The Man of Sin identified

[quietthinker]

@quietthinker I would say many could run their eyes over that list and find a few items that are confronting! Do you know many Christians don't know the origin of their beliefs? Many think it’s from the Word of God, but for the most, their beliefs were conjured up in the lower sanctum of the RCC by Jesuit Priests.

Any of interest to you?

F2F

What the many believe of this that and the other is of little interest to me. There are 8 billion on the planet with as many opinions about anything that opens and shuts. When something piques my interest I enquire otherwise it's all just bla bla bla

 

[face2face]

What the many believe of this that and the other is of little interest to me. There are 8 billion on the planet with as many opinions about anything that opens and shuts. When something piques my interest I enquire otherwise it's all just bla bla bla

I guess if one writes their own beliefs, everything else would be bla bla bla. Maybe that's how this long list of false doctrines started

 

[face2face]

In regards to the Man of Sin prophecy have you ever thought why the Brothers and Sisters at Thessalonica were given it?

I believe the first reason was due to this idea that Christ was coming much soon than he taught his Apostles.

It's actually an interesting study looking at the financial conditions of certain churches and how that relates to them being led astray. The Laodiceans were said to rich, increased with assets and in need of nothing which is a sad state to be in - one I'm certain many churches around the world find themselves in today (Rev 3:17).

In comparison the church at at Thessalonica had a severe test of suffering and extreme poverty

And now, brothers, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. Out of the most severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. they urgently pleaded with us for the privilege of sharing in this service to the saints. (2 Cor. 8:1, 2, R.S.V.).

You can also read this in 1 Thess 1:6; 2:14; 3:3-4

Maybe it was these circumstances which forced them into willing on Christ's return? Their circumstances must have been very severe for the Apostle to comfort them with such inspired events leading up the to the Lord's return.

 

[face2face]

Another reason was the lies swirling around this community that Christ had already returned! We have a believer in this forum who believes as much so it's not impossible for us to conceive and what of the effects of that?

not to be shaken out of your minds suddenly, or to be alarmed either by a “spirit,” or by an oral statement, or by a letter allegedly from us to the effect that the day of the Lord is at hand. do you not recall that while I was still with you I told you these things? (2 Thess. 2:2)

It's a fragile situation! I recall the judgement Jesus gave in relation to offending one of his little ones and the imagery was not pleasant. He takes these matters with seriously.

It was a perfect storm really - poverty mixed with the fear that Christ had returned and abandoned them! I think many in the world would have similar concerns about Christs second coming.

F2F

 

[face2face]

In relation to this theme and the deception the Thessalonians were under, Paul showed how the events connected with the return of the Lord Jesus Christ were so momentous, that it was impossible for the day of Christ to have already come.

The relief they must have felt when this was received.

F2F

 

[Cassandra]

thanks

I found the book free on Internet Archive.

Faith Of Millions: The Credentials of the Catholic Religion : Rev. John A. O'Brien PhD : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive Woo hoo! @face2face , thanks!

 

[face2face]

I found the book free on Internet Archive.

Faith Of Millions: The Credentials of the Catholic Religion : Rev. John A. O'Brien PhD : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive Woo hoo! @face2face , thanks!

Yes, that's it! It's old isn't it? Was in publication for a while and was used by the RCC as a preaching/teaching tool. I must revisited it again. I can see a number of Christians in this forum are discussing false teachers etc which is why I put up the list. F2F

 

[face2face]

Wow, it's sadly all coming back to me now! Like the Pharisees the threat of losing influence and power would come at a great price. Thanks for finding the book @Cassandra

 

[face2face]

Just going through some of my resources, these also:

Amazon.com

http://www.copticsite.com/books/Christianity%20Through%20the%20Centuries_%20A%20History%20of%20the%20Christian%20Church%20(%20PDFDrive%20).pdf

Server Busy

 

[face2face]

So lets begin at 2 Thess 2

Now regarding the arrival (coming) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to be with him 2 Thess 2:1.

(You may find JW's teach "Parousia" to mean his invisible presence. (Maybe @Keiw @Aunty Jane can confirm this) However, it means a literal, visible presence as the below text show:

2 Cor 7:6 — The coming of Titus
1 Cor 16:17 — The coming of visitors to Paul
Phil 1:26 — Paul's coming to the Philippians.

I believe the JW's believe in an invisible presence because they have Jesus in Heaven with their 144,000 "special ones"...but this is not the meaning of the word nor its application here. Christ will return visibly to the earth to establish God's Kingdom once more.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Now regarding the arrival (coming) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to be with him 2 Thess 2:1.

Paul uses the same word as a noun in Hebrews 10:25 within the context of coming together in remembrance of Christ sacrifice, which many churches do every Sunday, or as often as they meet together.

It's the future assembly of the Saints of God, in training now, but at that time in Glory! I personally love how Paul uses the metaphor of marriage to describe the unity of the Bride and her Groom.

Important note: Paul does not go into the resurrection, or the judgement in this section, which he does elsewhere in his writings - Here 1 Thess 4:13-17 & here 2 Corinthians 5:10

Doubtless they understood at this time of gathering certain events would take place to show those things they have done in the body of Christ.

F2F

 

[ScottA]

You have gotten way off track.

To start with, you seemed to be working it out in your mind, but then veered off. Your start was that the one "man of sin" was actually many...and rightly so, as the children of Adam after his sin were and are many, but stated as if "one man" with regard to all sin. Likewise then, it is also stated as by "One man" that sin is defeated, and yet we know that it is many who make up His one body. In Paul's explanation of "through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men"-- which is it, one or many? And did he mention a third man--or just the two?

The terms and the truth have been stated, and yet not understood or believed.

 

[face2face]

You have gotten way off track.

To start with, you seemed to be working it out in your mind, but then veered off. Your start was that the one "man of sin" was actually many...and rightly so, as the children of Adam after his sin were and are many, but stated as if "one man" with regard to all sin. Likewise then, it is also stated as by "One man" that sin is defeated, and yet we know that it is many who make up His one body. In Paul's explanation of "through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men"-- which is it, one or many? And did he mention a third man--or just the two?

The terms and the truth have been stated, and yet not understood or believed.

Hi Scott, you would be better referring to a post than providing the above. We have established it's a system and its an individual and many individuals who have ruled over it.

Unfortunately your not giving me anything to work with...keen to engage though.

F2F

 

[Keiw]

So lets begin at 2 Thess 2

Now regarding the arrival (coming) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to be with him 2 Thess 2:1.

(You may find JW's teach "Parousia" to mean his invisible presence. (Maybe @Keiw @Aunty Jane can confirm this) However, it means a literal, visible presence as the below text show:

2 Cor 7:6 — The coming of Titus
1 Cor 16:17 — The coming of visitors to Paul
Phil 1:26 — Paul's coming to the Philippians.

I believe the JW's believe in an invisible presence because they have Jesus in Heaven with their 144,000 "special ones"...but this is not the meaning of the word nor its application here. Christ will return visibly to the earth to establish God's Kingdom once more.

F2F

Rev 6:2-He receives his crown=the presence. According to the prophecy in Daniel, from the year 607 bce until the kingdom is established in heaven=2520 years-607+2520=1914--Thus rev 6:4 proving it true-Peace will be taken from the earth=ww1.
Many occurrences still to go in revelation before Jesus arrives here at Rev 19:11-He brings Gods kingdom rule with him. And destroys all the wicked, abysses satan for 1000 years.

 

[face2face]

Rev 6:2-He receives his crown=the presence. According to the prophecy in Daniel, from the year 607 bce until the kingdom is established in heaven=2520 years-607+2520=1914--Thus rev 6:4 proving it true-Peace will be taken from the earth=ww1.
Many occurrences still to go in revelation before Jesus arrives here at Rev 19:11-He brings Gods kingdom rule with him. And destroys all the wicked, abysses satan for 1000 years.

Sorry Keiw none of that answered my question. Do you want to try again?

A literal presence or invisible? I'm just wanting to fact check the JW's belief on that!

Thanks

 

[Keiw]

Sorry Keiw none of that answered my question. Do you want to try again?

A literal presence or invisible? I'm just wanting to fact check the JW's belief on that!

Thanks

Matt 24:3--Matt 24:37--Phil 2:12--2Pet 1:16--2Pet 3:4--Many spots speak of the presence.
Its only invisible to those who live in darkness. In 1879 C.T.Russell said-Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914. He was the only one to get that prophecy correct. But he erred as well about. He mistook Rev 6:1 for Rev 19:11--but he was wrong-6:1=The war in heaven--19:11=Armageddon. Its a continuation of the ride at 6:1 which Michael took. But at 6:2-He receives his crown. Only Jesus gets the crown but Michael got it-proving Michael is Jesus. As does 1Thess 4:16-Dan 12:1

 

[face2face]

Matt 24:3--Matt 24:37--Phil 2:12--2Pet 1:16--2Pet 3:4--Many spots speak of the presence.
Its only invisible to those who live in darkness. In 1879 C.T.Russell said-Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914. He was the only one to get that prophecy correct. But he erred as well about. He mistook Rev 6:1 for Rev 19:11--but he was wrong-6:1=The war in heaven--19:11=Armageddon. Its a continuation of the ride at 6:1 which Michael took. But at 6:2-He receives his crown. Only Jesus gets the crown but Michael got it-proving Michael is Jesus. As does 1Thess 4:16-Dan 12:1

It appears you don't want to speak plainly! The return of Christ to the earth is visible not invisible which is the point being made from 2 Thess 2.

You don't understand Rev 6 but you have Rev 19 right upon face value. All your "war in heaven" nonsense is your inability to interpret the symbol as everything is on earth!

F2F

 

[Keiw]

It appears you don't want to speak plainly! The return of Christ to the earth is visible not invisible which is the point being made from 2 Thess 2.

You don't understand Rev 6 but you have Rev 19 right upon face value. All your "war in heaven" nonsense is your inability to interpret the symbol as everything is on earth!

F2F

Yes at Rev 19:11= Armageddon, Jesus returns to the earth, brings Gods kingdom rule with him, and destroys all the wicked, satan is captured and abyssed for 1000 years. Rev 6:1 = the war in heaven. Rev 12 explains it, and clearly shows the birth of Gods kingdom in heaven as Rev 6:2 does as well. The white horse = symbolic for righteous war. =lamb wars-- proving Michael is Jesus because Michael rode the white horse at Rev 6:1=the war in heaven, Rev 19:11 is a continuation of that ride. It does not end until the conclusion of Rev 20. Then this occurs=1Cor 15:24-28-- Jesus must hand the kingdom back to his God and Father and subject himself)= forever.
Does God have a God= NO. Is God in subjection to anyone= no. Thus proving Jesus is a created being as his appointment to a kingship shows at Dan 7:13-15-One like a son of man=( a created being) is appointed a kingship. And Col 1:15-Jesus is the firstborn of all creation=created direct first and last. All creation occurred at the beginning. The blind guides teach it was while born on earth.

 

[face2face]

Yes at Rev 19:11= Armageddon, Jesus returns to the earth, brings Gods kingdom rule with him, and destroys all the wicked, satan is captured and abyssed for 1000 years.

I'll assume you can not identify correctly the adversary and I thought JW's believed Jesus remained in Heaven? Have you moved away from that teaching?

Rev 6:1 = the war in heaven.

Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, “Come!”
Rev 6:1

Where is the reference to War in Heaven?

Rev 12 explains it, and clearly shows the birth of Gods kingdom in heaven as Rev 6:2 does as well.

Ah right you jump 6 chapters to make your unfounded leap of logic.

And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.Rev 6:2

Again where is the reference to War in Heaven?

The white horse = symbolic for righteous war. =lamb wars--

No white is symbolic of peace and righteousness - you are the one who has added the word WAR without any context or reference.

proving Michael is Jesus because Michael rode the white horse at Rev 6:1=the war in heaven,

This is just getting better by the minute! Adding lie upon lie.

Rev 19:11 is a continuation of that ride. It does not end until the conclusion of Rev 20.

Rev 19 & 20 have nothing to do with Rev 6 entirely different time periods!

This is really poor exposition Keiw.

F2F

 

[Keiw]

I'll assume you can not identify correctly the adversary and I thought JW's believed Jesus remained in Heaven? Have you moved away from that teaching?


Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, “Come!”
Rev 6:1

Where is the reference to War in Heaven?

Ah right you jump 6 chapters to make your unfounded leap of logic.

And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.Rev 6:2

Again where is the reference to War in Heaven?


No white is symbolic of peace and righteousness - you are the one who has added the word WAR without any context or reference.


This is just getting better by the minute! Adding lie upon lie.


Rev 19 & 20 have nothing to do with Rev 6 entirely different time periods!

This is really poor exposition Keiw.

F2F

If you read Rev 12-one finds the war in heaven=Rev 6:1-and the birth of Gods kingdom explained( Rev 12:5)-Thus 6:2--Satan and his angels cast down to the earth-Coming angry knowing his time was short-filled mens hearts with hatred-ww1( Rev 6:4) a disguise to attack the woman mentioned at Rev 12:12-13--which are these-Matt 24:45--the preaching of the good news of Gods kingdom started back up-door to door( Acts 20:20) it was satans attack on the woman. The JW leaders were arrested and thrown into prision until 1919?Why-By applying Jesus-LOVE,PEACE and UNITY by refusing to stand on both sides of that war of hatred. It stopped the preaching, but it picked back up in 1919. Because Gods will cannot be stopped. He tried again in ww2 to stop it.
The JW,s went to prison by applying Jesus--They as well went into the concentration camps. I truly believe that when Catholicism signed the concordance with Hitler to put him into power, payment was rid the earth of the servants of Jehovah( Jews and JW,S) who were exposing the false religions. There is no proof though. But then one must ask Why would a religion claiming to serve Jesus stand on both sides of wars of hatred blowing each others heads off for a power mad murdering sicko like Hitler?