The Mystery Revealed

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bbyrd009

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You think hell is here?

th


Sorry bb.
But that's how I feel.
well of course, that is the result of a lifetime of conditioning, i don't fault anyone for this. Hell does not disappear from the "afterlife" until we go seek, ask, knock to find where hell is in the Book, wherein it disappears, too. The relevant analogy was to Gehenna, and Norse/Angle scribes had no equivalent for that, so they just borrowed from their mythology, as Hades is mythology, also. Mythology must be invoked to find hell, a place of torment in the afterlife, and Hades mythology alone would not have sufficed bc there is no concept of hell in Hades' mythology.

No one ever asks why Hades NT, and Sheol OT, see,

"Scholars have looked far and wide to explain the name Sheol via words found in other languages but no explanation wholly satisfied and we're back to the obvious, albeit difficult to explain, namely that the name Sheol comes from the verb שאל (sha'al), meaning to ask, inquire, borrow, beg:" The amazing name Sheol: meaning and etymology
which is a powerful statement in its own right, see; you want to know about some place or state of torture in the afterlife, you have to go beg for it!
 
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bbyrd009

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Only in a manner of speaking and if that's what you wish to believe.
When I went through the N.T. it sounded like a real place to me.
oh, it's very real, i guess, even if it is not the place our logical first read-through suggests to us
Jesus said He would come back to take us there.
John 14:2
He did, and He has already, ya
 

GodsGrace

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well of course, that is the result of a lifetime of conditioning, i don't fault you for this. Hell does not disappear from the "afterlife" until we go seek, ask, knock to find where hell is in the Book, wherein it disappears, too. The relevant analogy was to Gehenna, and Norse/Angle scribes had no equivalent for that, so they just borrowed from their mythology, as Hades is mythology, also. Mythology must be invoked to find hell, a place of torment in the afterlife, and Hades mythology alone would not have sufficed bc there is no concept of hell in Hades' mythology.

No one ever asks why Hades NT, and Sheol OT, see,

"Scholars have looked far and wide to explain the name Sheol via words found in other languages but no explanation wholly satisfied and we're back to the obvious, albeit difficult to explain, namely that the name Sheol comes from the verb שאל (sha'al), meaning to ask, inquire, borrow, beg:" The amazing name Sheol: meaning and etymology
which is a powerful statement in its own right, see; you want to know about some place or state of torture in the afterlife, you have to go beg for it!
OH!
You mean the word HELL doesn't exist in the bible.
I thought we were talking about the PLACE. You know, the place where God isn't is hell. It's not hell here because there's some good in the mixture. Good comes from God and God is not in hell.

I agree there. Many problems with the translation.
Hell DOES appear one time in the N.T.
2 Peter 2:4, tartarus. It seems to be destined for angels, the bad ones. And satan.

But the concept of hell does exist in the N.T.
If one does not go to be with God, he will be in hell.
 
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GodsGrace

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oh, it's very real, i guess, even if it is not the place our logical first read-through suggests to us
He did, and He has already, ya
I'm expecting Him to return.
Not imminently like some Christians do.
But yeah...
Maranatha.
 

GodsGrace

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The music is very beautiful.

It has lyrics. The Spanish lyrics are not what the guy is singing in English.
What do YOU listen to? I'll do the same...

Words are sometimes changed and even meanings, to follow the music.
It takes great effort to keep the meaning the same and most translations will not to this. Interestingly, there's a song where this was done but I can't think of it right now...
 
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GodsGrace

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guess i have to agree there, but fwiw Jews do not believe this way, never have; and Gehenna is on earth, after all.
You mean modern-day Jews?
The Pharisees believed in an after-life.
The Saducees did not.
Jesus obviously believed in an after-life since He spoke about doing good deeds and being judged on them. Judged for what if there is no afterlife.
Example: John 6:28-29 (maybe John 5)
 

bbyrd009

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The music is very beautiful.

It has lyrics. The Spanish lyrics are not what the guy is singing in English.
What do YOU listen to? I'll do the same...

Words are sometimes changed and even meanings, to follow the music.
It takes great effort to keep the meaning the same and most translations will not to this. Interestingly, there's a song where this was done but I can't think of it right now...
they usually don't translate well too literally i guess, huh. Pulling my leg becomes taking my hair, etc
 

GodsGrace

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guess i have to agree there, but fwiw Jews do not believe this way, never have; and Gehenna is on earth, after all.
Yes. Gehenna is on earth.
That's maybe why the problem with translation.
The KJV (I do believe) just turned everything into "hell".
This was very bad. They should have just kept the ORIGINAL words, and explained them as a footnote. Did footnotes exist at the time of Tyndale??

Sheoul
Gehenna
Hades
Tartarus

I think that's it.
Hades is in Luke 16. The waiting place where Abraham's Bossom is found.
Luke 16:22
 

GodsGrace

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they usually don't translate well too literally i guess, huh. Pulling my leg becomes taking my hair, etc
Yeah. Pulling my leg means you're trying to get the guy to become taller !!
It's pretty funny actually.
Using google to translate is a BIG mistake!

Anyway, I guess I should listen to the English lyrics.
Will try again...
 

GodsGrace

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i guess there is still division among them there, but i mean in general Jews do not even frame salvation in terms of "after life."
Jesus meant that we are saved for this life too.
We just never talk about it.
Must be leaving...
 

bbyrd009

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Jesus obviously believed in an after-life since He spoke about doing good deeds and being judged on them. Judged for what if there is no afterlife.
ha, well don't we make judgements in real-time? the point is not to deny a resurrection, or an afterlife even, but to honor "we do not yet know."
 

bbyrd009

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This was very bad. They should have just kept the ORIGINAL words, and explained them as a footnote. Did footnotes exist at the time of Tyndale?
um, i remember reading about that very thing, i think the KJV incorporated a lot of footnotes or something along those lines, ya
 
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GodsGrace

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ha, well don't we make judgements in real-time? the point is not to deny a resurrection, or an afterlife even, but to honor "we do not yet know."
Do not know there is an after-life,
or do not know what it will be?
You do seem pretty obsessed with this.
Read The Shack. Yeah. I know.
Just read it, I think you might like it.
 
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bbyrd009

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Do not know there is an after-life,
or do not know what it will be?
You do seem pretty obsessed with this.
Read The Shack. Yeah. I know.
Just read it, I think you might like it.
don't know what it will be, yes. what it will for sure be, though, is "right now," whenever one gets to there, right? You can only ever be in "right now," is kind of the point there. "Seek to please God now, where you are."

i read The Shack a couple years ago, wasn't my cuppa, what impacted you the most in it?