The Narrow Way

[Strat]

Alone has nothing to do with full time or not... Honestly, I don't see what you are talking about in Johnny's post at all. :huh:

What Johnny is speaking of is the need we have for each other. We are not on our own complete. This is true physically, one works and provides this way, another is in the ministry full time, etc. But it is even more true spiritually. We have the mind of Christ, together. When we come together under the same vision and direction from God, then God is among us. He lives in us individually, and among us as a group.

This is something most of the church has completely lost; the shared life.

The disciples shared everything, they lived together, they shared meals... And Christ was among them. Meeting two hours a week is a complete and absolutely different reality. It does not require sharing more than a few words and a big room. It does not require sacrifice. We must live and die for each other... John 3:16 is one of today's most popular verse... But we are in dire need of understanding 1st John 3:16


1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Those are not just pretty words... They are the height of the standard of what forms the church. 'You will know them by their love' implies a sacrificial and absolutely radical love for the brethren, that gives everything as Christ gave everything. We are to follow his example in this way, and give our lives up for the brethren. A disciple cannot have a separate private life... It is poured out for the brethren.

Who is going to decide how much time is enough time,if you are pepared to critcise what people are doing surely you can povide a clear standard, as far as laying down one's life you must remember this is America and our time of real trial and persecution has not come yet....opportunities for doing so are fats approaching.

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that this is what I was saying, my post said nothing about having a secular job or not.

The topic was fellowship with the brethern - what does that have to do with a job?


Amen!
This is exactly right.

Fellowship and work take time,along with family responsabilities,we have a 24 hour day,we sleep on average 8 hours a day and i don't know about you but it has been years since i was only required to work 8 hours at a job then you have different schedules...i worked nights for two years...on and on it goes...people have to work and care for their families,perhaps the shared life is understanding this and not adding on extra guilt trips and burdens that accomplish nothing.

Who is going to decide how much time is enough time,if you are pepared to critcise what people are doing surely you can povide a clear standard, as far as laying down one's life you must remember this is America and our time of real trial and persecution has not come yet....opportunities for doing so are fats approaching.


Fellowship and work take time,along with family responsabilities,we have a 24 hour day,we sleep on average 8 hours a day and i don't know about you but it has been years since i was only required to work 8 hours at a job then you have different schedules...i worked nights for two years...on and on it goes...people have to work and care for their families,perhaps the shared life is understanding this and not adding on extra guilt trips and burdens that accomplish nothing.This reminds me of how inconsiderate people who retire become about how other people use time,since they now have an abundance of time they forget what it was like to have most of your time taken from you.

 

[Prentis]

Who is going to decide how much time is enough time,if you are pepared to critcise what people are doing surely you can povide a clear standard, as far as laying down one's life you must remember this is America and our time of real trial and persecution has not come yet....opportunities for doing so are fats approaching.

Why do you try to make a criteria? Why do you want something YOU can measure is enough? This is human reasoning, and humans seeking to justify themselves.

Enough is everything. No, that does not mean you spend every minute serving and being with the brethren. One person goes to work 8 hours a day... etc. But we give our whole lives. The work we do, we do for the Lord, the house we have, we share it if the brothers have need and we open it to our brothers.

Persecution only comes once we are already living the sacrificial life... The powers only want to kill us when we are living in a way that threatens them.

Every brother we can share our life with and walk together with, become one with, is an opportunity to lay down our life.

Men love to count... But when they do this with the gospel, they miss the heart of God. God gives extravagantly, without counting, and without expecting anything in return, and this is the way he desires for us to give ourselves to him and the brethren around us. This has nothing to do with criticism... This is about calling men into the church, and calling men to what God has called us to.

 

[dragonfly]

Persecution only comes once we are already living the sacrificial life... The powers only want to kill us when we are living in a way that threatens them.

Every brother we can share our life with and walk together with, become one with, is an opportunity to lay down our life.

Men love to count... But when they do this with the gospel, they miss the heart of God. God gives extravagantly, without counting, and without expecting anything in return, and this is the way he desires for us to give ourselves to him and the brethren around us. This has nothing to do with criticism... This is about calling men into the church, and calling men to what God has called us to.

Hi Prentis,

This is a good word, and perhaps in time to come, you will understand better the choices to which Strat refers, which place additional strains on different family members, and affect whether one can attend as many prayer meetings or worship meetings as are available. There are many different ways to be 'all' out for the Lord, and it's most important that each person is free to pursue God as He leads them.

 

[Episkopos]

We are totally free. It is just that few will be able to follow the narrow path.

Luk_13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.



It is like the invitation to the wedding feast...not everyone is capable of attending. Can a person help it if they have just gotten married or purchased oxen?

 

[Strat]

Why do you try to make a criteria? Why do you want something YOU can measure is enough? This is human reasoning, and humans seeking to justify themselves.

Enough is everything. No, that does not mean you spend every minute serving and being with the brethren. One person goes to work 8 hours a day... etc. But we give our whole lives. The work we do, we do for the Lord, the house we have, we share it if the brothers have need and we open it to our brothers.

Persecution only comes once we are already living the sacrificial life... The powers only want to kill us when we are living in a way that threatens them.

Every brother we can share our life with and walk together with, become one with, is an opportunity to lay down our life.

Men love to count... But when they do this with the gospel, they miss the heart of God. God gives extravagantly, without counting, and without expecting anything in return, and this is the way he desires for us to give ourselves to him and the brethren around us. This has nothing to do with criticism... This is about calling men into the church, and calling men to what God has called us to.

The bible contains plenty of criteria,the synonym of which is standards....the message of this thread,unless i'm mistaken is that the standard is not being met, so i ask who determines the standard or criteria ?

We are totally free. It is just that few will be able to follow the narrow path.

Luk_13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.



It is like the invitation to the wedding feast...not everyone is capable of attending. Can a person help it if they have just gotten married or purchased oxen?

So like i suspected you think that passage prohibits anyone from being involved in any secular pursuits at all instead of simply adressing the issue of priorities in one's life...funny you mentioned marriage....i guess the bible is both for and against marriage.....kind of like todays politicians who vote for something before voting against it

 

[Prentis]

The bible contains plenty of criteria,the synonym of which is standards....the message of this thread,unless i'm mistaken is that the standard is not being met, so i ask who determines the standard or criteria ?

The standard is everything. We have examples of the standard being met in the word.... Of men sharing everything. But what tells us we match up to that example? We have the same experience!

Where two or three are gathered in my name, here I am, says the Lord. So we know we are gathered together properly, under him, in his name, when his presence, life and power are there. Men make their own standards... They read the word, which speaks of disciples doing many many things. They choose one thing, do it, say 'I did that', and boom they consider themselves disciples and they think they are worthy of the same honor in eternity as those the word speaks of...

But this is man justifying himself.

Christ puts the standard forward very simply. Everything. Our whole life is to be poured out as a sacrifice. If one has a house, it is for the Lord and the brethren, if one has a gift, it is for the body.

So like i suspected you think that passage prohibits anyone from being involved in any secular pursuits at all instead of simply adressing the issue of priorities in one's life...funny you mentioned marriage....i guess the bible is both for and against marriage.....kind of like todays politicians who vote for something before voting against it

The bible is not against marriage and that is not the point being made. The point is this, when Jesus walked by the disciples and said 'you, come and follow me' they did leave everything.... Houses, wives... There is a time for this to literally happen. But for the disciple, it is always the time for one to give everything. For an apostle, that looks like leaving everything behind, for Philemon, a rich man, it looks like sharing all his blessings with the brothers. He uses his blessings for the good of the body, he is living sacrificially.

Anything less than this is not discipleship.

 

[Episkopos]

The bible contains plenty of criteria,the synonym of which is standards....the message of this thread,unless i'm mistaken is that the standard is not being met, so i ask who determines the standard or criteria ?



So like i suspected you think that passage prohibits anyone from being involved in any secular pursuits at all instead of simply adressing the issue of priorities in one's life...funny you mentioned marriage....i guess the bible is both for and against marriage.....kind of like todays politicians who vote for something before voting against it

Actually...should God wait for openings in our busy schedules before doing the work of the kingdom? Does not Jesus call us to forsake everything to follow Him? For most, this cost is too high. Complaining about this requirement is utter futility. You cannot change the word of God.

Where is our real commitment?

What is our real priority?

Will God not test us to see?

The word reveals our condition. Do we ask.... What if I have a job, children to support??? etc... But is this not part of the "all"?? Is God a powerless tyrant that demands without giving?

 

[Prentis]

The word reveals our condition. Do we ask.... What if I have a job, children to support??? etc... But is this not part of the "all"?? Is God a powerless tyrant that demands without giving?

Yes! Our reaction only reveals in our unbelief... If we say 'how, how can I leave everything??' we show have no faith in the provision of God. If you obey him, will he not provide for us? But men do not want to obey, so they lower the standard to fit what they feel they can go without.

But this is wrong, we cannot conform the standard to us... Only conform ourselves to the standard. If it says everything, then everything it is.

 

[Episkopos]

It is funny that everyone trusts God for sustenance in the community in the heavenlies after death...just almost no one can so trust God in THIS life. Who will look after the children after you are gone? Will you forbid God from taking you away from your responsibilities?

THIS is the death...the calling of God on our lives.

God can look after things better than we can.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Episkopos,

It is like the invitation to the wedding feast...not everyone is capable of attending. Can a person help it if they have just gotten married or purchased oxen?

If it was that simple, why was 'the master of the house ... angry [saying] to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind'?

Isn't this rather a parable which indicates God's priorities - which we should adopt as ours - and a tacit warning. Matt 8:12

 

[Strat]

Actually...should God wait for openings in our busy schedules before doing the work of the kingdom? Does not Jesus call us to forsake everything to follow Him? For most, this cost is too high. Complaining about this requirement is utter futility. You cannot change the word of God.

Where is our real commitment?

What is our real priority?

Will God not test us to see?

Why not just say what you mean instead of all the scripture quoting....that no one can have a job or own any property and must be involved in full time ministry in order to enter the kingdom of God....just say it and get it over with....the bible does say that our first priority should be God but does not forbid fullfilling our duties in other areas of life...the very use of the word priorities suggest suggest an order of allegiance....your logic seems to suggest that the number one eliminates the existence of the numbers 2,3,4 and so on....the charge that one is worse than an unbeleiver if they do not care for those of their own household comes to mind...again,does the bible contradict it's self.

Where is our real commitment ? since each person lives in different circumstances God alone is the only one who knows

What is our real priority ? same answer

Will God test us ? sure he will,he test everyone who claims to follow him if he has first accepted them as a follower.....Abraham was allowed to keep his son once he had shown he was willing to give him up.

 

[JohnnyB]

Who is going to decide how much time is enough time,if you are pepared to critcise what people are doing surely you can povide a clear standard, as far as laying down one's life you must remember this is America and our time of real trial and persecution has not come yet....opportunities for doing so are fats approaching.


Fellowship and work take time,along with family responsabe have a 24 hour day,we sleep on average 8 hours a day and i don't know about you but it has been years since i was only required to work 8 hours at a job then you have different schedules...i worked nights for two years...on and on it goes...people have to work and care for their families,perhaps the shared life is understanding this and not adding on extra guilt trips and burdens that accomplish nothing.

Strat,

When I speak of a shared life, I am including people who have secular jobs and work many hours. God uses people in all circumstances, we are the light in the world. I go to public school.

We have men in our fellowship who work, but their family needs are taken care of by the community. We own homes, we own cars, it's not like we are amish, although we could learn alot from them. We share the gospel in our daily activities. We see every opportunity as God ordained, He brings plenty of challenges, many blessings, and in all of it, He is glorified. It is powerful.

The point is we take care of one another, we share all we have, I just mowed a brother's lawn because his wife is taking care of a friend who has cancer. We see needs and we fill them. We don't see one another as friends, we view one another as family members, and we are. We have our own roles to play, but we are still one in Christ.

We do not call it a full time ministry, we call it life.

 

[Strat]

Strat,

When I speak of a shared life, I am including people who have secular jobs and work many hours. God uses people in all circumstances, we are the light in the world. I go to public school.

We have men in our fellowship who work, but their family needs are taken care of by the community. We own homes, we own cars, it's not like we are amish, although we could learn alot from them. We share the gospel in our daily activities. We see every opportunity as God ordained, He brings plenty of challenges, many blessings, and in all of it, He is glorified. It is powerful.

The point is we take care of one another, we share all we have, I just mowed a brother's lawn because his wife is taking care of a friend who has cancer. We see needs and we fill them. We don't see one another as friends, we view one another as family members, and we are. We have our own roles to play, but we are still one in Christ.

We do not call it a full time ministry, we call it life.

Yes i agree,but that is not what the OP wrote or supported

 

[us2are1]

Mat_7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Most (even true) Christians experience the first but are entirely ignorant of the way in Christ that is meant to follow. This is the sign of the times where the middle class ideals have infiltrated the church completely.

Many of us suffer much loss before we find the gate which is Jesus Christ. But afterwards we look forward to finishing our lives in much the same way as other people...

What is the narrow way?

Well let's look at the broad way first..

The Broad Way: Having our own possessions, maintaining a private life that suits us, choosing things for ourselves, maintaining a comfortable distance from other believers...seeking happiness!!!!!

The Narrow Way: Having all things in common with the brethren...maintaining a sacrificial life that testifies to Christ...submission to the Spirit in all areas of life...being grafted in community of the Spirit with other members of the Beloved as a witness to the selfless love of Christ....seeking to please God.

Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


And all that believed... This means that those who had already believed continued their lives in a new and living way. A renewed corporate way of life is required to bring out the power of the new life received individually. A believer is to continue in the path of faith...unto the fulness of Christ. Is this an individual pursuit? Of course not! Our western culture seeks the individual attainment...not so Christ.

We see the narrow way very clearly in the bible...but few indeed (especially among white middle class westerners that have all they want) will even consider to actually follow in the footsteps of Christ along the narrow way. Most are content with having gone through the doorway.

Many are called but few are chosen.

Christ is the way. You must first realize that you have no life in you and move into Christ. Christ is the example. Be imitators of god as dear children.

 

[Strat]

it's to the glory of God to conceal a thing.....the rest of us just need to quit flattering ourselves and say what we mean.

 

[JohnnyB]

Yes i agree,but that is not what the OP wrote or supported

I just reread the OP! It is the same. Nothing is our own, we share all we have, there is nothing solo about the way live.

Satan's scheme is to divide, he has taught western society that what we own is ours alone, individualism is best, to each his own, this is my life and I will live it anyway I choose.

All of this is in direct opposition of Christ's teachings.

 

[Strat]

I just reread the OP! It is the same. Nothing is our own, we share all we have, there is nothing solo about the way live.

Satan's scheme is to divide, he has taught western society that what we own is ours alone, individualism is best, to each his own, this is my life and I will live it anyway I choose.

All of this is in direct opposition of Christ's teachings.

Then why are we commanded not to covet ? how can you covet what is already yours ? i understand the concept of sharing but one has no right to what belongs to another or to make claims on it...it is the choice of the one who it belongs to to use wisdom and discernemnt....." this is my life and i will live it my way" is a corrupted definition of individualism....God created us as individuals with different talents,skills and perspectives to contribute to the collective or the body,but just like we will stand and give an account individually before God we also have to walk our own path,i cannot live your life and you cannot live mine which is one of the main reasons why we are told not to judge one another.

I come from a Mormon background so i know all about group ownership of the individual...none of it is new to me.

 

[Prentis]

Then why are we commanded not to covet ? how can you covet what is already yours ? i understand the concept of sharing but one has no right to what belongs to another or to make claims on it...it is the choice of the one who it belongs to to use wisdom and discernemnt....." this is my life and i will live it my way" is a corrupted definition of individualism....God created us as individuals with different talents,skills and perspectives to contribute to the collective or the body,but just like we will stand and give an account individually before God we also have to walk our own path,i cannot live your life and you cannot live mine which is one of the main reasons why we are told not to judge one another.

I come from a Mormon background so i know all about group ownership of the individual...none of it is new to me.

This is beside the point...

The purpose of this thread is to speak of the sacrificial lifestyle that is required of a disciple. Why do you fight it?

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Strat,

I come from a Mormon background so i know all about group ownership of the individual...none of it is new to me.

I don't think true 'Church' with Jesus Christ as Head, is 'group ownership' as you've experienced it, but I 'hear' you with my spirit and I know exactly what you're talking about, as I spent about a decade in a one-off church, whose leader turned us into a cult. Not all of what I want to say to Prentis will be applicable to your thoughts and feelings (maybe) but I know what it is to need to be cut some slack while God restores and recreates in mind, body and soul - inner man - and all of that takes a toll on one's strength for a sustained season.


Hi Prentis,

The purpose of this thread is to speak of the sacrificial lifestyle that is required of a disciple. Why do you fight it?

I think that's an unfair question. In this case, you should be trying understand what 'group ownership' in an occult organisation like Mormonism, does to a person over an extended period; and you should rejoice with your brother that he has been delivered from it, and pray for him to find full restoration as he yields himself to the healing power of God in Christ. Jesus Christ came to make men whole in every way.

And God is merciful to those whose healing may take long time, in that He does not hold back His calling or gifts to them for service. And, He uses them in ways which others, who have not been through the same mill, cannot be used. All this is the economy of God. Rom 14:4

I hope this doesn't sound harsh. It is not intended to, but, it's intended to open your eyes to the goodness and graciousness of God to those who have had their heads bent (I include myself in this category) by happenings beyond their control at some earlier stage in life.

You know, Satan has no scruples about bruising very very small children, and the more you minister to people who have deep mental and emotional needs, the more you will realise that God does not protect us from our carers. This is not an ideal world. But in Him, there is every resource for health and wholeness, that every disadvantage be overcome, every hurt be healed, every sin be forgiven.

It's a wonderful salvation which many believers do not fully realise to the glory of God, but in so saying, that doesn't mean the reception of all its benefits can be instantly and consciously appropriated and assimilated. God's does a deep and thorough work over time.

 

[Strat]

This is beside the point...

The purpose of this thread is to speak of the sacrificial lifestyle that is required of a disciple. Why do you fight it?

No it is not beside the point,if you read the original post and way the the narrow and broad ways are described you will see what i am speaking of....the bible does not forbid individuals from having posessions,making choices in their lives,having a certain degree of privacy in their homes and lives and does not make communal living a requirement of salvation...that is exactly what he is saying....community yes,sharing yes,sacrifice yes...posession of people by people no.

The practise of creating single scripture doctrie that contradicts the rest of the bible is very common here and would give any athist or skeptic a field day.