The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[Truther]

I “admitted” that a priest must abstain from sex??
That’s not an “admission”, Einstein – it’s been my case ALL along.

As for lust - NOBODY is free to lust. EVERY person who lusts sins, according to Jesus (Matt. 5:28).
What kind of moronic question is that?

At what point is a priest gone too far to be removed from the clergy?

Marriage?

 

[BreadOfLife]

At what point is a priest gone too far to be removed from the clergy?

Marriage?

That’s up to his bishop.
If he marries – he would have effectively rescinded his vows.

A priest is effectively married to Christ and His Church.
If a married man marries another woman other than his wife – has he not rescinded HIS marriage vow?

Is ANY of this sinking in yet?
NOT that complicated . . .

 

[Truther]

That’s up to his bishop.
If he marries – he would have effectively rescinded his vows.

A priest is effectively married to Christ and His Church.
If a married man marries another woman other than his wife – has he not rescinded HIS marriage vow?

Is ANY of this sinking in yet?
NOT that complicated . . .

Then he is mandated to abstain from marriage or else?
Is that Biblical?

 

[BreadOfLife]

What is the difference, then, between these and those who are not allowed to marry?

My question after this is, if the privileges be the same, our best bet is to become one of these rather than an actual priest; so that we can have the privilege of being able to marry the one we love. Why then even have the office of priest?

A Deacon and a Priest don’t have the same power.

A Deacon can’t celebrate the Mass.
A Priest can.

A Deacon can’t confect the Eucharist.
A Priest can.

A Deacon can’t hear Confessions or give absolution.
A Priest can.

A Deacon can’t preside at a wedding.
A Priest can.

A Deacon can’t give a person Last Rites.
A Priest can.

These are a few of the differences.

If this is the case then the members of the Godhead are separate rather than distinct.

No, they are distinct Persons.

This simply doesn't fit YOUR perverse definition . . .

It is a fulfillment of 1 Timothy 4:1-3...

1Ti 4:1, Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2, Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

And you are completely dishonest because I already educated you about the history of 1 Tim. 4:1-2, and it has to do with the Gnostic Heretics – NOT the Church. They forbade marriage, forbade eating certain foods and rejected ALL material as evil.

So, you keep regurgitating your lie and I’ll keep exposing you for it . . .

As is everyone else that you come across on these boards. Did you ever stop to think that the problem might not be with everyone else but with you?

No.
It's with YOU and others like you here who choose to lie instead of being honest . . .

 

[Truther]

The he is mandated to abstain from marriage or else?
Is that Biblical?

A priest can forgive sins?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Then he is mandated to abstain from marriage or else?
Is that Biblical?

No, because he's not forced.
Is ANY of this sinking in??

My 3rd grade Catechism.students didn't have this much difficulty understanding . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

A priest can forgive sins?

Yup.
Jesus gave them that power in John 20:21-23.

 

[justbyfaith]

A Deacon and a Priest don’t have the same power.

A Deacon can’t celebrate the Mass.
A Priest can.

A Deacon can’t confect the Eucharist.
A Priest can.

A Deacon can’t hear Confessions or give absolution.
A Priest can.

A Deacon can’t preside at a wedding.
A Priest can.

A Deacon can’t give a person Last Rites.
A Priest can.

These are a few of the differences.

So then, there are benefits to being a Priest; and if you want those benefits you are forbidden to marry.

Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your heart. (Hebrews 3:7-8, Hebrews 3:15, Hebrews 4:7)

No, they are distinct Persons.

This simply doesn't fit YOUR perverse definition . . .

God is distinctly three Persons (and one).

This is my definition....and it is the true Trinity.

Call it perverse if you want.

You will be held accountable to God on the day of judgment for your judgment of the true definition of who He is as being perverse by your standards.

Calling God perverse....I wonder what the punishment for that will be?

btw, my understanding of the Trinity is more clearly defined in this thread:

True Trinity.

And you are completely dishonest because I already educated you about the history of 1 Tim. 4:1-2, and it has to do with the Gnostic Heretics – NOT the Church. They forbade marriage, forbade eating certain foods and rejected ALL material as evil.

So, you keep regurgitating your lie and I’ll keep exposing you for it . . .

1 Timothy 4:1-3 does indeed fit what happened later in church history with Catholic Priests being forbidden to marry.

That it also applied to the gnostics does not make it apply to the Catholic perversion any less.

If what I am saying is a lie, the way to expose it would be to proclaim the truth regarding it...but what you are proclaiming is not the truth; for you are saying that this passage applies only to certain within gnosticism when the shoe fits the Catholic practice of forbidding priests to marry also.

Repent of adhering to the Catholic Church therefore; for this is indeed an indictment upon it that is irrefutable to anyone with open eyes and an unbiased pov.

No.
It's with YOU and others like you here who choose to lie instead of being honest . . .

You have three fingers pointing back at you (see Matthew 7:1-6; Luke 6:41-42).

 

[Truther]

Yup.
Jesus gave them that power in John 20:21-23.

How did they remit sins?

 

[Truther]

No, because he's not forced.
Is ANY of this sinking in??

My 3rd grade Catechism.students didn't have this much difficulty understanding . . .

If he marries is he forced out of the clergy by someone?

 

[BreadOfLife]

If he marries is he forced out of the clergy by someone?

As I told you in post #622 - his BISHOP is the one who disciplines him.

Do you have a learning disability? I only ask because you are asking the same questions - repeatedly.
If you do - I apologize . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

How did they remit sins?

Have you never read the Bible??
The questions you are asking are EASILY answered by Scripture.

In John 20:21-23, Jesus (who is God) breathes on the Apostles as he is giving them this power:
Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

The fact that Jesus breathed on the Apostles when entrusted them with this ministry is highly significant because he doesn’t do this anywhere else in the New Testament. In fact, there are only two times in ALL of Scripture where God breathes on man:
The first is when he breathed life into Adam.
The second is here in John’s Gospel when he is giving them the power to forgive or retain sins.

Also - WHAT did the Father send Jesus here to do? He sent Him to bring about the FORGIVENESS of sins.
"As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
He didn't say this to the Apostles by accident.

Paul makes NO small case for this ministry of Reconciliation in 2 Cor. 5:18-20:
“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

In 2 Cor. 2:10, he states, “Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for you in the presence of Christ.”

In the Greek, the word “presence” here in this phrase is "Prosopone", which means Person. In the PERSON of Christ is a more correct translation. Paul was indicating that they were forgiving sins in the PERSON of Christ, which is translated into Latin as In Persona Christi.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Wrong.
Calvin may not have come up with the acronym of “T.U.L.I.P.” – but he invented the doctrines.

According to the Canon of Dort, written after Calvin died – Calvin himself taught Limited Atonement. It was AT the Synod of Dort that this view became acknowledged and accepted by Reformed theologians.
(Muller, Richard A. (2012). Calvin and the Reformed Tradition (Ebook ed.). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic. p. 53.)

As for Irresistible Grace – this was another invention of Calvin’s. Puritan scholar Perry Miller went so far as to describe Calvin's view of regeneration as "a forcible seizure, a holy rape of the surprised will."
That is DESPICABLE . . .
(Miller, Perry (June 1943), ""Preparation for Salvation" in Seventeenth-Century New England", Journal of the History of Ideas, University of Pennsylvania Press, 4)

Finally – Unconditional Election is ALSO a doctrine invented by John Calvin. It is listed in the Canons of Dort along with the others as having been taught by him.
(John Calvin (1559). "Of the Eternal Election (3.21.7)". Institutes of the Christian Religion)

Jesus aught what is known by the term Calvinism.
Calvinists believe Jesus.
All 5 points are taught in the gospel of John

 

[BreadOfLife]

So then, there are benefits to being a Priest; and if you want those benefits you are forbidden to marry.
Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your heart. (Hebrews 3:7-8, Hebrews 3:15, Hebrews 4:7)

Uh huh - but they're not forced.
EVERY man who enters the seminary knows this going in so it is 100% voluntary.

God is distinctly three Persons (and one).
This is my definition....and it is the true Trinity.
Call it perverse if you want.
You will be held accountable to God on the day of judgment for your judgment of the true definition of who He is as being perverse by your standards.
Calling God perverse....I wonder what the punishment for that will be?
btw, my understanding of the Trinity is more clearly defined in this thread:
True Trinity.

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/true-trinity.31183/
And as I told you before - YOUR version of the "Trinity" is a perversion of the Biblical Godhead.
- The Father is God.
- The Son is God.
- The Holy Spirit is God.
THREE distinct Persons in ONE God.
This is the God of the 2000 year-old Christian faith.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 does indeed fit what happened later in church history with Catholic Priests being forbidden to marry.

That it also applied to the gnostics does not make it apply to the Catholic perversion any less.

If what I am saying is a lie, the way to expose it would be to proclaim the truth regarding it...but what you are proclaiming is not the truth; for you are saying that this passage applies only to certain within gnosticism when the shoe fits the Catholic practice of forbidding priests to marry also.

Repent of adhering to the Catholic Church therefore; for this is indeed an indictment upon it that is irrefutable to anyone with open eyes and an unbiased pov.

You are either completely dishonest - or totally ignorant.
I think it's a little of BOTH.

1 Tim. 4:1-3 is about the Gnostic Heretics who were already taking root in the 1st century.
As I have educated you several times now - they forbade marriage, period. The Church doesn't.
It simply holds to a clerical discipline. Disciplines can and DO change.

They forbade meat and certain foods. the Church doesn't. We abstain from eating meat on Fridays during Lent as a practice of self-denial, which is BIBLICAL and draws us closer to God (Rom. 8:13, Col. 3:5, Gal. 5:24).

They rejected all material as evil. the Church doesn't.

So, your asinine comparison falls apart at the seams . . .

You have three fingers pointing back at you (see Matthew 7:1-6; Luke 6:41-42).

No, I don't because I haven't LIED on this board as you and other have . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus aught what is known by the term Calvinism.
Calvinists believe Jesus.
All 5 points are taught in the gospel of John

Actually - they're not.

The ONLY point that can be Biblically-proven in context is the "T" (Total Depravity) in "T.U.L.I.P.".
The other 4 points are a perversion of Scripture.

 

[justbyfaith]

Uh huh - but they're not forced.
EVERY man who enters the seminary knows this going in so it is 100% voluntary.

If he marries is he forced out of the clergy by someone?

As I told you in post #622 - his BISHOP is the one who disciplines him.

It remains that the Catholic Church places it as a condition for being in the ministry as a priest that they are forbidden to marry...and that this is indeed forced.

And as I told you before - YOUR version of the "Trinity" is a perversion of the Biblical Godhead.

not.

- The Father is God.
- The Son is God.
- The Holy Spirit is God.
THREE distinct Persons in ONE God.

This is what I believe.

However, all three Persons are also the same Person/God.

They forbade meat and certain foods. the Church doesn't. We abstain from eating meat on Fridays during Lent as a practice of self-denial, which is BIBLICAL and draws us closer to God (Rom. 8:13, Col. 3:5, Gal. 5:24).

Col 2:20, Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21, (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22, Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23, Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

No, I don't because I haven't LIED on this board as you and other have . . .

What lie have I proclaimed? (better use the quote feature):

I think that you are the one who is lying in that you are calling myself, and others here, liars.

In doing so, you are taking on the nature of the accuser (see Revelation 12:10-11).

 

[justbyfaith]

1 Tim. 4:1-3 is about the Gnostic Heretics who were already taking root in the 1st century.

It is talking about something that will happen in the latter times...and therefore could not have been referring to something that was happening as early as the 1st Century.

No, it is definitely talking about the practice in the Catholic Church of forbidding Catholic Priests to marry.

 

[justbyfaith]

1 Tim. 4:1-3 is about the Gnostic Heretics who were already taking root in the 1st century.
As I have educated you several times now - they forbade marriage, period.

I think I need documentation for this. I never heard of this being a practice of gnosticism.

 

[justbyfaith]

So, your asinine comparison falls apart at the seams . . .

I'm sure you want your children to follow your example in behaving like this.

 

[mjrhealth]

Jesus would ask me, "did you really think I was serious in Mark 16:16?".

He wouldnt have to you already judged them when you said, no man can be saved without water baptism. and so you have judged yourself. Good thing Jesus cares nought for mens ignorance,