The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Enoch111]

The false concept that Christ died for all men without exception, is a distorted doctrine that minimizes the effects and consequences of Christ death, in order to give man credit for the efficaciousness of Christ work, this is a work of the enemy.

When will you wake up to the fact that you have been promoting HERESY even since you joined this board?

What will it take to show you that you are in fact undermining the one great sacrifice for sins forever with your nonsense about Christ dying only for the elect?

In the end it means that you do not really believe God and Christ, but prefer the doctrines of men. So if there is a work of the enemy, it is your false doctrine (which no one else, or hardly anyone else, holds to).

 

[brightfame52]

When will you wake up to the fact that you have been promoting HERESY even since you joined this board?

What will it take to show you that you are in fact undermining the one great sacrifice for sins forever with your nonsense about Christ dying only for the elect?

In the end it means that you do not really believe God and Christ, but prefer the doctrines of men. So if there is a work of the enemy, it is your false doctrine (which no one else, or hardly anyone else, holds to).

I have been witnessing the Gospel !

 

[Enoch111]

I have been witnessing the Gospel !

A distorted gospel is not the Gospel. And God does not take kindly to distorted gospels.

 

[brightfame52]

Those of you who believe the false teaching that Jesus Christ died for all without exception, believe that there are those Christ died for that will go to hell, indicating that its not the cross of Christ, His death that saves one from being lost. You are saying that it is not His death that makes the216 difference of who is saved or lost.

 

[Addy]

Daring to limit God's generosity has always been the message of the self absorbed and greedy. Though not seeing God's overwhelming generosity towards themselves even, they insist it is not for certain others.....how presumptions!

What he said.

 

[Tong2020]

Post 1117, did u read it and understand it ?

Yes I did sir. And you are only talking about one of the things accomplished by Jesus Christ.

So as I said, unless one realize that the death of Christ was not only as a sacrificial offering for the forgiveness of sins, he will continue to have problems with scriptures that speak of other things accomplished by the death of Christ. I have told you another thing that Jesus’ death accomplished, that is different from justification, that is atonement for the whole world (1 John 2:2). But you seem to not take time to look into the word “propitiation” so that you just have to take the “whole world” as not to mean the whole world, even while that is said in distinction and addition to the Christians.

Tong
R2487

 

[Tong2020]

brightfame52 said: ↑
The false concept that Christ died for all men without exception, is a distorted doctrine that minimizes the effects and consequences of Christ death, in order to give man credit for the efficaciousness of Christ work, this is a work of the enemy.

When will you wake up to the fact that you have been promoting HERESY even since you joined this board?

What will it take to show you that you are in fact undermining the one great sacrifice for sins forever with your nonsense about Christ dying only for the elect?

In the end it means that you do not really believe God and Christ, but prefer the doctrines of men. So if there is a work of the enemy, it is your false doctrine (which no one else, or hardly anyone else, holds to).

There more than one purpose that Christ died. It is not only as a sacrificial offering for the forgiveness of the sins of those whom His Father have given to Him to save unto eternal life. It is also an offering for the atonement of the whole world, who all have sinned, which saved all men from the wrath of God, from being destroyed by God as was with the men in the generation of Noah. So, in the former, Christ died not for all men, but in the latter, Christ died not only for the Christians, but also for the rest of the living then and those who will be born in the future.

Also @brightfame52 .

Tong
R2488

 

[brightfame52]

Yes I did sir. And you are only talking about one of the things accomplished by Jesus Christ.

So as I said, unless one realize that the death of Christ was not only as a sacrificial offering for the forgiveness of sins, he will continue to have problems with scriptures that speak of other things accomplished by the death of Christ. I have told you another thing that Jesus’ death accomplished, that is different from justification, that is atonement for the whole world (1 John 2:2). But you seem to not take time to look into the word “propitiation” so that you just have to take the “whole world” as not to mean the whole world, even while that is said in distinction and addition to the Christians.

Tong
R2487

Lol, that what I am talking about is what ? What was accomplished ?

 

[brightfame52]

There more than one purpose that Christ died. It is not only as a sacrificial offering for the forgiveness of the sins of those whom His Father have given to Him to save unto eternal life. It is also an offering for the atonement of the whole world, who all have sinned, which saved all men from the wrath of God, from being destroyed by God as was with the men in the generation of Noah. So, in the former, Christ died not for all men, but in the latter, Christ died not only for the Christians, but also for the rest of the living then and those who will be born in the future.

Also @brightfame52 .

Tong
R2488

See title of thread !

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Yes I did sir. And you are only talking about one of the things accomplished by Jesus Christ.

So as I said, unless one realize that the death of Christ was not only as a sacrificial offering for the forgiveness of sins, he will continue to have problems with scriptures that speak of other things accomplished by the death of Christ. I have told you another thing that Jesus’ death accomplished, that is different from justification, that is atonement for the whole world (1 John 2:2). But you seem to not take time to look into the word “propitiation” so that you just have to take the “whole world” as not to mean the whole world, even while that is said in distinction and addition to the Christians.

Lol, that what I am talking about is what ? What was accomplished ?

You are only talking about the death of Christ for the salvation of His people, His church, His sheep, unto eternal life.

Do you not realize the death of Christ also was for the salvation of the whole world from being destroyed such as God did to the generation of Noah, whom God had poured out His wrath upon and killed them all, except 8 persons who were saved by His grace? That is atonement for the whole world.

Tong
R2499

 

[Tong2020]

See title of thread !

Why?

Tong
R2500

 

[brightfame52]

You are only talking about the death of Christ for the salvation of His people, His church, His sheep, unto eternal life.

Do you not realize the death of Christ also was for the salvation of the whole world from being destroyed such as God did to the generation of Noah, whom God had poured out His wrath upon and killed them all, except 8 persons who were saved by His grace? That is atonement for the whole world.

Tong
R2499

See thread subject

 

[brightfame52]

Why?

Tong
R2500

Why u think ?

 

[brightfame52]

That Christ saved all for whom He died is proved by the various scripture analogies that Paul uses, especially in Rom 5.

I have witnessed to that fact in this thread under the heading of Rom 5:15 !

You see, Those Christ died for had a union with Him when He died and rose again.

This is Paul's point when He declares:

The fact that by the disobedience of one, that being Adam, many were made sinners ! Not offered to be made sinners, not being made sinners if they choose to be with their freewill, but they were, like it or not, made sinners..

Now this implies that those being made sinners had a life in Adam when Adam disobeyed God; now how was that true ? How did those who had a life in Adam and sinned when Adam sinned and died when He died ?

All men were created in Adam is collaborated in Acts 17:26

26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Our Physical lives were present in Adam in the beginning when God said this:

Gen 1:26

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Thats why when Adam sinned, them sinned also by their being in union with Adam.

And now likewise, the fact of the obedience of one, and that one being the Lord Jesus Christ, many shall be made righteous ! not offered to be made righteous, not given a chance to be made righteous, but they are made righteous just as effectively as those being made sinners were.

This to implies that those who shall be made righteous had a life in Jesus Christ when He performed His act of obedience to God see Phil 2:8 ! Now how was that True, how did those lives get into Christ for His obedience to work effectively on their behalf ?

Paul says in 1 Cor 1:30


30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Of Him means its of God, that some were in Christ Jesus. They were in Him as they were in Adam, and as they experience the effects of Adam whom they had life in, so likewise they will experience the effects of Christ whom they had life in.

When Christ died for sin, their sins, they died 2 Cor 5:15

that if one died for all, then were all dead:

and when Christ rose from the dead after dying for their sins, they rose from the dead with Him, Justified of their sins He died for Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus

So this being said, Christ died only for those who had a union and life in Him, and this could not be said of those who Christ will soon say these words to:

Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

For Christ did know intimately all those who had life and union with Him when He died on the cross for their sins.238

 

[brightfame52]

Scriptures that show the efficaciousness of the death of Christ, that it actually saves, and so those who are not being saved, Christ did not die for them.

Jn 12:23-24

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.


Christ saving death is how He is Glorified.

Jesus here in these verses is speaking of Himself and the Church, His body. For it shall come forth out of death with Him, a Living and Spotless Church, Justified by His blood and righteousness.

Its a faithful saying, if we be dead with Him, that is died when He died [ 2 Cor 5:14-15] we shall also live with Him, that is experience the power of His resurrection..

All for whom He died, will be raised from spiritual death, begotten unto a lively hope, how ? By the resurrection from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

So as Jesus states in Jn 12:24, His death [ to include His resurrection] brings forth much fruit. That is, it actually produces positive results and benefits for them He died.249

 

[brightfame52]

The word fruit in Jn 12:24

Jesus stated [speaking of His death and being Glorified thereby] that if a corn of wheat [Himself] falls to the ground [His crucifixion and death] and dies, It [Himself, the corn of wheat] bringeth forth
much fruit..

That is He is the effective cause via His death of bring forth or producing fruit ..

The greek word for fruit is:

karpos and means:

the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity

He brings forth much posterity, his progeny, or His seed..

For this is spoken of in Isa 53 as a result of His sufferings for those He bare their iniquities notice:

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

That word seed is the hebrew zera` which means:

offspring, descendants, posterity, children

And this seed or posterity shall serve Him...as per Ps 22:30

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

Now look at vs 26 of John 12 right after Jesus speaks about bringing forth fruit in vs 24 :

26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

You see, Jesus through His vicarious death will produce a seed that shall serve Him.

This seed will be of all races of people, that is He will draw all races to Him, to serve Him.

And we know this is not the case for all men without exception, so therefore Christ death could not have been for all men without exception, unless it failed to bear fruit.

 

[Daniel Veler]

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:11,15

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:8

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the seed of the serpent Gen 3:15 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.

Christ died for the church. Grace opened the door to anyone who hears the gospel to call on his name and be saved. If you don’t believe that you must be prepared to call Peter a liar with his message on Pentecost.

 

[brightfame52]

Scriptures that show the efficaciousness of the death of Christ !

We know that Christ death was not for all without exception because of its efficaciousness in producing saving results.
It shall make many righteous Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
No less than Adams disobedience making many sinners by nature and practice, Christ obedience [His Death Phil 2:8] shall make many righteous in nature and practice.251

 

[brightfame52]

Christ died for the church. Grace opened the door to anyone who hears the gospel to call on his name and be saved. If you don’t believe that you must be prepared to call Peter a liar with his message on Pentecost.

Do you want to discuss the points made or not ?

 

[quietthinker]

Scriptures that show the efficaciousness of the death of Christ !

We know that Christ death was not for all without exception because of its efficaciousness in producing saving results.
It shall make many righteous Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
No less than Adams disobedience making many sinners by nature and practice, Christ obedience [His Death Phil 2:8] shall make many righteous in nature and practice.251

'many' is a reference to all...the context declares it.