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the "little horn" is NOT "the Antichrist".

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by truthsearcher, Jun 22, 2007.

  1. RND

    RND New Member

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    (kriss;12564)
    Just as Mathew 24 talks about the Abomination being at these end times it has not occuredMat.24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. Mat 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— Mat.24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.Mat 24:17 Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Mat.24:18 Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. Mat 24:19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Mat 24:20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. Mat 24:21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. Mat 24:22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. Mat 24:23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.
    Sorry, nothing here confirms your supposition. You stated that Satan physically left the earth after Christ's crucifiction and I asked for one verse to confirm this. You have yet to provided one verse to confirm your assertion.Matthew 24 and 25 contain a dual prophecy which describe the literal destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD and the future signs of the coming of the Son of Man....There is nothing mentioned in either chapter that affirms your position.At this point I would have to conclude your assertion has yet to be proven with scripture.
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    What do you have to back up yours I have bible verses you can refuse to belief. but you have nothing but men told me it was the Pope. So if you dont want to deal with scripture but choose mens conjecture so be it.
     
  3. RND

    RND New Member

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    (kriss;12572)
    What do you have to back up yours I have bible verses you can refuse to belief.
    I have provided loads of scripture regarding this topic and even corrected some of the scripture you incorrectly atributed to a future situation that Paul was clearly atributing to his very day and age.I also showed you that scripture does not refer to one (1) antichrist but many and that these antichrist are deniers of Jesus Christ....something the RCC clearly does.
    but you have nothing but men told me it was the Pope.
    I have used scripture to demonstrate this kriss plenty of times.
    So if you dont want to deal with scripture but choose mens conjecture so be it.
    Should I consider this your mea culpa? Look kriss, I asked you that if you have another interpretations for Daniel 7:25 share it....but I have yet to see one brought to the discussion by you. It's easy to make generalities, it's another to confirm them. However, when you make an obviously incorrect statement in saying Satan left the earth physically yet stayed "spiritually" after the crucifiction you shouldn't get upset when someone calls you on it. The only "being" I know of that "left the earth" physically after the crucifiction was Jesus Christ Himself. I can confirm this position with scripture (Acts 1:9-10).
     
  4. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I know there are many antichrists and have said soyou have given nothing that proves antichrist is the Pope and if you look back at our posts I see no where you ever mention Daniel 7:25 so how did I refuse to answer what you never asked. You are very good at asking me to answer all your questions but you dont answer mine. I also never said Satan was taken to heaven I said he was restrained there. Job tells us Satan walked to and fro upon the earth.Rev. says he is restrained What is the only thing that happened, that changed so Satan could not go to and fro upon the earth to being restrainedChrist died on the cross an conquered death and sin (also names for Satan) So Satan is restrained because Christ for all intensive purposes defeated him so he is held but his spirit of lawlessness an inequity still roams the earth because Satan is not dead he is only restrained to heaven air prince of the air Then we are told he is kicked down to earth for a short time The fact is unless I present you with an scripture that says RND the Pope is not antichrist you are not going to believe it because your religion tells you otherwise. It is not my desire nor my intention to take on your religions beliefs to try and prove a point you either accept the Word or you accept what you been taught. I have discussed this in depth on this site but untill you read it as a child without all your preconcieved ideas you will never get it.
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    In chapter 12 of Revelation, John relates to us a vision he saw in heaven which will take place at the same time the abomination that causes desolation will occur on earth. Let’s read how he describes the scene.And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he [Satan] was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him (Revelation 12:7-9).So, at the appointed time, Michael will arise and fight against Satan and Satan will lose his place in heaven. Apparently, when Satan and his angels are hurled down to the earth, Michael will no longer be restraining him and Satan is able to go after the people of God without restraint. When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman [Israel] who had given birth to the male child [Jesus]. The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time , out of the serpent's reach…. Then the dragon was enraged at the woman [Israel] and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring [the Church]--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus (Revelation 12:13-17).When Michael throws Satan down to earth, Satan will become furious and pursue the destruction of Israel and the Church during the Great Tribulation. We know this is the time of the Great Tribulation because of what is happening and because John tells us how long this period of distress lasts. He says that this will be for “a time, times and half a time” which is the same expression that Daniel used when he wrote of the Great Tribulation period in Daniel 7:25 and 12:7. Therefore, we know that Michael will cast Satan down to earth at the same time of the abomination that causes desolation, when the Antichrist is revealed. In Revelation 13, John tells us even more about what happens during this time of the Great Tribulation when Satan is unrestrained. Let’s read it. Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast , and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?" The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months [3 ½ years]. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world. He, who has an ear, let him hear (Revelation 13:4-9).Lets see how John's version appears in chart form. John's VersionWe have now seen the prophecies of Paul, Daniel and John regarding what happens at the time of the abomination that causes desolation. This is the sequence of events as they have written: 1. Michael arises and throws Satan out of heaven to earth. 2. Satan gives his power to the Beast. 3. Antichrist is revealed at the abomination that causes desolation.4. The Great Tribulation begins immediately 5. Christ returns on the Day of the Lord and gathers His elect.Putting all this together, we have concluded that Michael is the one who is holding back Satan (the power of lawlessness) until the appointed time. Michael will then defeat Satan in battle and throw him and his angels down to earth. Satan’s power of lawlessness will then be unrestrained and he will turn his fury on the people of God.So now we know the mystery of all three players in Paul’s last days scenario, as it is written.1. He who is being held back - Satan2. He who is doing the holding - Michael is the restrainer !3. He who will be revealed - AntichristOnce again we see that the Bible is the best source for interpreting the Bible. The mystery regarding the identity of the one who restrains the secret power of lawlessness is clearly revealed.
     
  6. truthsearcher

    truthsearcher New Member

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    Confusion, confusion, confusion....When it comes to end-time Bible prophecies, "confusion" is all there is in the Churches of America.I doesn't have to be that way, for all that's needed is "an understanding of America's history from 1948 (the year that Israel became a nation) to the present."Go study that history! Study about the Civil Rights movement in the south, and about the introduction of blacks into the white public schools. You may wanna go all the way back to the Civil War, and study about the Emancipation Proclamation which was made with the blacks, for these too were events prophecied by Daniel. Study about the removal of School prayer in America, and about the 2 Supreme Court rulings which caused the School prayer to be taken away. Pay close attention to the dates of all these event. Then consider America's "falling away" from God, and the desolation that's occured in this nation over the past 50 years.When you do that, I'll guarantee that you'll understand perfectly Daniel's prophecies, because everything Daniel prophecied about that "little horn" nation, "America" has fulfilled to the letter. (I must caution all of you that, when you study the scriptures, study from the King James, for all the newer versions of the Bible have been corrupted.)
     
  7. RND

    RND New Member

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    [quote name='kriss;12577]
    You're right' date=' I've answered this question so many times on so many different posts that I thought I had here to_One of the most misunderstood and misinterpreted time periods to be found in scripture is the time, times and half a time which is mentioned in Daniel and Revelation: Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. The word time in this context refers to a period of a year. In the story of King Nebuchadnezzar, because of his pride, he went crazy for seven years and ate grass as an ox- Dan 4:32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.So on a literal level, time, times and half a time means time (1 year), times (2 years) and half a time (1/2 year) or 3 1/2 years. Most people who study Bible prophecy stop at this point and accept the 3 1/2 years only at face value. The period that this is generally attributed to by most people, is the last half of the 70th week of Daniel and the reign of the AntiChrist, which is proposed to be fulfilled at some time in the future.A Day Equals One YearThe 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24, however, establishes a principle related to prophetic time that few completely understand. Virtually everyone acknowledges that the 70 weeks are not literally 70 weeks, but rather 70 weeks of years, or 490 years. The principle is that in Bible prophecy, you must substitute a period of a year in place of a day. This is the day=year principle. This equation is clearly established in scripture- Num 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.In this verse, a relationship between day and year is clear, each day will equate to a literal year. For the forty days that Israel spied in Canaan in unbelief, they would be punished by wandering forty years in the desert. Ezek 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.Here again, the equation is stated quite openly, a prophetic day represents a literal year. So to return to the 70 weeks of Daniel, you must first determine the number of days represented. Seventy weeks is 70 x 7 or 490 days, which will then equate to a literal 490 years in the fulfillment of the prophecy.The Lunar CalendarSo now to apply this formula to the 3 1/2 times we must first establish just exactly how many days this represents. The Jews did not use a solar calendar as we do today, they used instead a lunar calendar, as indicated in Psalms- Psa 104:19 He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.The length of the lunar month can be determined from Genesis- Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days. Gen 8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. Note that the there were exactly 5 months from the point where the flood began and the ark came to rest on Ararat, and that this was a period of 150 days. This demonstrates that the lunar calendar set forth in the Bible has a 30 day month, therefore the year is counted as 360 days. (This 360 day lunar year also accounts for the reason that there are 360 degrees in the compass).The 1260 DaysReturning to the 3 1/2 times, which we now know represents 3 1/2 lunar years of 360 days each, using the same methodology as is used for the 70 weeks of Daniel we calculate it to actually represent 1260 literal years. So, Time, Times and half a Time in prophecy is really 1260 years! To confirm this formula we need only to look to the 12th chapter of the book of Revelation- Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.Here the woman represents the faithful church, who flees into the wilderness for 1260 days. Again using the day=year formula, this actually speaks of 1260 years that the church would be persecuted. Now look at this next verse from the same chapter- Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.Here the exact same time of persecution is referred to as 3 1/2 times, again meaning the same period of 1260 days/years as found in verse 6. In the book of Daniel, this exact same period of persecution in church history is found- Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.This verse in context is referring to a period of time that the little horn or AntiChrist will persecute the true believers or true church, again for 1260 years. The same is true for this next verse- Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.[QUOTE']You are very good at asking me to answer all your questions but you dont answer mine. [/QUOTE]I do, you just don't listen, or want to accept the answer.
    You said plainly that Satan left the earth physically after Jesus does on the cross.You exact quote was: "But Satan has not physically been on earth since Christ death on the cross."
    In what form was Satan when Jesus said to Peter, "Get thee behind me...."Satan was The "Prince of the Air" in all forms, at all times on earth.....
    My dear, your going to have to start adding 2+2 sometime in your life and start adding bits and pieces of scripture with actual events in history to come to the rational conclusion that the antichrist is the papacy.Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.Who has spoken words against the most high and claimed yo be god on earth?Who has worn out the saints (i.e. attacked and killed) during the dark ages and refermoation persecution?Who has changed the times (days) and (laws) of God? Did you know the catholic church has it's own form of the 10 commandments for years and years?
    But you're not teaching the word because you don't know that the "little horn" isn't Satan himself because the "little horn" has eyes and a mouth which means it's a physical man, or better yet of man, that speaks like Satan.You yourself said Satan isn't on the earth physically.
    Jesus said you have to accept him like a child, he never said to be deceived by false or incomplete teaching.....I think that's more your problem than mine really, I stopped accepting the incomplete and incoherant teachings of backwoods preachers long ago. I grew up, and put away childish things.
     
  8. RND

    RND New Member

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    (kriss;12578)
    In chapter 12 of Revelation, John relates to us a vision he saw in heaven which will take place at the same time the abomination that causes desolation will occur on earth. Let’s read how he describes the scene.
    A historical look at time is what John relates, not a futuristic time. Notice John says "there was war in heaven" was, as in already happened, past tense, it too easy to miss.
    And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he [Satan] was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him (Revelation 12:7-9).
    Was a war....as in "already happened", not as in "going to happen". You see what you are missing? Couple that with the fact that Satan has been on earth since the days of Adam and Eve and it's impossible to miss. Satan came to earth shortly after the war in heaven.
    So, at the appointed time, Michael will arise and fight against Satan and Satan will lose his place in heaven. Apparently, when Satan and his angels are hurled down to the earth, Michael will no longer be restraining him and Satan is able to go after the people of God without restraint.
    Again, past tense, this has already happened.
    When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman [Israel] who had given birth to the male child [Jesus]. The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time , out of the serpent's reach…. Then the dragon was enraged at the woman [Israel] and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring [the Church]--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus (Revelation 12:13-17).
    Dark ages, already happened. Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.The above verses make clear, in even superficial reading, that the Great Red Dragon is Satan. But there is another relationship that is not as readily apparent. Verse 4 is referring to the birth of Jesus, and Satan's attempt to kill the infant Jesus. Satan however, did not attempt this act of murder on his own. He made his attempt through the power of one man on earth. This man is identified: Mat 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.Herod the Great, the King of Judea and Palestine was the agent Satan used in his attempt to kill the infant Jesus. It is significant to note that Herod received his office from the Roman Empire. In 37 B.C. Herod the Great conquered Jerusalem with the aid of Roman armies and made himself king.Now notice again in Rev 12:3 that Satan is described as having seven heads, ten horns and seven crowns. This is important because it is a key to identify Satan and his agents elsewhere in Revelation: Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.Here another agent of Satan can be found. Although nearly identical in description, it is not Satan, because verse 2 says this beast power gets his power from the dragon - a clear reference to Satan. As we observed in Matthew, Satan used the power of the ancient Roman Empire to attempt the murder of Jesus. The dragon and Rome worked with the same mind toward the same goal. So in Rev 13:2 we can possibly substitute Rome for the word Dragon. Lets explore a little farther.Note the animals that are mentioned. This is a reference back to Daniel 7. John the Revelator was looking backwards in sequence at the previous empires, to give us a time hack if you will, to identify this Sea Beast in the stream of time. The Lion (Babylon) is referred to as the head of Gold in Dan 2, the Bear (Medo-Persia) which is also the chest of silver in Dan 2, and the Leopard (Greece) the thighs of brass in Dan 2. Now there is also a fourth beast in Dan 7, to match the legs of iron in Dan 2 - Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had TEN HORNS.This fourth diverse beast with ten horns correlates to ancient pagan Rome. Ancient pagan Rome, when it disintegrated, was followed by the divided kingdoms, which is to say a divided Europe (a condition that exists today), represented by the feet and TEN TOES of clay and iron in Dan 2.
    When Michael throws Satan down to earth, Satan will become furious and pursue the destruction of Israel and the Church during the Great Tribulation. We know this is the time of the Great Tribulation because of what is happening and because John tells us how long this period of distress lasts. He says that this will be for “a time, times and half a time” which is the same expression that Daniel used when he wrote of the Great Tribulation period in Daniel 7:25 and 12:7. Therefore, we know that Michael will cast Satan down to earth at the same time of the abomination that causes desolation, when the Antichrist is revealed. In Revelation 13, John tells us even more about what happens during this time of the Great Tribulation when Satan is unrestrained. Let’s read it.
    Are you purposely skipping all the persecution and tribulation that has happened to the "church" since basically the time of Christ?The apostles were murdered and the saints have been attacked, maimed, killed, and tortured since the day the church was formed on Pentecost.How is it possible that you can skip 2,000 years of persecution to the church as if it never happened?
    Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast , and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?" The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months [3 ½ years]. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world. He, who has an ear, let him hear (Revelation 13:4-9).
    I understand what it says, but you haven't a clue as to what "prophecy" sysmbols are in use here"A beast is a political power. See Dan. 7Speaking blaspmemies means speaking as God, not against God. remeber when Jesus was accused of blasphemy when He said He was God?
    Lets see how John's version appears in chart form. John's VersionWe have now seen the prophecies of Paul, Daniel and John regarding what happens at the time of the abomination that causes desolation. This is the sequence of events as they have written: 1. Michael arises and throws Satan out of heaven to earth. 2. Satan gives his power to the Beast. 3. Antichrist is revealed at the abomination that causes desolation.4. The Great Tribulation begins immediately 5. Christ returns on the Day of the Lord and gathers His elect.
    This is futuristic dispensationalism straight outta Ribera's playbook.Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) was a Jesuit doctor of theology, born in Spain, who began writing a lengthy (500 page) commentary in 1585 on the book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, and published it about the year 1590. He died in 1591 at the age of fifty-four, so he was not able to expand on his work or write any other commentaries on Revelation. In order to remove the Catholic Church from consideration as the antichrist power, Ribera proposed that the first few chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest he limited to a yet future period of 3 1/2 literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy. Then, he proposed, the antichrist, a single individual, would: * Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God. * Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. * Abolish the Christian religion. * Deny Jesus Christ. * Be received by the Jews. * Pretend to be God. * Kill the two witnesses of God. * Conquer the world.
    Putting all this together, we have concluded that Michael is the one who is holding back Satan (the power of lawlessness) until the appointed time. Michael will then defeat Satan in battle and throw him and his angels down to earth. Satan’s power of lawlessness will then be unrestrained and he will turn his fury on the people of God.
    Oh Lord, this has already happened.
    So now we know the mystery of all three players in Paul’s last days scenario, as it is written.1. He who is being held back - Satan2. He who is doing the holding - Michael is the restrainer !3. He who will be revealed - AntichristOnce again we see that the Bible is the best source for interpreting the Bible. The mystery regarding the identity of the one who restrains the secret power of lawlessness is clearly revealed.
    I'm sorry to say you have a an "elementary" view of Bible prophecy and apparently a very poor understanding of the historic period of the Christian faith. The intent of both the futurism you believe and teach and preterism was to be diversionary, to counter or offset the Protestant Historical interpretation, and present alternatives, no matter how implausible they might be. The result is evident from the following chart, which illustrates the three schools of interpretation regarding antichrist:[​IMG]
     
  9. RND

    RND New Member

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    (truthsearcher;12583)
    Confusion, confusion, confusion....When it comes to end-time Bible prophecies, "confusion" is all there is in the Churches of America.I doesn't have to be that way, for all that's needed is "an understanding of America's history from 1948 (the year that Israel became a nation) to the present."
    "Israel" became a nation the day Jesus died on the cross. Galatians 3:28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.Colossians 3:11Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.Romans 10:12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.Acts 20:21Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.One Christ, one way to salvation.The modern state of Israel is a secular warring nation/state which was created by the United Nations.There is no prophecy about modern day Israel in scripture. If you are Christ's the you are the seed of Abraham and an heir to the promises made to him.Galatians 3:29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.(truthsearcher;12583)
    Go study that history! Study about the Civil Rights movement in the south, and about the introduction of blacks into the white public schools. You may wanna go all the way back to the Civil War, and study about the Emancipation Proclamation which was made with the blacks, for these too were events prophecied by Daniel. Study about the removal of School prayer in America, and about the 2 Supreme Court rulings which caused the School prayer to be taken away. Pay close attention to the dates of all these event. Then consider America's "falling away" from God, and the desolation that's occured in this nation over the past 50 years.When you do that, I'll guarantee that you'll understand perfectly Daniel's prophecies, because everything Daniel prophecied about that "little horn" nation, "America" has fulfilled to the letter. (I must caution all of you that, when you study the scriptures, study from the King James, for all the newer versions of the Bible have been corrupted.)
    America is the second lamb-like beast in Revelation 13:11-17.The second lamb-like beast has no crowns- it is a democracy!This exactly describes the United States arriving on the world scene as a world power to reckon with in the early 1800's. It began as a democratic Christian nation, and rose to power on the world scene immediately following the apparent demise of Roman Catholic Church in 1798. Rev 13:12 And he (the lamb-like beast) exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.Verse 12 is saying that the United States will combine Church and State and strictly enforce apostate Catholic religious doctrine, just like the Roman Catholic church did in the middle ages! Yes! The current effort on the part of evangelical Christians to "take back America" will succeed!In Verse 13 it shows us that this revival of Church and State in the U.S. will be accompanied by great wonders (miracles). The fire coming down from heaven is a deceiving miracle, a false wonder, that may well refer to a counterfeit outpouring of the Holy Spirit! Already today a false manifestation of tongues, holy laughter etc. is sweeping churches in North America!In verse 14 the lamb-like beast (the United States) promotes an image to the first beast (the Roman Catholic Church). When it says "an image to the (first) beast", it means that the apostate Protestant movement in the United States will encourage the establishment of Church/State power, and legislate it's religious agenda on everyone. It will be the mirror "image" of the satanic practices, policies and persecutions of the Roman Catholic Church of the Middle Ages.So using false miracles as proof of it's authority, the apostate Protestant church in the United States will take control of the government and pass religious legislation to enforce it's agenda, and it will promote false Catholic doctrines. What false doctrines, you might ask?1. When you are dead, you are not dead. Your conscious self or spirit waits at some bus stop (purgatory) between here and heaven. Here you are free to listen to the prayers of the living and forward these petitions for grace to Mary or Jesus.- They cannot accept that the wages of sin is death. Death includes the loss of any consciousness of the mind. Those who are dead hear nothing and can do nothing, for themselves or anyone else.2. Salvation is obtained through ministers or priests of the church. They have a bank account with Jesus and can dispense grace or forgiveness to those they favor. Conversely, they can cut off your source of forgiveness if you do not accept their unscriptural traditions.- No church can dispense or withhold forgiveness, forgiveness is yours from God through faith.3. They worship on a day chosen by a pagan emperor of Rome, Sunday, although there is absolutely NO scriptural evidence that Jesus commanded such a change in the Ten Commandments.- The Sabbath is Saturday without question. It is a memorial to Jesus the Creator, who worked six days and rested on the seventh. To worship on any other day is to reject the Creator, reject God, reject Jesus. Whom do you worship if you reject the 10 commandments of God?4. We are saved by good works. God is keeping track of everything we do and the sum total of our good works better add up to a bigger number than our sins. Even "good" people who have rejected Jesus, will by this logic, have a chance so long as their good works total is high enough.- Your works amount to nothing without faith. By the same token, faith without works is a dead faith.So the False Prophet is in fact, apostate Protestantism based in the United States. How do you recognize apostate religion? Try the following additional indicators, note that they are accompanied by a serious lack of meaningful scriptural study.A. Theology that preaches that God is a loving God and most people will be saved if only they will just be good people. You will see a lot of country and western style gospel singers, a lot of praising Jesus and binding Satan, collecting the tithe, but precious little scripture study, and what little there is, is very shallow.B. The happy Christian, it is O.K. to be rich, send us your seed money today and you will get it back 1000 fold, kind of religion. A primary focus on God rewarding his followers with earthly riches. If only you will send in your love gift, God will reward you financially. And by the way, we have some neat things to send you if you contribute today- (mostly tapes, books, plaques, glasses, sculptures, lifetime memberships, get your name engraved on the churches top givers plaque, etc.) You could almost call it the Christian Shopping Network. Did Jesus sell *anything* during His ministry? No- what He offered was not for sale, it was FREE!C. A focus on miracle healing of the sick, prayer requests and again endless pleas for donations, just to stay on the air.D. A mission of building a TV or Radio station empire, from which there is little or no bible study, just more pleas for cash during long telethons, and praising Jesus. Usually broadcast from multi-million dollar lavish studios with lots of expensive decorations.E. A primary reliance on speaking in tongues or other manifestations of the Holy Spirit to prove just how blessed of God they are. The fact that there is complete chaos and/or absolutely no interpreting of what is said in tongues, so that it can be checked against scripture, should be a warning sign- 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.F. Study of early Christian documents that "shed light" on what you should really know about Christianity. The Didache and the books of the Apocrypha, are examples. Limit yourself to the Bible for what you should believe. Everything you need for salvation is in it. Nothing needs to be added. Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:G. Strong political activism to enforce "Christian standards" on the ungodly. I would remind you that Jesus did not endorse political candidates, protest government policy, run for office, or advocate political force. Jesus does not force anyone to do anything. We all have free choice to make our own decisions. The battle of evangelism will not be won from public office or the courtroom, but with the true word of God, scripture.Some would consider such criticism to be hurtful, divisive, and lacking in Christian spirit. I would remind you I am describing the False Prophet to you. Following him and his superficial form of religion will result in the lake of fire! Many will fall into this enticing trap. Here is proof: Mat 7:21 (KJV) "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Mat 7:22 (KJV) "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" Mat 25:11 (KJV) "Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us." Luke 6:46 (KJV) "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 13:25 (KJV) "When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:" These verses say that many, at the time of judgment, will call on Jesus name. They will claim to know him, claim to have performed miracles in his name, claim to have prophesied his coming, claim to have done many wonderful things in his name, and Jesus will reject them! Why? Because they were false prophets who did not know the truths of the Bible and did not follow his commandments. They led people astray and taught only what suited them and their pursuit of earthly gain and riches. God rejects them and their followers. Their numbers are many as Mat 7:22 states. Many think they are saved and are deceived! 1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.Read all the verses quoted in their full context. Study them. The Bible has what you need to know. If you seek only the truth, and admit that there is nothing you can do to save yourself, and are willing to follow the truth anywhere it leads, you will open yourself to the Holy Spirit. He will guide you to know the truth, the way, and the light from scripture.
     
  10. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    TruthI think you will find with more study that the the little Horn is Satan himself not America. .........Jesusreigns you obviously have no clue what the abomination of desolation is The Abomination of Desolation is: when HE (hebrew) stands where he ought not.This is Satan as antichrist standing on the temple mt in the place of the holy of hollies declaring himself to be christ. The actual act that will make many realize they have been following the wrong christ. Im sure you will argue this is your little roman Gen Titus that small footnote in history but you would be wrong.Since according to you half the Bible is about this General that almost no one ever heard of.
    Amen Kriss
     
  11. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    Um....isn't the RCC currenty sitting on top of the world religious system? I mean, for goodness sakes, most of the religious worls believes her pagan teaching and doctrines.Look, I know it sounds exciting to so many that Satan himself is going to drop outta the sky and land on the world scene on day, but that is inconsistent with scripture; simply because Satan was in the garden and has been the prince of this world ever since.The false religious system is being ushered in to the whole of the world at this very moment and it is clearly the false religion of the Babylonian, Egyptian and Roman paganism.
    The Roman Catholic Church does not have all that much power any more!
     
  12. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    I clearly see confusion in here, whether I know the Bible alot or not. The Pope does have an antichrist spirit because he deceives God childrens.II John 1:7 - For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.I John 2:18 - Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last timeAnd Lord Jesus/Yahshua did come in the flesh...John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.But the Pope, is a man that can change their wicked ways and serve Him. But he is not THE AntiChrist...which is Satan/Lucy...who claims to be God...but will fail.And RND, I saw your little picture...There is no secret rapture that Christ is going to come to "rapture" us out before THE AntiChrist comes. The scripture clearly says that the Lord will only come up once (which is the 7th trumpet) and the man of sin will come on the 6th trumpet.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  13. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    Satan doesn't come down to earth, he and his angels are already here and he rules other's by his spirit. The 'mystery of iniquity' (lawlessness) was alive in the church in Paul's day. He, the spirit of antichrist, sits in the temple of God claiming to be God. An antichrist is any one who falsely claims that Jesus is not the Son of God.1 John 2:22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.Anyone that denies Jesus is the Christ is an antichrist. Therefore, it simply can not be atribute to a "single" antichrist boogeyman, but rather it is the 'spirit' of antichrist that sits in the Temple of GoThey were even in the church in John's day:1 John 2:18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.An 'antichrist' is a deceiver and anyone that claims Jesus isn't the Christ, even in John's day there were many 'antichrists' in the world:2 John 1:7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.The Roman church has said that it is responsible for the salvation of man and that it is the judge of salvation. This is a denial of the atoning power of the Blood of Christ and a direct statement against His kingdom and pure blasphemy.....no one nor no other religious entity on earth has ever made this claim. This is not an Adventist view but rather a view of the entire reformation movement. "The pope is the supreme judge of the law of the land....He is the vicegerent of Christ, and is not only a priest forever, but also King of kings and Lord of lords." - La Civilta Cattolica, March 18, 1871 (quoted in "An Inside View of the Vatican Council" by Leonard Woosely Bacaon, p 229, American Tract Society edition). “All the names which are attributed to Christ in Scripture, implying His supremacy over the church, are also attributed to the Pope.” - Robert Bellarmine, in Disputationes de Controversiis, "On the Authority of Councils", book 2, Chapter 17. "The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh." - Catholic National, July, 1895. "...the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who being God, cannot be judged by man." - Pope Nicholas I, quoted in History of the Councils, vol. IX, Dist.: 96, Can 7, "Satis Evidentur Decret Gratian Primer Para", by Labbe and Cossart.If you have a better idea as to who or what you envision the Bible to be saying who the 'little horn' is then I'd love to see you take a firm stab and name who or what it is.Simply saying, 'that's not it' is unacceptable without proof.
    The Anti-Christ is going to have to be Jewish in order to decieve the Jewish people into thinking that he is their Messiah!
     
  14. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    What are the names used for Satan ? Lucifer,man of sin, son of perdition,sin, death What did Christ conquer on the cross? was it not Sin,and death?If Satan is physically here where is he ? He walks, he talks, he performs miracles for all to see where is he? And if the war in Heaven is Satans rebellion because he wants to be Godwhy would we care if he isnt going to come here claiming to be God/Christall the other antichrists were types of THE ANTI christ Satan himself anti means "instead of" thus antichrist means instead of christ.Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. This is not past What is the subject here? of Rev 12? You say you are twisting up time periods but why in the mist of a vision about woes and trumps is John suddenly going to bring up the Garden???????????????? Rev. 12:12Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! (the heavens are rejoicing because Satan has been kicked out) But woe to the earth and the sea, (woe to us (earth) because the devil has gone down to you! (why Because Satan is coming) not because he is here He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short." (now he knows his time is short )Why because we are in the fifth trump in John vision Rev.12:13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.this is the christian church but there were no christians before Christ came so this cant be talking past. And again no one has seen Satan sense christ death because he has been held back so the church could be preached around the worldthen he will be let lose (kicked down to earth)
    I Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion,walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
     
  15. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    What are the names used for Satan ? Lucifer,man of sin, son of perdition,sin, death What did Christ conquer on the cross? was it not Sin,and death?If Satan is physically here where is he ? He walks, he talks, he performs miracles for all to see where is he? And if the war in Heaven is Satans rebellion because he wants to be Godwhy would we care if he isnt going to come here claiming to be God/Christall the other antichrists were types of THE ANTI christ Satan himself anti means "instead of" thus antichrist means instead of christ.Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. This is not past What is the subject here? of Rev 12? You say you are twisting up time periods but why in the mist of a vision about woes and trumps is John suddenly going to bring up the Garden???????????????? Rev. 12:12Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! (the heavens are rejoicing because Satan has been kicked out) But woe to the earth and the sea, (woe to us (earth) because the devil has gone down to you! (why Because Satan is coming) not because he is here He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short." (now he knows his time is short )Why because we are in the fifth trump in John vision Rev.12:13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.this is the christian church but there were no christians before Christ came so this cant be talking past. And again no one has seen Satan sense christ death because he has been held back so the church could be preached around the worldthen he will be let lose (kicked down to earth)
    Kriss,Do you really believe that we are currently living in the Tribulation period?That's what it sounds like in your above quotes!
     
  16. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    In chapter 12 of Revelation, John relates to us a vision he saw in heaven which will take place at the same time the abomination that causes desolation will occur on earth. Let’s read how he describes the scene.And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he [Satan] was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him (Revelation 12:7-9).So, at the appointed time, Michael will arise and fight against Satan and Satan will lose his place in heaven. Apparently, when Satan and his angels are hurled down to the earth, Michael will no longer be restraining him and Satan is able to go after the people of God without restraint. When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman [Israel] who had given birth to the male child [Jesus]. The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time , out of the serpent's reach…. Then the dragon was enraged at the woman [Israel] and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring [the Church]--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus (Revelation 12:13-17).When Michael throws Satan down to earth, Satan will become furious and pursue the destruction of Israel and the Church during the Great Tribulation. We know this is the time of the Great Tribulation because of what is happening and because John tells us how long this period of distress lasts. He says that this will be for “a time, times and half a time” which is the same expression that Daniel used when he wrote of the Great Tribulation period in Daniel 7:25 and 12:7. Therefore, we know that Michael will cast Satan down to earth at the same time of the abomination that causes desolation, when the Antichrist is revealed. In Revelation 13, John tells us even more about what happens during this time of the Great Tribulation when Satan is unrestrained. Let’s read it. Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast , and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?" The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months [3 ½ years]. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world. He, who has an ear, let him hear (Revelation 13:4-9).Lets see how John's version appears in chart form. John's VersionWe have now seen the prophecies of Paul, Daniel and John regarding what happens at the time of the abomination that causes desolation. This is the sequence of events as they have written: 1. Michael arises and throws Satan out of heaven to earth. 2. Satan gives his power to the Beast. 3. Antichrist is revealed at the abomination that causes desolation.4. The Great Tribulation begins immediately 5. Christ returns on the Day of the Lord and gathers His elect.Putting all this together, we have concluded that Michael is the one who is holding back Satan (the power of lawlessness) until the appointed time. Michael will then defeat Satan in battle and throw him and his angels down to earth. Satan’s power of lawlessness will then be unrestrained and he will turn his fury on the people of God.So now we know the mystery of all three players in Paul’s last days scenario, as it is written.1. He who is being held back - Satan2. He who is doing the holding - Michael is the restrainer !3. He who will be revealed - AntichristOnce again we see that the Bible is the best source for interpreting the Bible. The mystery regarding the identity of the one who restrains the secret power of lawlessness is clearly revealed.
    If this is a future War in Heaven, then would'nt they be smart enough to see that this was already prophecied,and that they would loose why would they still fight?
     
  17. RND

    RND New Member

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    The Anti-Christ is going to have to be Jewish in order to decieve the Jewish people into thinking that he is their Messiah!
    Um, weren't they already "deceived" once when the Messiah was really here? Doesn't scripture tell you that?Matthew 8:12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.Matthew 23:38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.Luke 13:35Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.John 5:38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.The children of Israel, because they missed the prophecy of Dan. 9:24-27 failed to see the coming of Christ. The modern church, spiritual Israel, will miss His coming for the same reason: deception.
     
  18. RND

    RND New Member

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    The Roman Catholic Church does not have all that much power any more!
    That's a wonderful statement, however, it belies the facts.All the world wonders after the beastIf she didn't have any power then why do ALL the world leaders bow to her, visit her and commit whoredoms with her?
     
  19. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    I clearly see confusion in here, whether I know the Bible alot or not. The Pope does have an antichrist spirit because he deceives God childrens.II John 1:7 - For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.I John 2:18 - Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last timeAnd Lord Jesus/Yahshua did come in the flesh...John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.But the Pope, is a man that can change their wicked ways and serve Him. But he is not THE AntiChrist...which is Satan/Lucy...who claims to be God...but will fail.And RND, I saw your little picture...There is no secret rapture that Christ is going to come to "rapture" us out before THE AntiChrist comes. The scripture clearly says that the Lord will only come up once (which is the 7th trumpet) and the man of sin will come on the 6th trumpet.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
    I only agree here that the pope is a deciever if he believes their perverted doctrine!
     
  20. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    Um, weren't they already "deceived" once when the Messiah was really here? Doesn't scripture tell you that?Matthew 8:12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.Matthew 23:38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.Luke 13:35Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.John 5:38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.The children of Israel, because they missed the prophecy of Dan. 9:24-27 failed to see the coming of Christ. The modern church, spiritual Israel, will miss His coming for the same reason: deception.
    ofcourse they do and they are still waiting for their Messiah to return, but they are going to be looking for a jewish messiah!
     
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