.

Agree.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Rnmomof7]

I think it is PATHETIC on your part to argue with the Holy Spirit. Those who do so will not receive further light. To be cleansed of all sin at the time of justification and the New Birth does not mean that you do not need further cleansing after that. But you are blind to that. Wilfully blind.

When Jesus died , did He not know every sin He was dying for?

 

[Enoch111]

When Jesus died , did He not know every sin He was dying for?

Since Jesus is God, He did indeed know every sin that He was dying for. But that is not the point.

Christians are to examine themselves daily, confess their sins, repent, and seek forgiveness for their present sins (as noted by John below).

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:8,9)

 

[farouk]

Confession is a healthy part of the Christian walk; but there is no question of the true believer losing his or her salvation.

 

[Truther]

There is no effective difference between laws which prohibit theft, murder, adultery, etc., and those same laws which have been codified. Codification of laws simply makes them easier to classify, reference, etc.

When Paul claims that the "law which was added because of transgressions" have been done away with, he can't be referring to the commandments themselves because one cannot transgress laws which never existed in the first place. Furthermore, he points out how this takes place: "Those who walk after the Spirit do not fulfill the lust of the flesh". When there is no sin, there is no necessity to have laws dealing with transgressions anymore. This is the condition under which those who enter into the New Covenent must find themselves.

No one can be under the New Covenant, and continue to sin. The New Covenant only covers sins committed under the Old Covenant.

When Paul refers to "the handwriting of ordinances that were against us", he is explicitly referring to Deuteronomy 31:26 which points out the distinction between the commandments which are INSIDE the Ark which are chisled into STONE, and the laws which are BESIDE the Ark, and are written in a SCROLL. When Israel sinned, the penalty was found in the scroll, but under the New Covenant, no one sins, therefore the scroll is now redundant. No one can be under the curse if they no longer sin. This is only possible for those who have been given a new heart per Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26; Hebrews 8:9,10 All other believers must continue to rely upon Christ's sacrifice to cover their sin until they are given a new heart as well.

Whenever Paul refers to the law being done away with it is always with regards to establishing righteousness(justification), or the penalty, or curse of the law, and that can only come about through Christ's faith operating in the new creature rather than relying upon one's own will or effort. So Christ and Paul are pointing out that there are two ways to carry out God's will. The Old method which entailed relying upone one's own will and effort verses the New method which is relying upon Christ's faith which cannot fail.

The Law is only done away for the born again saint, not the sinner.

The Law is a schoolmaster to bring sinners to Christ.

There is no summer off for sinners.

 

[shnarkle]

The Law is only done away for the born again saint, not the sinner.

The Law is a schoolmaster to bring sinners to Christ.

There is no summer off for sinners.

If you are referring to the commandments, No. False.

If you are referring to the law that was added because of transgressions, then yes, true. By neglecting to specify what you are referring to, confusion is sown in the minds of the ignorant.

 

[Truther]

If you are referring to the commandments, No. False.

If you are referring to the law that was added because of transgressions, then yes, true. By neglecting to specify what you are referring to, confusion is sown in the minds of the ignorant.

The Law of God officially started in the garden. It still goes on today. Only saints are free from it, if they behave like saints.

 

[shnarkle]

The Law of God officially started in the garden. It still goes on today. Only saints are free from it, if they behave like saints.

You're not saying much of anything. It's completely ambiguous. The law commands one to refrain from adultery, murder, theft, etc. So if one is free from it, what is that even supposed to mean? They are now free to murder, fornicate and steal? One would presume that is ridiculous, but you don't define what you mean by this claim.

There was a law added, and Paul is clear to point out that it was the law of sacrifices. It was the penalty for transgressing the law. Those who no longer sin have no need for that law of transgressions anymore. That doesn't do away with the commandments themselves.

The saints of God are explicitly freed from the law of sin in the flesh, not God's commandments. God's commandments are life itself. To keep God's commandments is to live. To sin is to die. The saints of God are freed from the "curse" of the law. They are freed from the penalty of the law, but they are free now to serve God's law in spirit rather than to fail to serve in the flesh.

 

[Truther]

You're not saying much of anything. It's completely ambiguous. The law commands one to refrain from adultery, murder, theft, etc. So if one is free from it, what is that even supposed to mean? They are now free to murder, fornicate and steal? One would presume that is ridiculous, but you don't define what you mean by this claim.

There was a law added, and Paul is clear to point out that it was the law of sacrifices. It was the penalty for transgressing the law. Those who no longer sin have no need for that law of transgressions anymore. That doesn't do away with the commandments themselves.

The saints of God are explicitly freed from the law of sin in the flesh, not God's commandments. God's commandments are life itself. To keep God's commandments is to live. To sin is to die. The saints of God are freed from the "curse" of the law. They are freed from the penalty of the law, but they are free now to serve God's law in spirit rather than to fail to serve in the flesh.

You are free from the Law by walking in the Spirit.

If you walk in the Spirit you will not be subject to the Law, nor it’s judgements.

This means having the baptism of the Holy Ghost and being led by the Holy Ghost, as Christ was per Luke 4:1.

This means we are to walk in the light as He is in the light.

If we are free from sin, we are free from the Law.

Sin is defined by the Law...if we sin, we are judged by the Law, if we are Spirit led, we are free.

If we backslide, we backslide back to our schoolmaster.

When we are restored by the Holy Ghost, we leave our schoolmaster.

Our schoolmaster is there to discipline us if we cut up in class.

 

[brakelite]

Since Jesus is God, He did indeed know every sin that He was dying for. But that is not the point.

Christians are to examine themselves daily, confess their sins, repent, and seek forgiveness for their present sins (as noted by John below).

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:8,9)

More than just know every sin. Every sin was laid upon Him. He experienced everything that the sinner would experience if without Christ. The guilt, shame, the burden of estrangement from God, all made worse by His own hatred of the sin He carried. And of course the second death.

 

[shnarkle]

The law commands one to refrain from adultery, murder, theft, etc. So if one is free from it, what is that even supposed to mean? They are now free to murder, fornicate and steal?

If the answer is "yes", then please explain how you come to this conclusion that we are free from God's commandments forbidding theft, murder, etc.

If the answer is "no", then why don't you clarify the fact that you're not referring to the commandments?

 

[Truther]

The law commands one to refrain from adultery, murder, theft, etc. So if one is free from it, what is that even supposed to mean? They are now free to murder, fornicate and steal?

If the answer is "yes", then please explain how you come to this conclusion that we are free from God's commandments forbidding theft, murder, etc.

If the answer is "no", then why don't you clarify the fact that you're not referring to the commandments?

Is it the Holy Ghost that teaches you and I not to be naughty or the Law?

Which source is your source for council?

 

[shnarkle]

Is it the Holy Ghost that teaches you and I not to be naughty or the Law?

Which source is your source for council?

They aren't mutually exclusive. The Spirit confirms the witness of the law. The law and spirit are two witnesses to the truth. If not, where do they contradict each other?

 

[Truther]

They aren't mutually exclusive. The Spirit confirms the witness of the law. The law and spirit are two witnesses to the truth. If not, where do they contradict each other?

They don’t contradict. The Law is needed to drive sinners to Christ. It is their schoolmaster. After sinners come to Christ, they are no longer under the Law/schoolmaster, correct?

 

[shnarkle]

They don’t contradict. The Law is needed to drive sinners to Christ. It is their schoolmaster. After sinners come to Christ, they are no longer under the Law/schoolmaster, correct?

You're still not defining your terms. Your posts are all so vague as to be meaningless. There is the commandments; all 613 of them, and then there is the law "that was added because of transgressions"; "the schoolmaster";" the curse"; "the penalty"; "the handwriting of ordinances that were against us"; "the sacrificial system".

The former is established while the latter is done away with if one is a new creation and no longer sins. No sin, means no need for a sacrificial system. The sacrificial system only covers sins committed under the Old Covenant. There are no sins committed under the New Covenant, and they can't be covered under the New Covenant as there is "no more sacrifice for sin" under the New Covenant.

 

[Truther]

You're still not defining your terms. Your posts are all so vague as to be meaningless. There is the commandments; all 613 of them, and then there is the law "that was added because of transgressions"; "the schoolmaster";" the curse"; "the penalty"; "the handwriting of ordinances that were against us"; "the sacrificial system".

The former is established while the latter is done away with if one is a new creation and no longer sins. No sin, means no need for a sacrificial system. The sacrificial system only covers sins committed under the Old Covenant. There are no sins committed under the New Covenant, and they can't be covered under the New Covenant as there is "no more sacrifice for sin" under the New Covenant.

Commandments are laws. You count 613?

You only count some given Moses.

Abraham was given more prior to Moses, now how many are there?

Adam and Eve were given one.

Noah and his decedents were given some.

1 Cor 14 quotes the Law as not being in the 1st 5 books.

Jesus quoted the Law as not being in the 1st 5 books.

New age theology teaches the Law is confined to the 1st 5 books.

Per 2 Cor 3, the entire OT is the Law.

You should check it out for yourself.

 

[shnarkle]

Commandments are laws. You count 613?

You only count some given Moses.

Abraham was given more prior to Moses, now how many are there?

Adam and Eve were given one.

Noah and his decedents were given some.

1 Cor 14 quotes the Law as not being in the 1st 5 books.

Jesus quoted the Law as not being in the 1st 5 books.

New age theology teaches the Law is confined to the 1st 5 books.

Per 2 Cor 3, the entire OT is the Law.

You should check it out for yourself.

Your claims are unfounded. Prove it. You're also ignoring my questions, AGAIN. No one is ignorant of your transparent attempts to deflect from answering my questions. The laws given to Adam, Abraham, etc. are the same laws given to Moses. Add them all up, and you get 613. Then there are the laws that were 'added because of transgressions". The penalty for transgressing God's commandments are the handwriting of ordinances that were against those who transgressed God's commandments (See Deut. 31:26 which points out the book or scroll that was placed BESIDE the Ark in contrast to the TABLETS place INSIDE the Ark) This is what Paul is explicitly referring to. Learn the difference, and then answer my question.

 

[Truther]

Your claims are unfounded. Prove it. You're also ignoring my questions, AGAIN. No one is ignorant of your transparent attempts to deflect from answering my questions. The laws given to Adam, Abraham, etc. are the same laws given to Moses. Add them all up, and you get 613. Then there are the laws that were 'added because of transgressions". The penalty for transgressing God's commandments are the handwriting of ordinances that were against those who transgressed God's commandments (See Deut. 31:26 which points out the book or scroll that was placed BESIDE the Ark in contrast to the TABLETS place INSIDE the Ark) This is what Paul is explicitly referring to. Learn the difference, and then answer my question.

Was the Law given to Adam in the garden a suggestion or a Law?

 

[shnarkle]

Was the Law given to Adam in the garden a suggestion or a Law?

Why are you avoiding my question? Be fruitful and multiply is one of the 613 commandments of the Mosaic law.

1 Cor. 14 instructs women to be under obedience to their husbands which is a reference to Genesis 3:16

If you continue to ignore my points rather than address them, I can only assume you prefer to be ignored as well.