The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[Eternally Grateful]

wow this thread turned!

Want to see a vision of the roman church

look at OT jewish system

they are basically identical. the only differences are the laws and traditions they follow.

Both are a works based, sacramental system of traditions and laws.

Both claim history proves they are right (the Jews have Abraham the Romans have Peter)

Both take the scripture and add to it. and call all the things added Gods word.

I mean I can go on and on.

Yet non of it matters.

The gospel is what matters, the roman church needs the gospel. not attacked. No one will repent when under attack.

Anyone who thinks catholics will change while being attacked, or any catholic who thinks others will change while they attack them, are sadly mistaken.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

by the way, I am not a protestant. I do not protest any church.. I just know there is only one church. or one body. and it has many names and comes in many forms, as it is filled wiht many people. all united with 1 gospel. even if they do things different in other areas.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Want to see a vision of the roman church
look at OT jewish system

they are basically identical. the only differences are the laws and traditions they follow.

Both are a works based, sacramental system of traditions and laws.

Both claim history proves they are right (the Jews have Abraham the Romans have Peter)

Both take the scripture and add to it. and call all the things added Gods word.
I mean I can go on and on.
Yet non of it matters.

The gospel is what matters, the roman church needs the gospel. not attacked. No one will repent when under attack.

Anyone who thinks catholics will change while being attacked, or any catholic who thinks others will change while they attack them, are sadly mistaken.

by the way, I am not a protestant. I do not protest any church.. I just know there is only one church. or one body. and it has many names and comes in many forms, as it is filled wiht many people. all united with 1 gospel. even if they do things different in other areas.

Gee - ever winder WHY you came to this conclusion??
It's because the Catholic Church is the FULFILLMENT of Judaism - just as Christ is the FULFILLMENT of the Old Covenant.

And, if you think it is "works-based" - then you have a LOT to learn . . .

Finally - if you are a non-Catholic, non-Orthodox Christian, then you ARE a Protestant by definition . . .

 

[Truther]

Please describe the doctrines of the Acts Church. Then explain why non-Catholic Christians can't agree on what those doctrines were.

The Acts 2 Church began by 120 speaking in tongues at Pentecost, then folks that were inquiring to be admitted were commanded by Peter to repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins and they also were promised to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. 3000 were added to the church via water baptism that day.

No RCC's, are not saved just like RCC's are not saved because they skipped this Acts 2 process entirely.

Y'all spend your entire lives skipping it, and forbid your converts to partake of it.

 

[Truther]

That verse doesn't rule out the possibility that God can inspire the Pope to utter/write the infallible words of God, just as God inspired to the prophets and apostles to do the same.

It says the Apostles/Prophets words are foundational via Jesus.

It does not include anyone else in the foundation process.

This means the Pope is only a window washer, and nothing is built on him.

 

[Truther]

Please explain.

They don't repent, and they don't immediately get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins after repenting.

 

[Truther]

You are attempting to separate Christ from his body, which is the Church. They cannot be separated. Where you find the Church, you find Christ. Christ is the Shepherd, and so is his Church. Try and think outside your sand box, just a little.

I will stay in the box, thank you.

The Lord is my shepherd, not the Pope or any other sinful man.

 

[Truther]

Jesus said baptise in the name of 'the Son" - literally.

What is the name of the son, literally?

 

[Truther]

Sounds like a game of Dungeons and Dragons. You just make things up as you go along - which Scripture says a "lord" can be killed?

Can you cite one reputable theologian who supports your claim that "Lord" in Luke 1:43 doesn't refer to God?

1 Thessalonians 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:


Paul will do. He is reputable.

 

[Truther]

According to you, Jesus was a created being, and then he became God. Pray tell, how does a mere creature become God? Please explain this absurdity.

Furthermore, how does a creature become the God that created that creature? Or is the Jesus God a different God to the God that created Jesus?

Not created God....made God.

He was made God by default.

The process is this:

After resurrecting...45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


Then this happened....


9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


Thus, every bit of God indwells the "last Adam's" quickening spirit, omnipresent body.

This is the results of the process....

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.


God lights the city THROUGH Jesus. God is the power source and Jesus is the "bulb".

This Col 2:9 effect also creates this for us to see God THROUGH Jesus....


Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:...

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 

[Truther]

I should take lessons from a guy who edited the bible and deleted 7 Books from it??
Why would I want to wind up in the same mess as YOU?

The Old Testament Canon that I have in MY Catholic Bible is the SAME one that Jesus and the NT writers learned from.
This is evident by the almost 200 references in the NT to the 7 OT Books that Luther deleted . . .

He deleted the Pope's decrees.

You should too.

You are stuck in the dark ages.

 

[Truther]

Jesus is GOD and was ALWAYS God (John 1:1).

He didn't "become" God at some later point.

You think God originated as a microscopic sperm cell then.

You think God humbled Himself to wicked humans and devils, then died.

You serve an extremely humble God, but I serve a mighty God through His son Jesus Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

He deleted the Pope's decrees.
You should too.
You are stuck in the dark ages.

And that's about the most ignorant things you've said yet.
Luther deleted the "Pope's decrees" - from Scripture??

I worry about your kids . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You think God originated as a microscopic sperm cell then.
You think God humbled Himself to wicked humans and devils, then died.
You serve an extremely humble God, but I serve a mighty God through His son Jesus Christ.

God absolutely humbled Himself when He condescended to become a human being.
THAT'S the whole point of His perfect sacrifice, Einstein.

READ and LEARN . . .

Heb. 2:14-18
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their HUMANITY so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. For this reason he had to be made like them, FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What is the name of the son, literally?

What was the name of the Son - BEFORE He came down from Heaven??

 

[user]

First of all - Ananias told Paul that his sins would be washed away by being Baptized - AND by calling on the name of the Lord.
He DIDN'T say that this was the BAPTISMAL formula.

Finally, unlike YOU and a few others here - Matthew understood as the scholarly evidence I quoted that "in the name of" simply means "BY THE AUTHORITY OF".

You have been linguistically horse-whipped and you can't seem to come to grips with it . . .

Jesus is the only saving name and the name in which sins are forgiven and remitted. To baptize in Jesus’ name is to baptize with His power and authority, the Apostles baptized in Jesus name, NOT "Father, Son, Holy Ghost." You do NOT have one scripture of anyone being baptized with the formula of "Father, Son, Holy Ghost" ... If you think you do, then please, by all means, horse-whip this forum and provide it now.

In Matthew 28:19 Jesus was telling them what to DO, not what to repeat verbatim.

We await your scripture, not your commentaries.

 

[Enow]

If Billy Graham was such a good preacher, how come he never figured out that he should become a member of God’s one, true Church?

I didn't say he was a good preacher. AND he has made compromises with the CC, brother. He even paraphrased #847 of the Catholic catechism to Robert Schuller.

So why ask that question about Billy Graham if you believe #847?

And implying the CC is God's one true Church has yet to be proven, brother. Just saying it does not make it so.

 

[Enow]

Nonsense - there are several Scriptures that imply believers can end up in Hell. You choose to ignore such Scriptures and persist in your erroneous doctrine.

There are no scripture teaching a believer can wind up in hell; ( John 6:38-40 ) There are scripture teaching the consequence of not being ready for the Bridegroom when He comes and that is to be left behind to face the fire coming on the earth ( Luke 12:40-49 & 2 Peter 3:3-15 ) which said calamity will set up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth in the coming great tribulation ( Revelation 2:18-25 & Revelation 14:6-13 ). Those believers left behind are still saved, but they will incur a physical death but their spirit are still saved ( 1 Corinthians 3:15-17 ), but they missed out in being a part of the first fruits of the resurrection in being that vessel unto honor in His House. ( 2 Timothy 2:19-21 )

So show scripture proving your point and see if you are applying His words wrong in light of the scriptural references provided for my point.

Nothing is sealed until after you die, when you will be judged by Christ and hopefully granted salvation.

Explain this verse then.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

You use the term, "saved believers" - does that mean there are unsaved believers?

There will be saved believers found not abiding in Him for having wood, stubble, and hay on that foundation that will be "disqualified" and left behind, but they are still saved albeit, they missed out in being a part of that first fruit of the resurrection when God comes to judge His House first as the Bridegroom to receive those abiding in Him & His words as vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in heaven in His honor.

Those saints left behind that will be resurrected after the great tribulation is where and why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus is the only saving name and the name in which sins are forgiven and remitted. To baptize in Jesus’ name is to baptize with His power and authority, the Apostles baptized in Jesus name, NOT "Father, Son, Holy Ghost." You do NOT have one scripture of anyone being baptized with the formula of "Father, Son, Holy Ghost" ... If you think you do, then please, by all means, horse-whip this forum and provide it now.

In Matthew 28:19 Jesus was telling them what to DO, not what to repeat verbatim.

We await your scripture, not your commentaries.

I've already proven to you - with scholarly evidence - what "in the name of" actually means.
Your rejection of this scholarly evidence only speaks to your desperation.

You cannot read Scripture with a blind, 21st century, literal mentality. Words and phrases have meanings and linguistics is a science. that you are not qualified to refute. You can ignore it, as you have - but that only shows your ignorance.

 

[BreadOfLife]

There are no scripture teaching a believer can wind up in hell;

This is absolutely false.

First of all - James 2:19 states explicitly that the DEMONS believe in the truths about God.
Are they in Heaven or Hell??

Also - the Scriptures are LOADED with warnings to BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS,not to fall back into a life of sin or they will LOSE their security.
Here are bur a FEW examples . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

When will you STOP LYING??