The Limited Aspect of Christian Love - "I love you, but I don't like you."
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My wife and I have had discussions on this topic as well. I see it as the next HUGE hurdle the church needs to get over.
I look forward to reading the story on your experience. (on pins and needles)
/
The best thing is to not ways people describe you as deter you from looking towards God in faith, and loving God first, and loving others along the way... Are you gonna like and agree with what one may say, think or believe? No. Does that mean to condemn and mistreat them, look down on them? No. If it involves a crime does it need to be reported? Yes. Can you love a person who is a murderer, sexual deviant, homosexual, child predator, constantly lying over and over, manupulator, how about people who pretend to like you and then talk behind your back?
What did Jesus do, when it came to all these things? The only ones he ever seemingly was hard on was the religious zealots in his day and age. As because of Jesus we can forgive people who sin against us. Therefore, it is possible to love God and love others, and if you are able to discern "are my thoughts coming from my fleshly mind, or my new spiritual mind in Christ.
In the end, I really dont care if people like me or not, they will or they wont, the best thing to do is abide in Christ and allow his spirit to come through and to move you in faith to have love in the agape sense.
At one point me and ol Steven would go back and forth, and because of this tension like a tightrope between the space of two mountain. I would get mad at him ... I aint so much mad at him anymore though... now I dont care what he thinks of me anymore cause I try to talked to him before but cause of the communication and the way it went it broke the love down to hatred, thankful to be calm and cool about it now, and just abide in Christ and share, love, and just be patient and wait. Im sure I have hated a lot of people in my life, and even desire to kill however am thankful that Yahava held those actions back.
What did Jesus do, when it came to all these things? The only ones he ever seemingly was hard on was the religious zealots in his day and age. As because of Jesus we can forgive people who sin against us. Therefore, it is possible to love God and love others, and if you are able to discern "are my thoughts coming from my fleshly mind, or my new spiritual mind in Christ.
In the end, I really dont care if people like me or not, they will or they wont, the best thing to do is abide in Christ and allow his spirit to come through and to move you in faith to have love in the agape sense.
At one point me and ol Steven would go back and forth, and because of this tension like a tightrope between the space of two mountain. I would get mad at him ... I aint so much mad at him anymore though... now I dont care what he thinks of me anymore cause I try to talked to him before but cause of the communication and the way it went it broke the love down to hatred, thankful to be calm and cool about it now, and just abide in Christ and share, love, and just be patient and wait. Im sure I have hated a lot of people in my life, and even desire to kill however am thankful that Yahava held those actions back.
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
So,Bro, it looks like "LAMBANO" is now as hard to find as KILROY was.....on the WWII monument last week when I went to Washington DC on the Honor Flight with 150 other Vets.
From POST 37:
QUESTION ONE
Where are you and your wife with 'our' 1st conclusion "Love the SINNER but not the SIN?". Are you good with that as a working foundation to build upon? Or do we need to discuss 'that point' any further?
Part 2:
We got to Branson and our 27 YO granddaughter came with us. We meet 'Gay1' and his fiance 'Gay2'. I give G1 a hug as always. I turn to G2 who seemed to almost be cowering by our nephew. My heart felt for him, they have no idea how this next step of marriage is going to be received. My wife, granddaughter and I have the same agreement, Love the sinner don't condone the sin. Anyway G2 is not married and therefore not a relative yet. So I turn to him and offer my hand. He takes it, and I can feel his tension. That night my granddaughter asks question two. If we can't go to the wedding, can we send a gift? I said 'J' what's the difference between 'going' to the wedding or sending a wedding gift. Either way it's supporting 'a wedding'.
That decision was hard, but it was especially hard for 'J' who's grown up in a different 'day' than I was raised in, but truth does not change what sin is. She also was treated so well growing up by G1, before anything homosexual was even on the radar.
QUESTION TWO
So, where are you at with my Part 2 decision of not even sending a gift to their wedding? Would you/wife agree or disagree.
I've come to see Christian love as being committed to the wellbeing of others, and that doesn't have anything to do with personal feelings and preferences, such as "like".
Much love!
Can you separate who a person is, from what they do, or what they seem like to you?
Much love!
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
Wow, I journey alone here, so I will quit. Too bad, never even got one response from the two I asked to join. Maybe I should have opened it up to all comers. Surely someone would have stood up for 'their beliefs and hopes'.
1PE 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; 16 having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed.17 For it is better, IF IT IS the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.
As for me and my house. My decision did come from my "HEART" suffering with my first foundational platform. I am now willing "to give a defense to everyone" for where I've landed, "with a reason for the HOPE that's now in me." And I stand "with meekness and fear" before God that I truly did hear "the will of God" to the point that I'll endure the "suffering" from all those here that will disagree and "defame" my opinion now, is "doing EVIL".
Oh, well, I am continuing to write my story because everyone back home was just as stunned, with 3 trying to stick to their old religious guns to justify their shot at this problematic issue. And one of them was my brother and former elder of our church for 20 years. But I never felt any of their hearts confirm what their religious talking heads were saying. Only 2 were immediately onboard with heart and head.
1PE 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; 16 having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed.17 For it is better, IF IT IS the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.
As for me and my house. My decision did come from my "HEART" suffering with my first foundational platform. I am now willing "to give a defense to everyone" for where I've landed, "with a reason for the HOPE that's now in me." And I stand "with meekness and fear" before God that I truly did hear "the will of God" to the point that I'll endure the "suffering" from all those here that will disagree and "defame" my opinion now, is "doing EVIL".
Oh, well, I am continuing to write my story because everyone back home was just as stunned, with 3 trying to stick to their old religious guns to justify their shot at this problematic issue. And one of them was my brother and former elder of our church for 20 years. But I never felt any of their hearts confirm what their religious talking heads were saying. Only 2 were immediately onboard with heart and head.
In general, but sometimes that adage is used to justify some hateful behavior toward others outside the tribe.
/
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
I'm sure that we've seen the gamut just as you have concerning this issue. The church has justified hatred many times in its history.
I'll just post part 1 and 2 for any newcomers. Or just a reminder, because this was a while back.
Part 1:
We have had this family reunion at Branson/Silver Dollar City for 50 years, . When we arrive we always hug the whole family that comes (20-28 now) And we also hug ALL on our last goodbye, before leaving. That also included our nephew who came out of 'the homo closet' 20 years ago and is now 40. Several weeks before going to Branson this time, we found out 'Gay1' was bringing his fiance....or would that be fiancee. Wow, intrigue already.
So, my wife and I have to have a 'discussion' concerning what we recently learned from a recent church blowup on the subject. We had firmly decided you love the sinner like Jesus did, but you don't condone 'the sin' either, like Jesus did. Karen also asked me about do you go to the wedding. My wife has a bigger heart than I do, no surprise. But she also knows that I have the bigger spiritual head. I finally told her "I believe going to the wedding is condoning the sin." That was a hard decision because I do love him and always have.
QUESTION ONE
Where are you with my 1st conclusion: "Love the SINNER but not the SIN?". Are you good with that as a working foundation to build upon? Or do we need to discuss 'that point' any further?
Part 2:
We got to Branson and our 27 Y.O. granddaughter/'J' came with us. We meet 'Gay1' and his fiance 'Gay2'. I give G1 a hug as always. I turn to G2 who seemed to almost be cowering by our nephew. My heart felt for him, they have no idea how this next step of marriage is going to be received. My wife, granddaughter/'J' and I have the same agreement, Love the sinner don't condone the sin. Anyway G2 is not a relative, so I turn to him and offer my hand. He takes it, and I can feel his tension holding his hand. That night my granddaughter/'J' asks question two. If we can't go to the wedding, can we send a gift? I said 'J' what's the difference between 'going' to the wedding or sending a wedding gift? Either way it's supporting 'a wedding'.
That decision was hard, but it was especially hard for 'J' who's grown up in a different 'day' than I was raised in, but truth does not change what sin is. She also was treated so well growing up by G1, before anything homosexual was even on the radar.
QUESTION TWO
So, where are you at with my Part 2 decision of not even sending a gift to their wedding? Would you/wife agree or disagree.
Part 3:
We all go out to eat at a restaurant that night with my wife, daughter, granddaughter sitting at a table with 'Gay1 & 2' who share the same story at their table as Gay1's dad is sharing at our booth with me, my son and my grand son in law. That story was; that 'G1 & 2' have both hired to surrogates and sent sperm for the present pregnancy of their 2 children who will be born after their wedding. I'm from the sticks and I have never even heard of such a thing. I am stunned.
Next morning my wife, granddaughter and I have another discussion, after confirming the 'same conversation' was shared at both tables. My granddaughter, who also considers me the spiritual talking head of the family asks another question: "Papa, are we going to refuse to hold their babies?" My heart was pierced immediately as my mind raced to the justification of my first two conclusions. They are innocent babies, will they raise them and groom them to the sin or will they raise them to choose on their own. Will just being raised in that house, and feeling the rejection of their Papas, push them one way or the other. I finally had to answer my granddaughter and say; "I don't know what to say, I have no answer I am going to have to hear from God on this." Thank God He answered pretty quickly. And His word was; "G1 has always been 'family' and not just 'a relative'." That brief word spoke volumes to me in an instant. And I responded; "I am changing my opinion, Yes! you can go the wedding, yes you can send a gift and yes you can hold that innocent baby. And no we are not changing our opinion of what is sin." If we were to refuse their wedding and gifts we would just be treating them like relatives and why would they even 'want to' or 'let us' hold their innocent babies. The bridge of truth , to 'minister truth to them' can not carry any heavier truth, than the 'bridge of trust' can hold. That day was spent at Silver Dollar City enjoying all it had to offer, as a family with a new face of a fiancee. The next morning we were saying our goodbyes with all four points of the compass pointing to the directions of the family plus one would be going that day. We met at G1 and 2's motel door for our final goodbye. G1 and I hugged again as we always had. I then turned to G2 and opened my arms just enough to be asking the question; 'the ball is in your court.' He took a small step toward me with no hand raised to shake. I stepped forward and gave him a hug. And my heart broke again as I fell the quivering of his whole body. But this time, maybe slightly less than our first hand shake.
QUESTION THREE
So, where do you stand with my part 3 decision? Was I right, was I wrong. All I can say is I will choose this step and stand before Jesus on the day of judgment for all the words I have spoke and all of the deeds I have done and await His judgment on me.
Good rule of thumb.
Yes, if you don't support the wedding, you don't send a gift.
I like the way that played out. I agree. Good decision.
Better to feel good about what you did than to have regrets later.
This leaves an open door for communication.
Going the other way would have closed that door.
1 Peter 4:8 NIV
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
/
Its good to love always and like whenever possible but to love even when liking someone isn't the case.
Biblical love, I believe is more sacrificial than unconditional. We love in deed and in truth not just in words or feelings.
iIf your enemy is hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink.
Biblical love, I believe is more sacrificial than unconditional. We love in deed and in truth not just in words or feelings.
iIf your enemy is hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink.
Did you read the OP?
It sounds as if you do not yet grasp why liking is better than loving.
There are people we HAVE to love, but we don't like them. Like is better.
/
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
There's a part 4. But I thought I'd wait a little longer, just to see if anyone else comments before posting it. What do you think? I know you're going to love it.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Hello marks,
to love is to will the good of the other, even (and perhaps most especially) when it comes at a cost to oneself..
Happy Feast of Christ the King!
Pax et Bonum
I did read the OP. I do not agree that like is better because I see liking as just a preference in our emotions whereas biblical love is doing practical things to help others.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Yes, I believe we can.
For all of us are broken in one way or another, some more shattered than others..
do we avoid them because of the 'coping' mechanisms that they have become addicted to? Is not connecting with the lost and the broken, and serving them the way of our Master?
Yes, every person has been created in the image of God, and is deserving of the respect that that implies, regardless of how broken they may be..
Happy Feast of Christ the King!
Pax et Bonum
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