The Manner of Jesus' Return

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Jack

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I'm talking about when God is using his only begotten Son to destroy the unrighteous at Armageddon.
But you said He is destroying them. And yet they are running RAMPANT over all the world. Nearly all governments are filled with WICKED people. How is He destroying them?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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But you said He is destroying them. And yet they are running RAMPANT over all the world. Nearly all governments are filled with WICKED people. How is He destroying them?
Well tell me Jack do you know exactly how the unrighteous will be destroyed? I only know that God will use his only begotten Son and the angels to destroy the unrighteous. Exactly how Jesus and the angels will do it l wouldn't know.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I understand what you believe, but I'm not going to ignore scriptures at John 14:19 and everything that's said in Revelation 1:7 and 1 Timothy 6:15, 16. You also want me to ignore the manner in which Jesus ascended to heaven. Jesus didn't ascend to heaven with the whole world watching. In other words every eye of every tribe didn't literally see Jesus ascend to heaven. Only believers saw this happen. The world was oblivious that this happened at the time it happened. You want me to ignore all this, even though the angels said Jesus would come back in the manner he left. You can call me whatever you want but I'm not going to ignore the things that are said in scripture just because you and others think I should.
Well then continue to twist teh Scriptures by accepting Watchtower allegorizing. Time will show .
 

Ronald Nolette

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I believe what Jesus said at John 14:19 and what the two angels said at Acts 1:10, 11. Also I know that the form that Jesus is in today is told to us at 1 Timothy 6:15, 16. If Jesus came to humans on earth in this form he would destroy all humans on earth, both righteous and unrighteous. Jesus will never again lower himself. So if Jesus comes to earth in another form other than the form that 1 Timothy 6: 15, 16 tells us he's in, then he would be lowering himself again. So no, the world will not literally see Jesus. He said that his second presence would be as the days of Noah. Well the world during Noah's day didn't see God at anytime during Noah's day. The world of that time scoffed at what Noah was saying was going to happen. They didn't believe him until the flood actually started, then they believed not before. People are only going to see Armageddon happening, then they will see, not with their literal eyes, but with their eyes of understanding that God has sent his only begotten Son to destroy the unrighteous. Every nation will mourn and people will be beating their chests in grief knowing that God is destroying them by his only begotten Son Jesus Christ.
I can't fix one who refuses to properly use language such as you. You will see with your eyes! And you will see those "Faithful and discreet slaves bow in worship before Jesus , declare Him Yahweh before they are cast into teh lake of fire to suffer forever, if they die in what they believe today. You have chosen which side you are on. You have been told.
 

Jack

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Well tell me Jack do you know exactly how the unrighteous will be destroyed? I only know that God will use his only begotten Son and the angels to destroy the unrighteous. Exactly how Jesus and the angels will do it l wouldn't know.
They won't be destroyed. But they will sure wish they were.
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Well then continue to twist teh Scriptures by accepting Watchtower allegorizing. Time will show .
I'm not twisting nothing just because you say so. Like I said the scriptures say that two angels said that Jesus would come back in the same manner he left. You obviously want people to believe that the manner that Jesus left is that the whole world suddenly stopped and looked with awe as Jesus ascended into heaven, but that's not the manner that he left. He left not with such a public display, but he left quietly only believers were aware that he ascended into heaven at the time it happened. That's the truth that's not twisting anything.
 

Jack

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I'm not twisting nothing just because you say so. Like I said the scriptures say that two angels said that Jesus would come back in the same manner he left. You obviously want people to believe that the manner that Jesus left is that the whole world suddenly stopped and looked with awe as Jesus ascended into heaven, but that's not the manner that he left. He left not with such a public display, but he left quietly only believers were aware that he ascended into heaven at the time it happened. That's the truth that's not twisting anything.
Let me guess, you studied at Kingdom Hall?
 
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marks

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I'm not twisting nothing just because you say so. Like I said the scriptures say that two angels said that Jesus would come back in the same manner he left. You obviously want people to believe that the manner that Jesus left is that the whole world suddenly stopped and looked with awe as Jesus ascended into heaven, but that's not the manner that he left. He left not with such a public display, but he left quietly only believers were aware that he ascended into heaven at the time it happened. That's the truth that's not twisting anything.
When you take things to extremes, you could end up saying that when Jesus returns, He'll have the same people - the disciples - standing there watching Him. Obviously, I should think, that's not what we are supposed to understand from this.

He will return in the same manner that He left, right? He left by ascending into the sky, naturally we are not saying He will return by ascending into the sky?

At the most basic level, Jesus ascended to heaven by standing on top the Mt of Olives, and rose into the sky into heaven. When He returns, then, He will descend from Heaven to earth, to again stand on the Mt of Olives. Isn't this what it means? Isn't this what is affirmed elsewhere?

Much love!
 
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Taken

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Well tell me Jack do you know exactly how the unrighteous will be destroyed? I only know that God will use his only begotten Son and the angels to destroy the unrighteous. Exactly how Jesus and the angels will do it l wouldn't know.

Matt3:
[12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Matt 13:
[40] As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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When you take things to extremes, you could end up saying that when Jesus returns, He'll have the same people - the disciples - standing there watching Him. Obviously, I should think, that's not what we are supposed to understand from this.

He will return in the same manner that He left, right? He left by ascending into the sky, naturally we are not saying He will return by ascending into the sky?

At the most basic level, Jesus ascended to heaven by standing on top the Mt of Olives, and rose into the sky into heaven. When He returns, then, He will descend from Heaven to earth, to again stand on the Mt of Olives. Isn't this what it means? Isn't this what is affirmed elsewhere?

Much love!
Well that's in disagreement with John 14:19 and 1 Timothy 6:15, 16. Jesus said at John 14:19 the world wouldn't see him again and that's exactly what happened. When Jesus was resurrected from the dead, no one but believers saw Jesus, he appeared only to believers. He didn't once appear to a unbeliever. The world didn't see Jesus again after his resurrection only believers did. That's the truth, I'm not going to deny that truth or ignore it. 1 Timothy 6:15,16 teaches us that the glorified form that Jesus is in today is that he dwells in unapproachable light that no man has seen or can see.
Jesus isn't going to lower himself again. Jesus will always be in this glorified form and so if he appeared to humans on earth in this glorified form they all, both righteous and unrighteous, would die.
So, no human being, will literally see Jesus again. When Armageddon begins the only thing the people will see is destruction, the unrighteous people will see themselves being destroyed. They will know it's Jesus destroying them not because they will literally see him but they will remember the warning they were given in the last days before Armageddon began and that they just scoffed at it. So just like those of the days of Noah who were being destroyed didn't believe Noah until the flood began so it will be in the second presence of Jesus Christ.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Matt3:
[12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Matt 13:
[40] As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Well fire is symbolism that the chaff will be destroyed completely, and eternally, that they are no longer worthy of life so will never live again. Will it be literal fire that destroys them? I don't know.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I can't fix one who refuses to properly use language such as you. You will see with your eyes! And you will see those "Faithful and discreet slaves bow in worship before Jesus , declare Him Yahweh before they are cast into teh lake of fire to suffer forever, if they die in what they believe today. You have chosen which side you are on. You have been told.
And so have you.
 

Jack

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Well fire is symbolism that the chaff will be destroyed completely, and eternally, that they are no longer worthy of life so will never live again. Will it be literal fire that destroys them? I don't know.
You're making that up.
 

Jack

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Well fire is symbolism that the chaff will be destroyed completely, and eternally, that they are no longer worthy of life so will never live again. Will it be literal fire that destroys them? I don't know.
You don't believe in "everlasting life"? It's the same Greek word for "everlasting fire" and "everlasting punishment". How about a little consistency!
 
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Jack

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It doesn't matter where anybody studied, what I said is true. Seems to me you're the one who wants people to believe lies
What? How many years did you "study" at Kingdom Hall? Many years maybe?
 

1stCenturyLady

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a literal cloud
Matthew 25:
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

Matthew 24:37
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The 'clouds of heaven' are actually the angels.

Jude 1:14
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,

Also,' the saints' are the angels.
 

Taken

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Well fire is symbolism that the chaff will be destroyed completely, and eternally, that they are no longer worthy of life so will never live again. Will it be literal fire that destroys them? I don't know.
Heb 12:
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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You're making that up.
I believe it's called reasoning on the scriptures. It's something God's servants do, don't you think? I mean you know as well as I do that in the scriptures Jesus talked about Gehenna. Many Bible translations have translated this Greek word as Hell, Hellfire, or fires of Hell. These translators of the Bible looked upon the Greek word Gehenna as a place where unrighteous Souls went to after a human dies, because these translators believed humans have Souls, not that humans are Souls as the scriptures teach. So this Greek word Gehenna being believed to be a place by these translators, translated Gehenna as Hell, Hellfire, or fires of Hell, but these translations are inaccurate translations of the Greek word Gehenna.
When Jesus taught about Gehenna, he was using an actual place that existed outside the walls of Jerusalem. He was using this actual place, not to teach people that all Souls from all over the planet went to this actual place outside the walls of Jerusalem, but to teach people about an eternal condition that would happen to people that God judges unworthy of eternal life.
Gehenna was a place, that at one time when the Jews fell into false worship, some children were sacrificed by fire to false God's. By the time Jesus was on the world during his ministry the place called Gehenna had become a garbage dump that they kept burning with fire using sulfur and brimstone. Whenever a Jew had been tried for breaking the law covenant and was judged unworthy of being put in a memorial tomb, after the death sentence had been carried out upon that person, the dead body or corpse was thrown into this garbage dump to be cremated. Whatever dead body that wasn't destroyed by the fire would be eaten up by the maggots that lived in this garbage dump. So the Greek word Gehenna is represented as a condition of a person, that God judges unworthy of eternal life. This means fire represents eternal destruction. So when a person dies and God judges a person not deserving a resurrection this person has been judged unworthy to exist as a living person ever again. That person is completely annihilated from existence for eternity. So when God uses fire to destroy the weeds or chaff they're destroyed out of existence as living persons for eternity. Now will God use literal fire to destroy the unrighteous, weeds, or chaff during Armageddon, I don't know, but however God destroys the unrighteous, weeds, or chaff the scriptures using fire as symbolism teaches us that this destruction is an eternal destruction. These people will never exist again they're destroyed out of existence as living persons, forever.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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You don't believe in "everlasting life"? It's the same Greek word for "everlasting fire" and "everlasting punishment". How about a little consistency!
God has never promised eternal life or everlasting life for the unrighteous. It's those that love God and exercise faith that are the ones that get everlasting life. The unrighteous, those who don't love God and don't exercise faith in him they will suffer eternal destruction, eternal punishment, that eternal destruction or eternal punishment means they never existing as a living person again for eternity. Anyone who says God will allow the unrighteous to exist as living persons for eternity, are not being accurate. Eternal life or everlasting life, means a person will exist as a living person for eternity whether it be in heaven or on earth. Everlasting fire represents, eternal punishment, eternal destruction, so those judged by God for everlasting fire are destroyed forever as living persons.They will not exist as living persons ever again.