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Truth7t7

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You can't grasp this verse you are quoting. If all that was said was "living waters", one may suspect that it is symbolic for the Holy Spirit. But more information is given that completely supports the Millennial Kingdom.
The waters from the Great tribulation were dead, fish dead in 1/3 of the seas and lakes. The waters were poisoned as well. Dead waters. So now Jesus makes all things new. Jerusalem will be devastated. Imagine post apocalyptic scenes from movies. It will be totaled. So then the survivors live in tents for awhile. The clean up efforts are extreme. The Jews take 7 months to bury the dead - Do you recall that scripture? Do you remember how long it took to clean up the WTC Twin Towers. Imagine all of NYC leveled. Forget about it, relocate and build somewhere else. Would be nice if Jesus waves His hand and it all disappears.
Oh, did you notice the words sea and winter and summer? The New Jerusalem after the Millennial Kingdom will not have seas, summers or winters. Hello, this is still earth.
I fully grasp the clear words of God below, the river and waters below are the very same place in the Eternal Kingdom, as you deny God's truth, erasing it in symbolic allegory, to maintain your belief in a Millennial Kingdom

Ron You Deny The (River Of Life) (Living Waters) Is Seen In Zechariah 14:8 Below?

(Revelation) 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

(Zechariah) 14:8KJV
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
 

Truth7t7

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You can't grasp this verse you are quoting. If all that was said was "living waters", one may suspect that it is symbolic for the Holy Spirit. But more information is given that completely supports the Millennial Kingdom.
The waters from the Great tribulation were dead, fish dead in 1/3 of the seas and lakes. The waters were poisoned as well. Dead waters. So now Jesus makes all things new. Jerusalem will be devastated. Imagine post apocalyptic scenes from movies. It will be totaled. So then the survivors live in tents for awhile. The clean up efforts are extreme. The Jews take 7 months to bury the dead - Do you recall that scripture? Do you remember how long it took to clean up the WTC Twin Towers. Imagine all of NYC leveled. Forget about it, relocate and build somewhere else. Would be nice if Jesus waves His hand and it all disappears.
Oh, did you notice the words sea and winter and summer? The New Jerusalem after the Millennial Kingdom will not have seas, summers or winters. Hello, this is still earth.
Zechariah 14:16 Who Will Be Left Of The Nations?

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 21:24-27KJV
24 And
the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie:
but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
 

Truth7t7

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The day of the Lord is both the beginning and the end of the Millennial Kingdom, 1000 years. There are resurrections and judgments before it and the second resurrection and Great White Throne Judgment after. Remember "a day to the Lord is like 1000 years and a 1000 years is like a day."
Your claim is false again, scripture clearly teaches that (The Day Of The Lord) is sudden and quick, like a thief, it will be in a literal day

Ron you are clearly shown below that your teaching is in "Error", (The Day Of The Lord) dosen't encompass 1,000 years as you claim

2 Thessalonians 5:2-4KJV
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Gods words clearly teach (The Day Of The Lord) is a literal day, (In That Day) as seen below in Isaiah 2:11-12

Isaiah 2:11-12KJV
11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.
12 For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
 
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Curtis

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Pe
Curtis,
consider psalm 110...He rules in the midst of His enemies...it spreads worldwide,psalm22:27-30...
this implies a long period of time.
The Apostles did not get it until after Pentecost as Jesus told them in jn14-17.

Peters’ puzzlement that Jesus was leaving without setting up His kingdom first, and Jesus’ answer, shows the physical kingdom is yet future, and what the Apostles received was the Holy Spirit coming on them at Pentecost.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud
received him out of their sight.

The word POWER in verse 9 is Dunamis- miracle working Holy Spirit power - and does not mean receiving the kingdom.

Maranatha
 

Curtis

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It is not the final judgment - which is at the end if the 1000 years. Didn't you read the verses in Rev. 20 where it states that? No, you ignore it or distort. Amillenialists/Preterists/partial Pretersists have a tendency to symbolize whatever does not fit into there scenario.

Not to mention they are forced to ignore the fact that the book of revelation being written in 90AD, completely falsifies their claim that it was predicting the events in 70 AD.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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I fully grasp the clear words of God below, the river and waters below are the very same place in the Eternal Kingdom, as you deny God's truth, erasing it in symbolic allegory, to maintain your belief in a Millennial Kingdom

Ron You Deny The (River Of Life) (Living Waters) Is Seen In Zechariah 14:8 Below?

(Revelation) 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

(Zechariah) 14:8KJV
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Two different places at two different times.
 

Stumpmaster

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Does the bible show satan having anything to do with Cain killing Able?
Yes, it does.

We have Scripture saying so:

1Jn 3:11-12 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, (12) not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.

Gen 4:6-7 So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? (7) If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."

1Jn 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Zechariah 14:16 Who Will Be Left Of The Nations?

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 21:24-27KJV
24 And
the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie:
but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
You fail to understand that in the New Jerusalem, there will be no more nights, no seas, no seasons, winter or summer, yet you post these verses that include these very pertinent aspects of life to defend you view.
You fail to see that there is a first resurrection, a second resurrectuon; a first death and a second death.
You fail to see that people procreate, live long lifetimes but that death has still not been destroyed yet.
You fail to acknowledge that the Jews will take seven months to bury the dead after the Great Tribulation.
You fail to acknowledge that people of different nations and different tongues will visit Jesus in Jerusalem periodically.
The New Jerusalem will not have nations or different languages, there will be one. The New Jerusalem is Heaven. 1400 miles by 1400 miles by 1400 miles - that is not the Jerusalem we know today. The New Jerusalem will not have births, procreation, infants playing near a vipers pit.
There will be no sun, moon and stars in the New Jerusalem. The Lord will be our light.
My advice to you to to just wait and see for yourself. Hold onto your view, I can no longer debate with you. You just cannot grasp one verse, let alone an entire doctrine. You see only what you want to see.
 

Marty fox

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Yes, it does.

We have Scripture saying so:

1Jn 3:11-12 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, (12) not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.

Gen 4:6-7 So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? (7) If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."

1Jn 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

None of these verse show that satan had anything to do with it it just shows that Cain sinned and became evil thus he then belonged to the devil
 

marks

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Ha my last name is Fox LoL

I actually see the animals (who were all described as Israel’s enemies in the bible) as being gentiles and Jews dwelling together within the church

I’ve started a thread on my interpretation of the thousand years check in out if you have time
Why not see them as animals peaceably co-existing? Since that's what the prophet said?

Much love!
 

marks

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Part 2.
“Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.” Isaiah 13:9-13

>>>This is not total destruction of the earth and heavens.

“For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ages: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ages and ages. But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.” Isaiah 34:8-11

>>>Again, we see not total destruction of the earth, but generations still living on the earth, owls and ravens dwelling in the land after the Great Tribulation.

Jesus will make His enemies a footstool, and all Christians will worship Him freely (Psalm 110).

After the 7th Trumpet, the Seven Bowls of God's wrath are released on all who oppose Christ, they do not repent from that time on, they curse God.

The Church is His kingdom and it is a spiritual kingdom. However, He will establish it on earth with the entire world as many expected Him to the first time. Jesus has not come in the clouds of heaven as he soon will.

“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.” Matt. 24:30

The Millennial Kingdom

After the Great Tribulation is over, Jesus will lock up Satan and His horde for 1000 years. Only then can there be peace on earth. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded (by Islamic terrorists) for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God who had not worshipped the beast or the image and had not received the mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” Rev. 20:2-4


Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord's house shall

be established on top of the mountains and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it. Many people shall come and say, 'Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths. For out of Zion shall come forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations and rebuke many people; they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." Isaiah 2:2-4)


The curse on creation, the botanicals and the animal kingdom will be removed and the entire world will live in peace.

“that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. Romans 8:21-22

Isaiah 11:6–9 "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young ones shall lie down together; and the Lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole and the weaned child shall out his hand in the viper's den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in My Holy mountain. For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea."


>>>Notice, that everyone on earth shall worship the true God. Also, this describes the first earth, not the New Jerusalem, since there are mountains, nations and seas.

Until the Spirit is poured out upon us from on high,
And the wilderness becomes a fertile field,
And the fertile field is considered as a forest.
Then justice will dwell in the wilderness
And righteousness will abide in the fertile field. And the work of righteousness will be peace,
And the service of righteousness, quietness and confidence forever.
Then my people will live in a peaceful habitation,
And in secure dwellings and in undisturbed resting places; Isaiah 32:15-18


>>>The nations of the world will live in peace with Jesus as their ruler.


"I was watching in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of Man, coming in the clouds of heaven ... Then to Him was given dominion glory and kingdom, that all people's, nations and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom, the one which will not be destroyed." Daniel 7:13-14

>>>Notice also that His KINGDOM will not be destroyed - even in the smallest extant of persecution as we currently see in many countries with wars against Christianity, hate, destruction of churches and death to the saints.
This will be a great way to show who accepts what is written, and who reinterprets the Word into something other than what it says straightforwardly. The more literally someone reads the Bible, the more likely they will expect a 1000 year kingdom of Jesus upon the earth.

Much love!
 
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Truth7t7

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You fail to understand that in the New Jerusalem, there will be no more nights, no seas, no seasons, winter or summer, yet you post these verses that include these very pertinent aspects of life to defend you view.
You fail to see that there is a first resurrection, a second resurrectuon; a first death and a second death.
You fail to see that people procreate, live long lifetimes but that death has still not been destroyed yet.
You fail to acknowledge that the Jews will take seven months to bury the dead after the Great Tribulation.
You fail to acknowledge that people of different nations and different tongues will visit Jesus in Jerusalem periodically.
The New Jerusalem will not have nations or different languages, there will be one. The New Jerusalem is Heaven. 1400 miles by 1400 miles by 1400 miles - that is not the Jerusalem we know today. The New Jerusalem will not have births, procreation, infants playing near a vipers pit.
There will be no sun, moon and stars in the New Jerusalem. The Lord will be our light.
My advice to you to to just wait and see for yourself. Hold onto your view, I can no longer debate with you. You just cannot grasp one verse, let alone an entire doctrine. You see only what you want to see.
You fail to recognize "Seas" in Rev 21:1-2 represents "Multitudes of people" not water, just as (The Beast) rises out of the "Sea" not water in oceans but multitudes of people

Your correct New Jerusalem will have no need for the sun, Jesus is the light of it

There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

Truth7t7

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You fail to acknowledge that the Jews will take seven months to bury the dead after the Great Tribulation.
You fail to acknowledge in your "False" claims, that the war fought below was "Historical" with Horses, Wooden Chariots, Shields, Bows, Arrows, And Spears, all surrounding the 70 year Babylonian Captivity, thousands of years ago

Ezekiel 39:8-9 & 20-23KJV
8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord God; this is the day whereof I have spoken.
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord God.
21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward.
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
 
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Truth7t7

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This will be a great way to show who accepts what is written, and who reinterprets the Word into something other than what it says straightforwardly. The more literally someone reads the Bible, the more likely they will expect a 1000 year kingdom of Jesus upon the earth.

Much love!
There is no Millennial Kingdom on this earth seen in Revelation 20:1-6 below, it's a fabricated non-existent place, in the land of fairytales and wizards

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

Marty fox

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Why not see them as animals peaceably co-existing? Since that's what the prophet said?

Much love!

Because that whole text is talking about the first advent and is full of symbolism. Why would it go from symbolism to literal in the same text?

Why would it mention the rod of His mouth and that His belt is His righteous and then tell us about
wolves literally laying with lambs when it doesn’t mention people living peacefully together?

It’s talking about the spiritual kingdom Jesus established on earth at His first coming. Now the gentiles would be brought into the faithful church and both Jew and gentile could dwell together within the church in peace
 
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Iconoclast

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Because that whole text is talking about the first advent and is full of symbolism. Why would it go from symbolism to literal in the same text?

Why would it mention the rod of His mouth and that His belt is His righteous and then tell us about
wolves literally laying with lambs when it doesn’t mention people living peacefully together?

It’s talking about the spiritual kingdom Jesus established on earth at His first coming. Now the gentiles would be brought into the faithful church and both Jew and gentile could dwell together within the church in peace
Marty , just started a new thread trying to open up some fresh ideas...it is on partial Preterism.