The Mystery Revealed

[GodsGrace]

then why say "i know i will be with the Lord someday, after i die?" as though you were waiting to be with the Lord?

Do you know this joke?
I have good news for you and I have bad news for you.
The good news is that you're going to heaven...
The bad news is that you're going in 10 minutes.

I'm in no hurry to get there. But I look forward to heaven, I don't dread hell... That's what I mean.

 

[bbyrd009]

What do you think Paul meant?

well, "we walk by faith, and not sight" is obviously not true, but rather an expression of an ideal stated so that ppl might include themselves in it without any proof also, same as "we seek to please God where we are right now," which is also an ideal, and even contested at many other points in the Book

 

[GodsGrace]

ha, the Big Party in the Sky is an assumption, based upon bad interpretation led by desires of men, imo. A chimera iow

Oh my.
Why do you think it's a chimera??
I'm believing that to be with God, wherever that might be, is heaven.

 

[bbyrd009]

I always understood that to mean that there is no middle ground.
Either we're in our present body, OR we're with the Lord.

read the passage again, with no help from anyone, and the obvious points, "we walk by faith, and not sight," and "we seek to please God now" become clear imo. "Absent from the body" was never even the point, see

 

[bbyrd009]

Either we're in our present body, OR we're with the Lord.

...is how we have made up our minds is the truth, yes

 

[bbyrd009]

No. I think Jesus made it clear how to be a part of the Kingdom so that we COULD be sure.

How could I be joyous if I'm not sure.

ok, not sure how you fit that in with "it would be better to have never been born," but that is up to you. and Job, i guess

 

[GodsGrace]

well, "we walk by faith, and not sight" is obviously not true, but rather an expression of an ideal stated so that ppl might include themselves in it without any proof also, same as "we seek to please God where we are right now," which is also an ideal, and even contested at many other points in the Book

We walk by faith and not by sight.
2 Corinthians 5:7
We see what's around us and it doesn't look so good.
That is the sight.

But we can be happy knowing that where we're going is perfect and all the tears will be wiped away.
That is the faith.

Faith in what is to come beyond this life.

 

[bbyrd009]

Really?
What do you think?
I think it'll look the same as today.
Many woes, but I'm still here.

i think to answer to your specific perspective would be a diff answer than answering to our common perspective, and if you were to describe your life today to someone living even 100 years ago, you would be burned for a witch lol

 

[GodsGrace]

...is how we have made up our minds is the truth, yes

What do you think is the truth?
Jesus said "I go to prepare a room for you in my Father's house".
John 14:2-3
Is this not the truth? Jesus said it.

 

[bbyrd009]

But I look forward to heaven

doesn't this perspective come under "i expect a reward, for services rendered?"

 

[GodsGrace]

i think to answer to your specific perspective would be a diff answer than answering to our common perspective, and if you were to describe your life today to someone living even 100 years ago, you would be burned for a witch lol

Yeah. You always say this. You mean like talking on a wire, seeing someone in a screen, etc.
I'd have to agree although I'm not sure what it has to do with Christianity...

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh my.
Why do you think it's a chimera??
I'm believing that to be with God, wherever that might be, is heaven.

then you should be in heaven right now, why anticipate some other heaven after you die?

 

[GodsGrace]

doesn't this perspective come under "i expect a reward, for services rendered?"

That would be works.
I believe we are required to do works, but not to be saved.
I'm saved because I met Jesus and have learned that He wants the best for me. So I trust Him. And look forward to meeting Him.

 

[bbyrd009]

We walk by faith and not by sight.

as if, right? We play at it, for seconds at a time, perhaps, yes. Me included.

 

[GodsGrace]

then you should be in heaven right now, why anticipate some other heaven after you die?

Come on bb.
Heaven HERE is a chimera.
I hope we have the same meaning for that word...
(fairytale)

 

[bbyrd009]

But we can be happy knowing that where we're going is perfect and all the tears will be wiped away.
That is the faith.

Faith in what is to come beyond this life.

"i am saying that we have all not only made up our minds, but even wish we were dead and partying with Jesus right now!"

 

[bbyrd009]

And look forward to meeting Him.

ok, keep looking forward then, as long as it suits you. But Christ has already stated that He will never leave you, nor forsake you, so fwiw i am not waiting for what you are waiting for. you can meet Him in the Air today, as far as i understand

 

[bbyrd009]

Come on bb.
Heaven HERE is a chimera.
I hope we have the same meaning for that word...
(fairytale)

well, a chimera is a concept, a creation, that is based upon other concepts, "if this is true and that is true, this must be true too," wherein a faulty extrapolation has been made, and if you believe that the kingdom of heaven is somewhere else other than here, then how did you get that idea? Not from the book!

 

[GodsGrace]

then you should be in heaven right now, why anticipate some other heaven after you die?

How could I be in heaven right now?
I had a kidney stone 3 weeks ago...!
I hope not to get anymore up there.

 

[GodsGrace]

as if, right? We play at it, for seconds at a time, perhaps, yes. Me included.

We play at it.
Yeah. This could be right.
How serious are we?
Have we sold everything?
Do we love HIM more than ourselves?
etc.
I gotcha.