The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

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justbyfaith

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Next time – STUDY your Bible – don’t just quote it . . .

Condescending...

That’s not true.
There are other ministries that allow marriage – such as the permanent diaconate.

What do they get to do?

Do they get to preach the gospel?

The Trinity is:
The Father, who is NOT the Son OR the Holy Spirit.
The Son, who is NOT the Father OR the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit, who is NOT the Father OR the Son.

He is ONE God manifested in THREE distinct Persons.
ANY other definition of God is not Christian.

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct, not separate; even according to the creeds.
 

Truther

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And there you go showing your ignorance again.

First of all - Priestly celibacy isn’t a matter of Church “Law”. It’s a matter if discipline, Einstein - similar to abstaining from meat on Fridays during Lent. Disciplines can and DO change.

Anyway, your comparison is foolish because nobody is “forced” to become a Priest.
It is optional, so, ultimately, priestly celibacy is also optional.
You mean priests can get married or leave the priesthood to marry?
 

BreadOfLife

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You mean priests can get married or leave the priesthood to marry?
Can married people just leave or remarry when they get tired of their spouse?
Ask a dumb question . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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What do they get to do?

Do they get to preach the gospel?
Yup - they preach the Gospel, Baptize, preside at wakes/Rosaries, assist with the Sacraments, etc.
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct, not separate; even according to the creeds.
ONE God - THREE distinct Persons.
That's what I said.

I never said they were "separate" - however:
The Father is NOT the Son OR the Holy Spirit.
The Son is NOT the Father OR the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father OR the Son.

THAT'S what the Creeds say . . .
 

Helen

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This is not God's will?...


16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


Time you quit...you sound like a broken record..
You spin but get nowhere...your impressing no one.

You are building a tower on one scripture...yet many more verses are against you on this.

You are obsessed with this...you have made yourself an Idol out water baptism , and made IT your saviour , rather than Jesus Christ and what He has done on the cross. ✟

Change your channel and talk about something else for a change ...or is that the only thing you are interested in.
You are getting boring. Y A W N.....
 

Truther

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Time you quit...you sound like a broken record..
You spin but get nowhere...your impressing no one.

You are building a tower on one scripture...yet many more verses are against you on this.

You are obsessed with this...you have made yourself an Idol out water baptism , and made IT your saviour , rather than Jesus Christ and what He has done on the cross. ✟

Change your channel and talk about something else for a change ...or is that the only thing you are interested in.
You are getting boring. Y A W N.....
Quit teaching Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38?

That would be the worst mistake I could ever make.

I will leave that to others.
 

mjrhealth

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This is not God's will?...


16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
I can just see you, standing there with Jesus, and He shows you a group of people, and asks, these gave there lives to me none are baptized, what should i do with them.. And before you even answer His call will be , come enter in, you are worthy. But for you, and what should lI do with you, you "judged" these as unworthy for salvation, should therefore I not judge you with the same judgement you have judges them... You know that " depart from me you worker of iniquity".

Mat_7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat_7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

as Christ put it

Mar_7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
 

mjrhealth

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Time you quit...you sound like a broken record..
You spin but get nowhere...your impressing no one.

You are building a tower on one scripture...yet many more verses are against you on this.

You are obsessed with this...you have made yourself an Idol out water baptism , and made IT your saviour , rather than Jesus Christ and what He has done on the cross. ✟

Change your channel and talk about something else for a change ...or is that the only thing you are interested in.
You are getting boring. Y A W N.....
Like so many the bible is His God...
 
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Anthony D'Arienzo

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No – Calvin had it wrong when it came to Biblical foreknowledge.

God is outside of time and sees ALL of eternity simultaneously. He knows exactly who chose Him and who rejected Him.

Calvin, however, turned God into a monster who drags people kicking and screaming into Heaven against their will - and throws people kicking and screaming into Hell against their will. This is NOT how Scripture describes the process – and this is NOT love.

John 3:16 states emphatically that:
For God so LOVED THE WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 Tim. 2:3-4 tells us in NO uncertain terms:
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires ALL PEOPLE TO BE SAVED and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

When Jesus was rebuking the Pharisees in Jerusalem, he shouted:
Matt. 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and YOU WERE NOT WILLING.


In short – it is OUR choice because God is above ALL things, as JUST God.
He doesn’t force His love – OR His justice on anybody.
This typical caricature is totally wrong.
That is not the teaching at all.
If you desire to disagree ,try and accurately describe what is taught.
 
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Truther

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I can just see you, standing there with Jesus, and He shows you a group of people, and asks, these gave there lives to me none are baptized, what should i do with them.. And before you even answer His call will be , come enter in, you are worthy. But for you, and what should lI do with you, you "judged" these as unworthy for salvation, should therefore I not judge you with the same judgement you have judges them... You know that " depart from me you worker of iniquity".

Mat_7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat_7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

as Christ put it

Mar_7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Jesus would ask me, "did you really think I was serious in Mark 16:16?".
 

BreadOfLife

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No. Now, can a priest marry?
If not, why not?
No – it’s a stupid question because we;’ve been over this ad nauseam.

Not sure how many times you need to be told that priestly celibacy is a Church discipline – but I’m starting to worry about you . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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This typical caricature is totally wrong.
That is not the teaching at all.
If you desire to disagree ,try and accurately describe what is taught.
Soooooo, Calvin DIDN’T teach . . .
Unconditional Election – which teaches that God does not base his choice (election) of certain people on anything other than his own good will? That God chooses whomever he pleases and passes over the rest??

Limited Atonement – which teaches that Christ offered His sacrifice for some men but not for ALL??
That Christ died only for the “elect”??

Irresistible Grace
– which teaches that when God gives a person saving grace, the person always responds and never rejects this grace??

Calvin DIDN’T teach these things?
Is that what you’re saying?

The monster that Calvin invented described above is NOT the God of Scripture.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Soooooo, Calvin DIDN’T teach . . .
Unconditional Election – which teaches that God does not base his choice (election) of certain people on anything other than his own good will? That God chooses whomever he pleases and passes over the rest??

Limited Atonement – which teaches that Christ offered His sacrifice for some men but not for ALL??
That Christ died only for the “elect”??

Irresistible Grace
– which teaches that when God gives a person saving grace, the person always responds and never rejects this grace??

Calvin DIDN’T teach these things?
Is that what you’re saying?

The monster that Calvin invented described above is NOT the God of Scripture.
Calvin did not teach those things, scripture does and Calvin and millions of others embrace these truths.
Sorry you do not like the biblical God as He is indeed revealed in scripture.
To call God names and invent your own substitute God will not get it done.
Now if you want to offer scripture to support your ideas we will respond to that and offer help
 

BreadOfLife

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Calvin did not teach those things, scripture does and Calvin and millions of others embrace these truths.
Sorry you do not like the biblical God as He is indeed revealed in scripture.
To call God names and invent your own substitute God will not get it done.
Now if you want to offer scripture to support your ideas we will respond to that and offer help
You are a dishonest poster.
Calvin absolutely taught the false doctrines of Uncolditional Election, Limited Atonement and Irresistible Grace.
This is well-documented in his 5 Points or "T.U.L.I.P." theology.
 
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Truther

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No – it’s a stupid question because we;’ve been over this ad nauseam.

Not sure how many times you need to be told that priestly celibacy is a Church discipline – but I’m starting to worry about you . . .
You just admitted that to be a priest, you must abstain from any sex.
Do they also enforce the lust toward women that Jesus spoke of as adultery?
Are they lust free by abstinence?
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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You are a dishonest poster.
Calvin absolutely taught the false doctrines of Uncolditional Election, Limited Atonement and Irresistible Grace.
This is well-documented in his 5 Points or "T.U.L.I.P." theology.
It was the followers of Calvin who came up with the 5 points.
You are another one who has no clue yet boasts foolishly.
Let me guess...another Rc.
 
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BreadOfLife

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You just admitted that to be a priest, you must abstain from any sex.
Do they also enforce the lust toward women that Jesus spoke of as adultery?
Are they lust free by abstinence?
I “admitted” that a priest must abstain from sex??
That’s not an “admission”, Einstein – it’s been my case ALL along.

As for lust - NOBODY is free to lust. EVERY person who lusts sins, according to Jesus (Matt. 5:28).
What kind of moronic question is that?
 

BreadOfLife

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It was the followers of Calvin who came up with the 5 points.
You are another one who has no clue yet boasts foolishly.
Let me guess...another Rc.
Wrong.
Calvin may not have come up with the acronym of “T.U.L.I.P.” – but he invented the doctrines.

According to the Canon of Dort, written after Calvin died – Calvin himself taught Limited Atonement. It was AT the Synod of Dort that this view became acknowledged and accepted by Reformed theologians.
(Muller, Richard A. (2012). Calvin and the Reformed Tradition (Ebook ed.). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic. p. 53.)

As for Irresistible Grace – this was another invention of Calvin’s. Puritan scholar Perry Miller went so far as to describe Calvin's view of regeneration as "a forcible seizure, a holy rape of the surprised will."
That is DESPICABLE . . .
(Miller, Perry (June 1943), ""Preparation for Salvation" in Seventeenth-Century New England", Journal of the History of Ideas, University of Pennsylvania Press, 4)

Finally – Unconditional Election is ALSO a doctrine invented by John Calvin. It is listed in the Canons of Dort along with the others as having been taught by him.
(John Calvin (1559). "Of the Eternal Election (3.21.7)". Institutes of the Christian Religion)
 

justbyfaith

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Yup - they preach the Gospel, Baptize, preside at wakes/Rosaries, assist with the Sacraments, etc.

What is the difference, then, between these and those who are not allowed to marry?

My question after this is, if the privileges be the same, our best bet is to become one of these rather than an actual priest; so that we can have the privilege of being able to marry the one we love. Why then even have the office of priest?

The Father is NOT the Son OR the Holy Spirit.
The Son is NOT the Father OR the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father OR the Son.

If this is the case then the members of the Godhead are separate rather than distinct.

Not sure how many times you need to be told that priestly celibacy is a Church discipline

It is a fulfillment of 1 Timothy 4:1-3...

1Ti 4:1, Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2, Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


You are a dishonest poster.

As is everyone else that you come across on these boards. Did you ever stop to think that the problem might not be with everyone else but with you?

Mat 7:2, For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3, And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4, Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5, Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.