The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Actually - they're not.

The ONLY point that can be Biblically-proven in context is the "T" (Total Depravity) in "T.U.L.I.P.".
The other 4 points are a perversion of Scripture.

All are the biblical truth.All were taught by Jesus and plain to see by believing sheep.

 

[Truther]

He wouldnt have to you already judged them when you said, no man can be saved without water baptism. and so you have judged yourself. Good thing Jesus cares nought for mens ignorance,

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


I said?

 

[Truther]

Have you never read the Bible??
The questions you are asking are EASILY answered by Scripture.

In John 20:21-23, Jesus (who is God) breathes on the Apostles as he is giving them this power:
Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

The fact that Jesus breathed on the Apostles when entrusted them with this ministry is highly significant because he doesn’t do this anywhere else in the New Testament. In fact, there are only two times in ALL of Scripture where God breathes on man:
The first is when he breathed life into Adam.
The second is here in John’s Gospel when he is giving them the power to forgive or retain sins.

Also - WHAT did the Father send Jesus here to do? He sent Him to bring about the FORGIVENESS of sins.
"As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
He didn't say this to the Apostles by accident.

Paul makes NO small case for this ministry of Reconciliation in 2 Cor. 5:18-20:
“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

In 2 Cor. 2:10, he states, “Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for you in the presence of Christ.”

In the Greek, the word “presence” here in this phrase is "Prosopone", which means Person. In the PERSON of Christ is a more correct translation. Paul was indicating that they were forgiving sins in the PERSON of Christ, which is translated into Latin as In Persona Christi.

You don't know how the Apostles remitted sins???....


Acts 2:38 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Now you know.

No confessional booth, just water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Truther]

As I told you in post #622 - his BISHOP is the one who disciplines him.

Do you have a learning disability? I only ask because you are asking the same questions - repeatedly.
If you do - I apologize . . .

The bishop represents the RCC.
Therefore the RCC forces the man to stay celibate....or else, lose your job.

Maybe they should start castrating them to be double sure?

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is talking about something that will happen in the latter times...and therefore could not have been referring to something that was happening as early as the 1st Century.

No, it is definitely talking about the practice in the Catholic Church of forbidding Catholic Priests to marry.

I think I need documentation for this. I never heard of this being a practice of gnosticism.

There are MANY things that happened in the first century that are spoken of as being future events. Anybody who reads Revelation would know this. Besides - Gnosticism is STILL around in many forms – just look around you.

The Apostles wrote about the “end times” as if they were loving IN those times. EVERY Letter has this sense of urgency that the Lord’s return was imminent - and not some “far off” event.

Anyway – the practices of the Gnostics morphed into what they eventually became – so it WAS a “future” event.

From the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary” – a PROTESTANT source:
As these Judaizing Gnostics combined the harlot or apostate Old Testament Church with the beast (Re 17:3), or Gnostic spiritualizing anti-Christianity, so Rome's Judaizing elements (1Ti 4:3) shall ultimately be combined with the open worldly-wise anti-Christianity of the false prophet or beast (1Ti 6:20, 21; Col 2:8; 1Jo 4:1-3; Re 13:12-15). Austerity gained for them a show of sanctity while preaching false doctrine (Col 2:23). Eusebius [Ecclesiastical History, 4.29] quotes from Irenæus [1.28] a statement that Saturninus, Marcion, and the Encratites PREACHED ABSTINENCE FROM MARRIAGE AND ANIMAL MEATS. Paul prophetically warns against such notions, the seeds of which already were being sown (1Ti 6:20; 2Ti 2:17, 18).

There's your documented proof . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

It remains that the Catholic Church places it as a condition for being in the ministry as a priest that they are forbidden to marry...and that this is indeed forced.

Is a married woman “forced” too be monogamous - OR, does she understand that this is part of her VOWS - before she gets married??

Is a police office “forced” to uphold the law – OR is this something they VOW to do??

Are ANY of the presidential candidates being “forced” to protect and defend this country should they become president – OR, is that a VOW that they will make??

YOUR view of a sacred vow is as perverse as your view of the Trinity . . .

not.
This is what I believe.

However, all three Persons are also the same Person/God.

Col 2:20, Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21, (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22, Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23, Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

What lie have I proclaimed? (better use the quote feature):

I think that you are the one who is lying in that you are calling myself, and others here, liars.

In doing so, you are taking on the nature of the accuser (see Revelation 12:10-11).

And what you believe about the Trinity is a perversion. You have invented another god – who is not the God of the Bible.
Good job . . .

As for which lie(s) you have promoted, for starters – you supported @ Truther’s lies by condemning me for exposing them.

You have also repeatedly lied about 1 Tim. 4:1-3 being about the Church and not the Gnostic Heretics – and now you’ve taken Col. 2 out of context to buttress that lie.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm sure you want your children to follow your example in behaving like this.

I want them to know the truth and to NOT be seduced by lies as YOU have been.

 

[BreadOfLife]

All are the biblical truth.All were taught by Jesus and plain to see by believing sheep.

No, they are 16th century man made inventions that are easily-refutable with Scripture.

You Calvinists have been had . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You don't know how the Apostles remitted sins???....

Acts 2:38 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Now you know.

No confessional booth, just water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

Uh huh – sooooooooo, what happens when they sinned AFTER they were Baptized.
THIS is why Jesus gave His Apostles the power to forgive sins in His name (John 20:21-23).

I LOVE your responses because you can’t refute the Scriptural evidence I present. ALL you can do is ask idiotic questions because a Scriptural debate would bury you . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The bishop represents the RCC.
Therefore the RCC forces the man to stay celibate....or else, lose your job.

Maybe they should start castrating them to be double sure?

And as I schooled your fellow anti-Catholic, @justbyfaith . . .

Is a married woman “forced” too be monogamous - OR, does she understand that this is part of her VOWS - before she gets married??

Is a police office “forced” to uphold the law – OR is this something they VOW to do??

Are ANY of the presidential candidates being “forced” to protect and defend this country should they become president – OR, is that a VOW that they will make??

Your idiotic view of a sacred vow is as uninformed as your opinions about the Catholic Church altogether . . .

 

[Truther]

And as I schooled your fellow anti-Catholic, @justbyfaith . . .

Is a married woman “forced” too be monogamous - OR, does she understand that this is part of her VOWS - before she gets married??

Is a police office “forced” to uphold the law – OR is this something they VOW to do??

Are ANY of the presidential candidates being “forced” to protect and defend this country should they become president – OR, is that a VOW that they will make??

Your idiotic view of a sacred vow is as uninformed as your opinions about the Catholic Church altogether . . .

If the priest breaks his vow, is he forced from the clergy?

Exactly, there is a religious, anti-scriptural statute in the RCC to keep the priest celibate....cannot touch a woman.

This is RCC law, enforced by the royal boot from the clergy(Bishop's boot).

It is not found in the Bible, but only in RCC commentary.

 

[Truther]

Uh huh – sooooooooo, what happens when they sinned AFTER they were Baptized.
THIS is why Jesus gave His Apostles the power to forgive sins in His name (John 20:21-23).

I LOVE your responses because you can’t refute the Scriptural evidence I present. ALL you can do is ask idiotic questions because a Scriptural debate would bury you . . .

You mean the RCC does not remit sins in the name of Jesus Christ VIA water baptism like your first Pope, Peter did?

Don't tell me you guys don't obey your first Pope?

When did you guys eliminate water baptism for the remission of sins per Peter in Acts 2:38, to have a priest remit sins instead?

 

[BreadOfLife]

You mean the RCC does not remit sins in the name of Jesus Christ VIA water baptism like your first Pope, Peter did?

Don't tell me you guys don't obey your first Pope?

When did you guys eliminate water baptism for the remission of sins per Peter in Acts 2:38, to have a priest remit sins instead?

As usual – you didn’t address my last post where I asked you - What happens when they sinned AFTER they were Baptized??
Do they do what I see a lot of Protestants do and get RE-Baptized??

Why don’t YOU obey Christ??
What do YOU think Jesus was doing in John 20:21-23??

 

[BreadOfLife]

If the priest breaks his vow, is he forced from the clergy?

Exactly, there is a religious, anti-scriptural statute in the RCC to keep the priest celibate....cannot touch a woman.

This is RCC law, enforced by the royal boot from the clergy(Bishop's boot).

It is not found in the Bible, but only in RCC commentary.

In your usual cowardly fashion, you didn't address the questions in my last post:

Is a married woman “forced” too be monogamous - OR, does she understand that this is part of her VOWS - before she gets married??

Is a police office “forced” to uphold the law – OR is this something they VOW to do??

Are ANY of the presidential candidates being “forced” to protect and defend this country should they become president – OR, is that a VOW that they will make??

Why are you so afraid to answer these questions??

 

[justbyfaith]

There's your documented proof . . .

Thank you.

As for which lie(s) you have promoted, for starters – you supported @ Truther’s lies by condemning me for exposing them.

For one thing, you have not proven that they are lies....secondly, I have not condemned you for exposing them...rather, I have rebuked the spirit in which you think that you have exposed them.

You have also repeatedly lied about 1 Tim. 4:1-3 being about the Catholic Church

That is not a lie.

and now you’ve taken Col. 2 out of context to buttress that lie.

You should really consider how that scripture applies to the discussion.

And as I schooled your fellow anti-Catholic, @justbyfaith . . .

I do not consider myself to be an anti-Catholic. Protestant, yes. But I am not against Catholics. I want them to be saved just as much as I want the atheist to be saved.

In your usual cowardly fashion,

Why are you so afraid to answer these questions??

More of the same.

I really think that you need an attitude adjustment.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, they are distinct Persons.

This simply doesn't fit YOUR perverse definition . . .

And what you believe about the Trinity is a perversion. You have invented another god – who is not the God of the Bible.
Good job . . .

I will chalk these statements up to persecution for righteousness' sake.

Even as Paul said:

Act 24:14, But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

 

[justbyfaith]

The following thread gives biblical justification for the doctrine of the Trinity as it is identified in the creeds:

True Trinity.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I will chalk these statements up to persecution for righteousness' sake.

Even as Paul said:

Act 24:14, But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

That’s funny.
I chalk up YOUR invention about the Trinity to Exod. 20:2-3, which says:

"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me."

YOU have invented another god before Him who created you Good luck with that . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thank you.

For one thing, you have not proven that they are lies....secondly, I have not condemned you for exposing them...rather, I have rebuked the spirit in which you think that you have exposed them.

That is not a lie.
You should really consider how that scripture applies to the discussion.

I do not consider myself to be an anti-Catholic. Protestant, yes. But I am not against Catholics. I want them to be saved just as much as I want the atheist to be saved.

More of the same.

I really think that you need an attitude adjustment.

I don’t think I need an “attitude adjustment” so much as I need for my opponents on this forum to stop lying. It’s like a disease with you anti-Catholics.

And yes, you ARE an anti-Catholic, which is defined NOT as a person who simply “disagrees” with Catholic Theology.

An anti-Catholic is a person who will go to ANY lengths to decry the Catholic Church and its teachings - and will not stop at lying.

 

[Truther]

In your usual cowardly fashion, you didn't address the questions in my last post:

Is a married woman “forced” too be monogamous - OR, does she understand that this is part of her VOWS - before she gets married??

Is a police office “forced” to uphold the law – OR is this something they VOW to do??

Are ANY of the presidential candidates being “forced” to protect and defend this country should they become president – OR, is that a VOW that they will make??

Why are you so afraid to answer these questions??

They make vows.

So, what happens if they break their vows to the entities involved...problems.

What happens to the priest that breaks his vow?.....the bishop's boot.

The priest is stuck in his situation, just wishing he could be with a woman(sometimes same sex), but the bishop is watching him closely.

Losing one's job and health insurance is at stake.....to remain celibate.