The Lords 2 anointed witnesses

[David in NJ]

It definitely won't be two individuals Jesus said that He won't send anyone else to Israel especially back from the dead.

Luke 16
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Due to what Jesus stated above I believe them to be symbolic of the Law and the Prophets that pointed to Jesus. Moses represents the Law and Elijiah represents the prophets.

Well, JESUS rose from the dead, as did many others.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No wild speculation.

Yes you do! For example:

Satan wouldn't be to kill a angel.

Huh? Satan is a spirit. A spirit of disobedience within men.

Eph 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The false prophets, false christs, and all people deceived by them are the messengers (angels) with the spirit of Satan. Satan is not an angel. Not an archangel.

Michael and the angels cast out Satan, and his angels in revelation chapter 12.

You have no clues who Michael and His Angels are? He is Jesus Christ and his messengers were Matthew, John, Peter, etc. who are fighting against Pharadisees, Scribes and all Christ-denier Jews who are messengers of Satan before they lost their kingdom representative of Old Testament Congreation. That is what Revelation 12 talks about. Not star wars going on out there in space between angels with laser beams out of their eyes.

Angels are supernatural.

No, they are the messengers. Human messengers. Not created celestial beings before the foundation of the Earth.

Equal in power. Though Michael has the edge.

Of course not. Michael the archangel is the chef's messenger because he is God, which is what the name Michael signifies!

"who is like God?"

At the second coming when Christ shall shout with the voice of archangel. It is HIS OWN VOICE that has power to resurrect all the dead. The angels, or your vision of Michael will NOT be able to do that! Only God Can!

1Th 4:15-17
(15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If anyone here want to know more about exactly who archangel Michael really is may read the following article:

Who is Archangel Michael?

And it isn't Jesus.

Yes, according to Scripture. Where is YOUR biblical proof?? More speculation on your part?

A true shepherd wouldn't disrespect man of God.

Huh?? What the heck are you talking about??

As far as wisdom. You lack insight.

The Lord judges and I am comfortable with that!

I moved on to other subjects.

Thankfully! NO more nonsense from you on THIS subject.

 

[Douggg]

So let’s confirm by scripture the Lords people (saints) as being killed, and their bodies as lying in the streets.

Isaiah 51:23 “But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over.”

Same wording here in Psalm 79:2-3 2The dead bodies of thy servants have they given to be meat unto the fowls of the heaven, the flesh of thy saints unto the beasts of the earth.3 Their blood have they shed like water round about Jerusalem; and there was none to bury them.”

And that is the same wording we see in Revelation 11:9 “and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves”


Just as Christ was crucified for the sins of the world, and we also with Him are “crucified to the world”. Galatians 6:14“But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.” So spiritually speaking we are also “dead to the world”.

Back in Revelation 11:9 we read “And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half,…”
This is also hard for some to grasp, but to the world we are already dead, because we do not “live” after the lusts of the flesh like them. Just as we are told in Romans 8:13“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” So again, spiritually speaking we are “dead” to the world.

This sign of time 3 days and a half was also shown in Hosea 6:2 “After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.”

So again Hosea was not talking about a literal 3 days and a half, or else that prophecy would have been fulfilled 3 and a half days after Hosea uttered those words. Again the language is very symbolic and must be discerned by the Spirit.

In Revelation 11:10 “And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

This is the sign of how God’s Word and Spirit (which is Light) torments the children of darkness (seed of evil doers) because it bears witness of their sins.

Here we see the evil spirits fearing that torment by the Sons (Word of God) presence. Mark 5:7 “And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.”

So that’s why the world would be merry and rejoicing over the removal of those 2 witnesses (law and testimony) in their lives; because those 2 witnesses bear witness to their conscience that sin is evil.

Even in this day and age we are seeing how Gods words and commandments are being removed from public places and in society. The truth is being cast aside to the ground and trampled on like the street, and lawlessness is being embraced by many over that of righteousness. Jesus told us the world would “rejoice” during this time, but we would be in sorrow.

This trampling under foot God’s Word of Truth is also shown here in Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden underfoot the Son of God”.

And in Daniel 8:12 “And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.”

“It” in that verse is the spirit of a lie working in many deceivers. “It” is what bruises the head of the serpent and the heads of his seed. But that is for another study.

And so lies were forecast to practice and prosper in this world, and the Truth and God’s people would to be trampled on “like” the streets. This sign also has to do with the wearing out of the saints, and scattering the power of the holy people, as we see below.

Daniel 7:25 “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”


Daniel 12:7 “And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

This spiritual war against God’s people and against the testimony of Jesus Christ is also shown in the war against the Lamb inRevelation 17:14 “These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.”

So this is not just talking about a physical war on the saints, but a spiritual war that takes place in the hearts and minds of the saints. Remember our battle is not against flesh and blood, but rather spiritual wickedness.

And then finally in Revelation 11:11-1211 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.”

This is the sign of the dead in Christ being raised up first. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:”

And then notice the wording in the next verse in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

Did you catch that? The same wording in Rev. 11:12 and in 1 Thess. 4:17 is shown in both accounts of being caught up “in the clouds”. Notice Paul said the dead in Christ shall rise first, and then notice the timing of when the 2 dead witnesses ascended up. It is right before the 7th angel (last trump) sounded in Revelation 11:15.

So I believe this is showing the ressurection of the saints, who have God’s 2 anointed witnesses “in” them; which is God’s Word and Spirit.


Peace and God bless

No, your entire interpretation is wrong. The two witnesses are two literal men, who will prophesy for 1260 days as the text says.

When the two witnesses are called up to heaven, right after that at "the same hour" there will be great earthquake in Jerusalem, and a tenth part of the city, i.e. the buildings, walls, etc will fall - and seven thousand men will die in it.

---------------------------------------------------------------

The person who overcomes the two witnesses and kills the two witnesses is the beast - who is also a man, an end times person.

 

[Davy]

Not unless you compare Scripture with Scripture and allow the Bible to be its own interpreter than making speculations.

But of course I DID... compare Bible Scripture with Scripture and allowed GOD to interpret those Scriptures for us. What do you think it means when Jesus defined what the "candlesticks" are in Revelation 1 and folks that are supposed to know how to read and comprehend English can't even fathom the mention of the "two candlesticks" in Rev.11?

But what you tried... to do with your vain mocking of "... than making speculations", is to bring in DOUBT of what I had shown in my previous post WITHOUT YOU EVEN BOTHERING TO CHECK IT OUT!

Instead... you tried to discredit and label what I said, instead of proving to yourself that you know how to simply read... The Word of God!

So forget trying to help your befuddled mind in the Scriptures, I won't try and lead you to Truth in God's Word because you might... be insulted!

 

[TribulationSigns]

No, your entire interpretation is wrong.

Actually, your literal interpretation is flawed and not supported by Scripture.

The two witnesses are two literal men, who will prophesy for 1260 days as the text says.

"As the text says" is what is the problem. It's just that you who read things superficially, have no real understanding of it, and thus come to the wrong conclusions.

The Lord did not say "two literal men" else you also believe that they will spew fire out of their mouths literally at enemies? It requires us to compare Scripture with Scripture and allow the Bible to be its own interpreter just as I have shown an example above. Of course, I knew I was placed on your ignore list but my testimony here is for the public to read.

When the two witnesses are called up to heaven

Again read the Scripture:
Rev 11:11-12
(11) And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
(12) And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

1.) Do you know what is a great voice from heaven? It is the WORD of GOD! There is only ONE VOICE from Heaven who can call man to leave the streets of the great city Jersualem (spiritually corporate church), and that is the call of the Great King Himself! God's witnesses are called from DEATH. But wait a minute, it is not physically death that Two Witnesses received from the beast at all! It is NOT physical warfare the believers go through, but spiritual warfare against the rulers of darkness in the high place. Rulers in the Church serving a false god is the language of "evil in high place" or "the heavenlies" where they should not be. But this assault can only take place "AFTER" the testimony of these witnesses is finished first! Then they will be overcome and killed by Satan's ministers - the false prophets and christs in the Church! The problem in the Church today is that it is so deceived and so unfaithful to God's Word, that they generally cannot recognize what is false gospel from what is true! Their lack of the fear of God and their deceitful handling of Scirptures has brought them to this point! And Satan obliges them by clever mimicking of what is righteous.

2Co 11:13-15
(13) For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
(14) And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
(15) Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

The greatest myth about Satan is that he is afraid of the Church and he cannot deceive those who are therein. On the contrary. Overcoming the Church is his greatest prize because he already has rule of the world. And because this is a time of man's abomination in the Church, and because the Witnesses' testimony is finished, God will loose Satan (whom He had bound by the cross), to bring judgment upon the unfaithful congregation. For it has become spiritually as a harlot. A woman who has forsaken her espoused, and has gone whoring after other gods

1Pe 4:17
(17) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

It is a principle of scripture that judgment begins at God's house, and afterward there is the judgment of the world. Only those who are 'truly' spiritually marked or sealed of God in their foreheads by the Holy Spirit, will escape God's wrath upon the external Church because of it's abominations. When abomination stands in the Holy Place, that is when it's judgement is nigh. That is why when Revelation chapter seven declared that 'all' Israel had to be sealed first. It prophesied that the judgment of the four messengers could not begin until all that Israel were Sealed (Saved). God is longsuffering (patient) not willing that any of His elect should perish, and so this judgment is withheld until all who are the Israel of God were sealed. Until the testimony of the true witness of God was finished. This is the picture in Revelation eleven of the two witnesses who are not killed until after their testimony is finished. in other words, until all who are to be sealed or saved by the witness of the word which they brought, were sealed. Then and only then could Satan be loosed from the bottomless pit to assult the Church and bring the witnesses down. Again, it is the principle of judgment beginning at the House of God.

So how did the witnesses get killed by the beast - the army of false prophets and christs? The church is "given" unto the Kingdom of Beast by God to bring her down (2nd Thessalonians 2:11) BECAUSE these unfaithful of the Holy Temple refused to receive the love of the truth that they might be "truly" saved. They instead had pleasure in unrighteousness, and went their own way, and made their own laws. For example, more and more churches have tolerated homosexualities and allowed them to get married or become leaders of their church. Or they allow women to become pastors over men in the congregation. Or they allow Super Bowl and worldly entertainment in their churches, etc. etc. They are abominations to God. Because the Faithful Witnesses of God speak out against this spiritual harlotry, they are hated and killed. Remember, being hated is considered murder to God. Did you note that more and more people do not like to hear about Jesus and salvation that we testified anymore? We will be reviled, hated, insulted, etc. So we are "killed" in the sense that our testimony has been silenced. Not physically killed.

, right after that at "the same hour" there will be great earthquake in Jerusalem, and a tenth part of the city, i.e. the buildings, walls, etc will fall - and seven thousand men will die in it.

Rev 11:13-14
(13) And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
(14) The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Rev 18:9-10
(9) And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
(10) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

It is the hour of JUDGMENT of the unfaithful city which is the church - the home of Two Witnesses where they were killed. She is spiritually Babylon the Great! Regarding "tenth part of the city", the number 10 signifies fullness of whatever is in view so God is talking about the total fall of the unfaithful congregation with ALL and EVERY men without the seal of God within her (signifies 7 thousand) being killed. In other words, they will not find salvation as explained in Revelation 9. The remnant are the faithful Elect (Two Witnesses) who are afraid and have come out of God, praising Him for judging the unfaithful church who is responsible for the blood of the Saints and the Prophets. They are outside the city so that they will not partake of Church's plagues that God poured upon her. See, it is not what you think. God did not talk about physical city Jersualem and 7,000 literal men here. It requires spiritual discernment to know what the Lord is talking about.

The person who overcomes the two witnesses and kills the two witnesses is the beast - who is also a man, an end times person.

LOL! That is a pipe dream of Dispensationalism. The beast is NOT a single human man. The Two Witnesses are all faithful Witnesses of God with the power of the Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel since the Cross so Christ could build the church through us! After all Elect are secured (in God's Eye), our testimony for salvation is finished, and God allowed the beast - the army of false prophets and christs to come into the church to silence out testimony for the purpose of the judgment of the unfaithful church who hate to hear the truth, get it? If you don't buy it, go ahead and pitch a tent over there on the sand of the Middle East and let me know if your interpretation cvome to fruit while the battle of Armaggedon is already taking place in the churches all over the world. That is why the Scripture has warned that many professed Christians do NOT realize that their church are under judgment because they do not understand who the mystery of Babylon the Great really is.

So there!

 

[TribulationSigns]

But of course I DID... compare Bible Scripture with Scripture and allowed GOD to interpret those Scriptures for us. What do you think it means when Jesus defined what the "candlesticks" are in Revelation 1 and folks that are supposed to know how to read and comprehend English can't even fathom the mention of the "two candlesticks" in Rev.11?

But what you tried... to do with your vain mocking of "... than making speculations", is to bring in DOUBT of what I had shown in my previous post WITHOUT YOU EVEN BOTHERING TO CHECK IT OUT!

What did the Scripture say?

Rev 1:20
(20) The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Do you even know what the number seven means? Or were you ever bother to read carefully to my testimony on the signification of number two in Scirpture (eg. Two Witnesses, Two Olive Trees, Two Candlesticks in many of my posts?) I can see that you did not listen.

Regardless, in Revelation 1:20, the Lord clearly defined the stars and candlesticks as churches. You refuse to accept this truth.

Instead... you tried to discredit and label what I said, instead of proving to yourself that you know how to simply read... The Word of God!

I discredit your private interpretation (and speculations) with many verses before. And you are crying uncle when you are being corrected?

So forget trying to help your befuddled mind in the Scriptures, I won't try and lead you to Truth in God's Word because you might... be insulted!

LOL. Well, actually I am leading you to the Truth but you did not love the truth so far. So.... The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with that.

 

[Davy]

What did the Scripture say?

Rev 1:20
(20) The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Do you even know what the number seven means? Or were you ever bother to read carefully to my testimony on the signification of number two in Scirpture (eg. Two Witnesses, Two Olive Trees, Two Candlesticks in many of my posts?) I can see that you did not listen.

Regardless, in Revelation 1:20, the Lord clearly defined the stars and candlesticks as churches. You refuse to accept this truth.



I discredit your private interpretation (and speculations) with many verses before. And you are crying uncle when you are being corrected?



LOL. Well, actually I am leading you to the Truth but you did not love the truth so far. So.... The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with that.

Not read you post, you are now on mu IGNORE LIST. You aren't worthy of having a Christian conversation with.

 

[Douggg]

 

[Davy]

View attachment 49135

Nope. The 1260 days of the "two witnesses" are the same time that Satan's is in power for 42 months with his hosts that tread the holy city. BOTH are about the LATTER 3.5 years of Daniel's symbolic "one week" (7 years).

The difference in those times is this -- the 1260 days is per a solar calendar reckoning, and the 42 months is a Lunar calendar reckoning. Both represent the latter 3 and 1/2 years.

 

[Douggg]

Nope. The 1260 days of the "two witnesses" are the same time that Satan's is in power for 42 months with his hosts that tread the holy city. BOTH are about the LATTER 3.5 years of Daniel's symbolic "one week" (7 years).

The difference in those times is this -- the 1260 days is per a solar calendar reckoning, and the 42 months is a Lunar calendar reckoning. Both represent the latter 3 and 1/2 years.

1st half - Revelation 12,6 1260 days
then the war in the second heaven, and Satan cast down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9
2nd half -Revelation 12:14 the time/times/half time

All of these timeframes and events fit within the 7 year 70th week

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

No, your entire interpretation is wrong. The two witnesses are two literal men, who will prophesy for 1260 days as the text says.

When the two witnesses are called up to heaven, right after that at "the same hour" there will be great earthquake in Jerusalem, and a tenth part of the city, i.e. the buildings, walls, etc will fall - and seven thousand men will die in it.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Notice in Zechariah 4:3 the “two Olive trees” mentioned feed the Oil to the two candlesticks, which in turn lighten His 7 lamps.

Zechariah 4:1-6 “And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep. 2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.”

The angel answered Zechariahs question in verse 6 as to who these 2 were, but Zechariah missed it because he asks the angel again in verse 12; Zechariah 4:12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

And the angel once again tells him these are the “two anointed ones” that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

And these 2 anointed ones are God’s Word and Spirit, ( mentioned in verse 6) which feed the Oil (Spirit) to the 7 lamps.

But let’s take this mystery step by step …

First notice the two olive tree branches feed the oil to the 7 pipes, which in turn light the 7 lamps. (Zech 4:2)

Then notice in Zech 4:10 the angel tells Zechariah that those 7 lamps are the 7 eyes of the Lord.

Zechariah 4:10 “For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth.”

Now before I go any further let me say this for sure, there is no literal flesh and blood man, or men who are in control of, or even feed the Oil (Holy Spirit) to the 7 eyes of the Lord.

The person who overcomes the two witnesses and kills the two witnesses is the beast - who is also a man, an end times person.

There is no physical resurrection of the dead before the last day, so it is not a flesh and blood man who comes up out of the bottomless pit. It is the “spirit” of the beast that works in “many deceivers”that make up “the body” of the beast, which is “the body of sin”.

This “body of sin” working in mankind is what Jesus came to put to death in man. This “sin nature” and “ body of sin” is what is being raised back up in the world.

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes you do! For example:


Huh? Satan is a spirit. A spirit of disobedience within men.

Eph 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The false prophets, false christs, and all people deceived by them are the messengers (angels) with the spirit of Satan. Satan is not an angel. Not an archangel.


You have no clues who Michael and His Angels are? He is Jesus Christ and his messengers were Matthew, John, Peter, etc. who are fighting against Pharadisees, Scribes and all Christ-denier Jews who are messengers of Satan before they lost their kingdom representative of Old Testament Congreation. That is what Revelation 12 talks about. Not star wars going on out there in space between angels with laser beams out of their eyes.



No, they are the messengers. Human messengers. Not created celestial beings before the foundation of the Earth.


Of course not. Michael the archangel is the chef's messenger because he is God, which is what the name Michael signifies!

"who is like God?"

At the second coming when Christ shall shout with the voice of archangel. It is HIS OWN VOICE that has power to resurrect all the dead. The angels, or your vision of Michael will NOT be able to do that! Only God Can!

1Th 4:15-17
(15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If anyone here want to know more about exactly who archangel Michael really is may read the following article:

Who is Archangel Michael?



Yes, according to Scripture. Where is YOUR biblical proof?? More speculation on your part?



Huh?? What the heck are you talking about??



The Lord judges and I am comfortable with that!



Thankfully! NO more nonsense from you on THIS subject.

HEAVEN to @TribulationSigns: The LORD is not Michael

 

[TribulationSigns]

HEAVEN to @TribulationSigns: The LORD is not Michael

No matter how many times I have quoted you with Scripture and provided biblical article showing Michael is indeed God as chef messenger, you won’t get it.

So HEAVEN to @David in NJ !!

 

[David in NJ]

No matter how many times I have quoted you with Scripture and provided biblical article showing Michael is indeed God as chef messenger, you won’t get it.

So HEAVEN to @David in NJ !!

Michael being chief messenger does not supercede the LORD nor does it replace Him nor are they mutual/bilateral or the same Person.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Hebrews 1:13
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Michael is the archangel.

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

 

[David in NJ]

Hebrews 1:13
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Michael is the archangel.

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Attention @TribulationSigns
Michael being chief messenger does not supercede the LORD nor does it replace Him nor are they mutual/bilateral or the same Person.

For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?

6But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

 

[Douggg]

Notice in Zechariah 4:3 the “two Olive trees” mentioned feed the Oil to the two candlesticks, which in turn lighten His 7 lamps.

Zechariah 4:1-6 “And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep. 2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.”

The angel answered Zechariahs question in verse 6 as to who these 2 were, but Zechariah missed it because he asks the angel again in verse 12; Zechariah 4:12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

And the angel once again tells him these are the “two anointed ones” that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

And these 2 anointed ones are God’s Word and Spirit, ( mentioned in verse 6) which feed the Oil (Spirit) to the 7 lamps.

But let’s take this mystery step by step …

First notice the two olive tree branches feed the oil to the 7 pipes, which in turn light the 7 lamps. (Zech 4:2)

Then notice in Zech 4:10 the angel tells Zechariah that those 7 lamps are the 7 eyes of the Lord.

Zechariah 4:10 “For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth.”

Now before I go any further let me say this for sure, there is no literal flesh and blood man, or men who are in control of, or even feed the Oil (Holy Spirit) to the 7 eyes of the Lord.

There is no physical resurrection of the dead before the last day, so it is not a flesh and blood man who comes up out of the bottomless pit. It is the “spirit” of the beast that works in “many deceivers”that make up “the body” of the beast, which is “the body of sin”.

This “body of sin” working in mankind is what Jesus came to put to death in man. This “sin nature” and “ body of sin” is what is being raised back up in the world.

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
When the two witnesses are called up to heaven, right after that at "the same hour" there will be great earthquake in Jerusalem, and a tenth part of the city, i.e. the buildings, walls, etc will fall - and seven thousand men will die in it.

When the two witnesses are called up to heaven, right after that at "the same hour" there will be great earthquake in Jerusalem, and a tenth part of the city, i.e. the buildings, walls, etc will fall - and seven thousand men will die in it.

The two witnesses will be two literal men - as the seven thousand men who will die in the earthquake will be literal men.

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

When the two witnesses are called up to heaven, right after that at "the same hour" there will be great earthquake in Jerusalem, and a tenth part of the city, i.e. the buildings, walls, etc will fall - and seven thousand men will die in it.

The two witnesses will be two literal men - as the seven thousand men who will die in the earthquake will be literal men.

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Notice the timing of when they are caught up to the clouds…

Revelation 11:12-15

King James Version

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12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”

The 7th angel sounding is the last trump.

The cloud represents the saints/angels that come with Christ when the dead in Christ are caught up meet them in the air.

Matthew 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mark 14:62
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Luke 21:27
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

The last trump is when the dead in Christ are caught up in the clouds of heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”

Almost had me, pretty clever symbolic presentation; but there are some discrepancies.
Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God. So you're implying God is standing before God.

And the angel once again tells him these are the “two anointed ones” that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

"Two anointed ones" implies they were given power from God that they did not have before. Men are typically anointed by God. They are chosen, consecrated, blessed, empowered. God does not anoint Himself, He is and has been all powerful. Jesus earthly human ministry was anointed by the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit was not anointed, He is God

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.” (he kills the saints who have Gods witness in them)

The Beast makes war with the saints, persecuted and kills them _ here and there _ but not all at the same time. Nor will 2.7 billion Christians (or at least half who haven't been killed during thenGreat Tribulation) lie in the streets of Jerusalem.
You are reaching! And you didn't mention that the two witnesses are clothed in sackcloth. When do any of us wear that? Since you realize Satan cannot kill Jesus now or the Holy Spirit, you must symbolically assign us as His victims.
It is easy to drift off in symbolism because you can make it go anywhere and mean anything. You search for proof texts to support your case and think, "Ah, I have it!"
Is this just another Preterist attempt to add to your symbolic arguments that refute the coming Great Tribulation/ Second Coming and Millennial Kingdom? Preterists drown themselves in a sea of symbolism. Symbolism is often used in scripture but is usually explained. God is not trying to confuse us or present to us an elaborate puzzle that would require the ability of Shelock Holmes (anointed with the Spirit) to decipher. Revelation is difficult enough to discern. If God meant it to be mostly symbolic, and not to be taken literally, then the blessing we are supposed to receive from it is quite illusive and far fetched

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Almost had me, pretty clever symbolic presentation; but there are some discrepancies.
Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God. So you're implying God is standing before God.

"Two anointed ones" implies they were given power from God that they did not have before. Men are typically anointed by God. They are chosen, consecrated, blessed, empowered. God does not anoint Himself, He is and has been all powerful. Jesus earthly human ministry was anointed by the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit was not anointed, He is God

The Beast makes war with the saints, persecuted and kills them _ here and there _ but not all at the same time. Nor will 2.7 billion Christians (or at least half who haven't been killed during thenGreat Tribulation) lie in the streets of Jerusalem.
You are reaching! And you didn't mention that the two witnesses are clothed in sackcloth. When do any of us wear that? Since you realize Satan cannot kill Jesus now or the Holy Spirit, you must symbolically assign us as His victims.
It is easy to drift off in symbolism because you can make it go anywhere and mean anything. You search for proof texts to support your case and think, "Ah, I have it!"
Is this just another Preterist attempt to add to your symbolic arguments that refute the coming Great Tribulation/ Second Coming and Millennial Kingdom? Preterists drown themselves in a sea of symbolism. Symbolism is often used in scripture but is usually explained. God is not trying to confuse us or present to us an elaborate puzzle that would require the ability of Shelock Holmes (anointed with the Spirit) to decipher. Revelation is difficult enough to discern. If God meant it to be mostly symbolic, and not to be taken literally, then the blessing we are supposed to receive from it is quite illusive and far fetched

Christ is the Word of God. God anointed His Word made flesh in Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 1:9
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Christ, the Word of God is the True and faithful witness that dwells “in” all of God’s anointed priesthood. They have the “Testimony” of Jesus Christ dwelling “in” them by the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 8:16
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

1 John 5:10
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself

1 John 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.