The Narrow Way

[Prentis]

Again...this is not a final judgment issue for the individual...but a corporate issue for overcoming the world.

Yes! God is in each of us individually if we are his people, but it is when we come together that he is among us. The issue here is about establishing the kingdom on earth... Not a person's salvation. That might help clarify the angle of the thread. :)

 

[dragonfly]

Okay, 'the kingdom on earth'...... What I'm about to say might seem an oblique interpretation but it is the one which makes the most sense to me.

Normally when I share it, I get the impression no-one understands, so.... I won't hold my breath ;). All I ask is, that you think about it. I will try to give a bit more explanation this time, in case I haven't given enough in the past. Then I'll reach for my hard hat - ;) :huh:

God's solution to world peace is, that everyone should receive a new heart and a new spirit and walk in the Holy Spirit so no-one is fulfilling the lusts of the flesh. We all know the verses which describe the lusts of the flesh and of the mind, and the sins of the flesh, and we all know the main BIble characters whose lives demonstrated various different outworkings of sins - killing, fearfulness, lying, idolatry, anger, adultery, conspiracy - to name but a few. In the OT, these people carried on living their lives walking with God - even some idolaters - but, once the New Covenant arrived there is a terrible difference brought to bear by the presence of the Holy Spirit of Truth in the lives of those who have believed in Christ.

It appears from the fate of Ananias and Sapphira, that there is no more tolerance for deception...... deception being the trait which characterised the serpent's conversation with Eve. The teachings of Christ are full of honesty, and as a result, Peter said in Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but to God. Peter picks up on the lying/deception, while also covetousness/idolatry could be brought into the equation. Either way, the issue is to do with the heart, and whether it's now outworking that its affections are set on things above, or, it is fulfilling the bent of its first birth. Rom 12:2

Paul picks up in Romans 6:16, and Peter in 2 Peter 2:19b '... for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage', what Jesus had taught in John 8:'... Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Rom 6:7

Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

The whole reckoning oneself dead process, includes learning to discern between the issues which Paul elucidates in 2 Corinthians 10:'... I beseech [you], that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


So, what is all that about?

It's about 'The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof...' Psa 24:1 It's about the kingdom of God being within the heart, the Holy Spirit having full control of the heart, and therefore, of what comes out of the mouth; it's about James 4 (most of the chapter); it's about my yielding everything to God. Everything. It's about submitting to His will and His leadership/direction, with joy and thanksgiving, abiding there until His life is oozing out of every area of my life, and continuing to receive His enabling to do all that He commands me. Phil 1:19, 20. It's about my flesh serving the life of God which is in my by the Spirit.

If everyone in the world had already got to this happy state, evangelism would be obsolete. So it's obvious this hasn't happened yet, but... as far as it it is in my power to yield to the Lord, it can happen in my life. This is the beginning of the kingdom of heaven on earth - when the kingdom of God is within me and He is my Lord and my King in such a way that my having been born from above, is what my life expresses. 2 Thess 1:10, Matt 7:20. It's also obvious that what Jesus means by our 'overcoming the world', is through He that is in us, who is greater than he who is in the world - John 16:33, Matt 12:41, 42, John 4:12, John 8:53, John 10:29, 1 John 4:4. Eph 2:2 - the spirit that now works - 2 Cor 4:3, 4,

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life', John 15:1 - 4.

The 'earth' that does all the damage on this planet, is the human heart and the body it controls, and that's the 'earth' which needs to be ruled by God first, exalting Christ, so that others will be drawn to Him and let Him reign over their hearts from within. Col 3:15

Anything which tends to draw us back to reason and think like the world, or to do things the world's way as a means to obtain an end which we believe God would approve, has to be suspect. One only need read of the many battles which God won for Israel supernaturally, to understand that sometimes the victory is in standing still and worshipping God, and not in any of our own doings.


Here is an interesting perspective from Oswald Chambers:

The Commission of the Call


Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for His body's sake. — Col 1:24

We make calls out of our own spiritual consecration, but when we get right with God He brushes all these aside, and rivets us with a pain that is terrific to one thing we never dreamed of, and for one radiant flashing moment we see what He is after, and we say – "Here am I, send me."

This call has nothing to do with personal sanctification, but with being made broken bread and poured-out wine. God can never make us wine if we object to the fingers He uses to crush us with. If God would only use His own fingers, and make me broken bread and poured-out wine in a special way! But when He uses someone whom we dislike, or some set of circumstances to which we said we would never submit, and makes those the crushers, we object. We must never choose the scene of our own martyrdom. If ever we are going to be made into wine, we will have to be crushed; you cannot drink grapes. Grapes become wine only when they have been squeezed.

I wonder what kind of finger and thumb God has been using to squeeze you, and you have been like a marble and escaped? You are not ripe yet, and if God had squeezed you, the wine would have been remarkably bitter. To be a sacramental personality means that the elements of the natural life are presenced by God as they are broken providentially in His service. We have to be adjusted into God before we can be broken bread in His hands. Keep right with God and let Him do what He likes, and you will find that He is producing the kind of bread and wine that will benefit His other children.


~ My Utmost for His Highest, 30th September ~

 

[Episkopos]

Okay, 'the kingdom on earth'...... What I'm about to say might seem an oblique interpretation but it is the one which makes the most sense to me.

Normally when I share it, I get the impression no-one understands, so.... I won't hold my breath ;). All I ask is, that you think about it. I will try to give a bit more explanation this time, in case I haven't given enough in the past. Then I'll reach for my hard hat - ;) :huh:

God's solution to world peace is, that everyone should receive a new heart and a new spirit and walk in the Holy Spirit so no-one is fulfilling the lusts of the flesh. We all know the verses which describe the lusts of the flesh and of the mind, and the sins of the flesh, and we all know the main BIble characters whose lives demonstrated various different outworkings of sins - killing, fearfulness, lying, idolatry, anger, adultery, conspiracy - to name but a few. In the OT, these people carried on living their lives walking with God - even some idolaters - but, once the New Covenant arrived there is a terrible difference brought to bear by the presence of the Holy Spirit of Truth in the lives of those who have believed in Christ.

It appears from the fate of Ananias and Sapphira, that there is no more tolerance for deception...... deception being the trait which characterised the serpent's conversation with Eve. The teachings of Christ are full of honesty, and as a result, Peter said in Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but to God. Peter picks up on the lying/deception, while also covetousness/idolatry could be brought into the equation. Either way, the issue is to do with the heart, and whether it's now outworking that its affections are set on things above, or, it is fulfilling the bent of its first birth. Rom 12:2

Paul picks up in Romans 6:16, and Peter in 2 Peter 2:19b '... for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage', what Jesus had taught in John 8:'... Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Rom 6:7

Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

The whole reckoning oneself dead process, includes learning to discern between the issues which Paul elucidates in 2 Corinthians 10:'... I beseech [you], that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


So, what is all that about?

It's about 'The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof...' Psa 24:1 It's about the kingdom of God being within the heart, the Holy Spirit having full control of the heart, and therefore, of what comes out of the mouth; it's about James 4 (most of the chapter); it's about my yielding everything to God. Everything. It's about submitting to His will and His leadership/direction, with joy and thanksgiving, abiding there until His life is oozing out of every area of my life, and continuing to receive His enabling to do all that He commands me. Phil 1:19, 20. It's about my flesh serving the life of God which is in my by the Spirit.

If everyone in the world had already got to this happy state, evangelism would be obsolete. So it's obvious this hasn't happened yet, but... as far as it it is in my power to yield to the Lord, it can happen in my life. This is the beginning of the kingdom of heaven on earth - when the kingdom of God is within me and He is my Lord and my King in such a way that my having been born from above, is what my life expresses. 2 Thess 1:10, Matt 7:20. It's also obvious that what Jesus means by our 'overcoming the world', is through He that is in us, who is greater than he who is in the world - John 16:33, Matt 12:41, 42, John 4:12, John 8:53, John 10:29, 1 John 4:4. Eph 2:2 - the spirit that now works - 2 Cor 4:3, 4,

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life', John 15:1 - 4.

The 'earth' that does all the damage on this planet, is the human heart and the body it controls, and that's the 'earth' which needs to be ruled by God first, exalting Christ, so that others will be drawn to Him and let Him reign over their hearts from within. Col 3:15

Anything which tends to draw us back to reason and think like the world, or to do things the world's way as a means to obtain an end which we believe God would approve, has to be suspect. One only need read of the many battles which God won for Israel supernaturally, to understand that sometimes the victory is in standing still and worshipping God, and not in any of our own doings.


Here is an interesting perspective from Oswald Chambers:

The Commission of the Call


Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for His body's sake. — Col 1:24

We make calls out of our own spiritual consecration, but when we get right with God He brushes all these aside, and rivets us with a pain that is terrific to one thing we never dreamed of, and for one radiant flashing moment we see what He is after, and we say – "Here am I, send me."

This call has nothing to do with personal sanctification, but with being made broken bread and poured-out wine. God can never make us wine if we object to the fingers He uses to crush us with. If God would only use His own fingers, and make me broken bread and poured-out wine in a special way! But when He uses someone whom we dislike, or some set of circumstances to which we said we would never submit, and makes those the crushers, we object. We must never choose the scene of our own martyrdom. If ever we are going to be made into wine, we will have to be crushed; you cannot drink grapes. Grapes become wine only when they have been squeezed.

I wonder what kind of finger and thumb God has been using to squeeze you, and you have been like a marble and escaped? You are not ripe yet, and if God had squeezed you, the wine would have been remarkably bitter. To be a sacramental personality means that the elements of the natural life are presenced by God as they are broken providentially in His service. We have to be adjusted into God before we can be broken bread in His hands. Keep right with God and let Him do what He likes, and you will find that He is producing the kind of bread and wine that will benefit His other children.


~ My Utmost for His Highest, 30th September ~

Jer_31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Pious Jews have always lived in the same neighbourhood...so they understand the above verses far more than Gentiles. A lone Jew living apart from his people is not a devout Jew. As long as Christians live as the non pious Jews, the effect and force of the presence of God in the midst of the disciples goes unharnessed. The people of God are not meant to be sprinkled in the world as individuals...but rather are meant to be a light in the ecclesia of God....together. What overcomes the world is the multiplication of our faith in the plurality of the Body.

This reminds me of a scene in the movie "Gladiator" where assembling together as a body to face the assault overcame the ones who were supposed to pick them off individually. Without the wisdom of the military minded man (played by Crowe) they would have been as defeated as the modern church is today. Locking shields works in the Spirit too!! Those who ignore this have never tried it.

God works in the individual to be sure...but the purpose is not to create lone rangers. We are actually given spiritual gifts for others. As we let the gifts flow through us to the brethren around us we experience both Christ IN us and Christ AMONG us.

It is both.

The church has failed largely through the dependence on the individual to "do it all". This flies in the face of the strategy of God who distributes gifts throughout the body for the edification of all.

Heb_10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


In the past Christianity was a personal individual pursuit...and the church failed to change the world this way. Who will try Christianity God's way?

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Episkopos,

I cannot pretend I'm not perturbed by your apparent intolerance of the places and lifestyles which God has ordained for some of His children, which do not comply with the practical paradigm you promote. I am not speaking against laying our lives down for the brethren, nor against loving one another, but all of that has to happen in the greater context of each individual's obedience to God. It is God who chooses where a believer is to live, and the believer agrees with God in reality by obeying Him. Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation.


Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me. — John 17:6

The missionary is one in whom the Holy Ghost has wrought this realization – "Ye are not your own." To say, "I am not my own" is to have reached a great point in spiritual nobility. The true nature of the life in the actual whirl is the deliberate giving up of myself to another in sovereign preference, and that other is Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit expounds the nature of Jesus to me in order to make me one with my Lord, not that I might go off as a showroom exhibit. Our Lord never sent any of the disciples out on the ground of what He had done for them. It was not until after the Resurrection, when the disciples had perceived by the power of the Holy Spirit Whom He was, that Jesus said "Go."

"If any man come to me and hate not . . . , he cannot be My disciple," not, he cannot be good and upright, but, he cannot be one over whom Jesus writes the word "Mine." Any one of the relationships Our Lord mentions may be a competitive relationship. I may prefer to belong to my mother, or to my wife, or to myself; then, says Jesus, you cannot be My disciple. This does not mean I will not be saved, but it does mean that I cannot be "His."

Our Lord makes a disciple His own possession, He becomes responsible for him. "Ye shall be witnesses unto Me." The spirit that comes in is not that of doing anything for Jesus, but of being a perfect delight to Him. The secret of the missionary is – I am His, and He is carrying out His enterprises through me.

Be entirely His.'


~ My Utmost for His Highest, 4th September ~




Now, please be clear that I'm not suggesting for a moment, that you are not obeying God's call on your life.

All I'm saying is the obvious - that it is God who calls, God who equips and empowers for His purpose, and God who holds the believer steady as he walks in it. We find fellowship with others who are being obedient to God first. Fellowship flounders when the natural man or the carnal man takes back even a tiny bit of the control which was originally yielded to God fully and unconditionally.

I really hope you can see that if God has the details of your life all taken care of, He does that for other Christians, too - His way?

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Episkopos,

I cannot pretend I'm not perturbed by your apparent intolerance of the places and lifestyles which God has ordained for some of His children, which do not comply with the practical paradigm you promote. I am not speaking against laying our lives down for the brethren, nor against loving one another, but all of that has to happen in the greater context of each individual's obedience to God. It is God who chooses where a believer is to live, and the believer agrees with God in reality by obeying Him. Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation.


Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me. — John 17:6

The missionary is one in whom the Holy Ghost has wrought this realization – "Ye are not your own." To say, "I am not my own" is to have reached a great point in spiritual nobility. The true nature of the life in the actual whirl is the deliberate giving up of myself to another in sovereign preference, and that other is Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit expounds the nature of Jesus to me in order to make me one with my Lord, not that I might go off as a showroom exhibit. Our Lord never sent any of the disciples out on the ground of what He had done for them. It was not until after the Resurrection, when the disciples had perceived by the power of the Holy Spirit Whom He was, that Jesus said "Go."

"If any man come to me and hate not . . . , he cannot be My disciple," not, he cannot be good and upright, but, he cannot be one over whom Jesus writes the word "Mine." Any one of the relationships Our Lord mentions may be a competitive relationship. I may prefer to belong to my mother, or to my wife, or to myself; then, says Jesus, you cannot be My disciple. This does not mean I will not be saved, but it does mean that I cannot be "His."

Our Lord makes a disciple His own possession, He becomes responsible for him. "Ye shall be witnesses unto Me." The spirit that comes in is not that of doing anything for Jesus, but of being a perfect delight to Him. The secret of the missionary is – I am His, and He is carrying out His enterprises through me.

Be entirely His.'


~ My Utmost for His Highest, 4th September ~




Now, please be clear that I'm not suggesting for a moment, that you are not obeying God's call on your life.

All I'm saying is the obvious - that it is God who calls, God who equips and empowers for His purpose, and God who holds the believer steady as he walks in it. We find fellowship with others who are being obedient to God first. Fellowship flounders when the natural man or the carnal man takes back even a tiny bit of the control which was originally yielded to God fully and unconditionally.

I really hope you can see that if God has the details of your life all taken care of, He does that for other Christians, too - His way?

I am specifically speaking of the bride of Christ. Many things are done in the name of Christ...through a denominational allegiance.... or whatever. But the word remains...

The bride of Christ is seen when each member is inter-connected. We are members of EACH OTHER!!!

Rom_12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Eph_4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.




One can hold this as a mystical union that has no bearing on our modern lifestyle. We can dichotomize or Greekify the bible so that it fits neatly into our society. But there is the cross to consider. As rich westerners we have no choice but to have all in common in order to be not guilty of the excesses of our generation. We are called out of our old lifestyles... We need to show the principalities something else...something that is related to the kingdom of God. This is how we fight the good fight...together. We spoil the enemy through a non seeking of a private individual life. We spoil the enemy through the refusal of Mammon and all the idols thrown our way. We come out of the bondage of security and into the "insecurity" of faith. We live for each other. Only then can God triumph and exult over the enemy!!! Of course there is a backlash to this...persecution. And this is what people seek to avoid at all costs. Most want to slide in to life without causing waves. They don't want to get the enemy riled up. But where is the glory for God in this???

2Ti_3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

When you live a life of spoiling the enemy publicly...then you can expect to join the ranks of the saints through the retaliation of the prince of this world. Churchgoers don't bother the principalities...rather they serve them.

Jesus promises much to the overcomers....and nothing to those who don't overcome. How do we overcome....are we Rambos??? Or do we learn to love one another as Jesus did? Do we come together to defeat the principalities or live our life in the expectation of going from a good life to a good life?

Few westerners understand that God has no favourites. He doesn't love rich white westerners and hate poor dark skinned people. We Christians will be compared to every person who has ever lived. If people have lived a more righteous life without the Holy Spirit than a Christian WITH the Holy Spirit...then that person will be cut off from the kingdom.

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

This is western Christianity in a nutshell.

 

[Strat]

I am specifically speaking of the bride of Christ. Many things are done in the name of Christ...through a denominational allegiance.... or whatever. But the word remains...

The bride of Christ is seen when each member is inter-connected. We are members of EACH OTHER!!!

Rom_12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Eph_4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.




One can hold this as a mystical union that has no bearing on our modern lifestyle. We can dichotomize or Greekify the bible so that it fits neatly into our society. But there is the cross to consider. As rich westerners we have no choice but to have all in common in order to be not guilty of the excesses of our generation. We are called out of our old lifestyles... We need to show the principalities something else...something that is related to the kingdom of God. This is how we fight the good fight...together. We spoil the enemy through a non seeking of a private individual life. We spoil the enemy through the refusal of Mammon and all the idols thrown our way. We come out of the bondage of security and into the "insecurity" of faith. We live for each other. Only then can God triumph and exult over the enemy!!! Of course there is a backlash to this...persecution. And this is what people seek to avoid at all costs. Most want to slide in to life without causing waves. They don't want to get the enemy riled up. But where is the glory for God in this???

2Ti_3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

When you live a life of spoiling the enemy publicly...then you can expect to join the ranks of the saints through the retaliation of the prince of this world. Churchgoers don't bother the principalities...rather they serve them.

Jesus promises much to the overcomers....and nothing to those who don't overcome. How do we overcome....are we Rambos??? Or do we learn to love one another as Jesus did? Do we come together to defeat the principalities or live our life in the expectation of going from a good life to a good life?

Few westerners understand that God has no favourites. He doesn't love rich white westerners and hate poor dark skinned people. We Christians will be compared to every person who has ever lived. If people have lived a more righteous life without the Holy Spirit than a Christian WITH the Holy Spirit...then that person will be cut off from the kingdom.

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

This is western Christianity in a nutshell.

How's the weather up there ?

 

[Episkopos]

How's the weather up there ?

At what time?

 

[Episkopos]

Luk 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
Luk 6:25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets

Are we getting along just fine on our own in this world? Then there is a big problem. The kingdom of God is at odds with the world the way it presently is. Do we live that tension? Are we rich and full? Then we will fare poorly at the judgment. God has no favourites.

Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
Luk 6:21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
Luk 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Are we really on the path of blessing? Are we poor, in need, downtrodden, outcast, and hated? Or do we fit in rather nicely in the world? Have we made a separate peace with the devil?...I won't bother you if you don't bother me???

The sign of a true Christian is that he lives in a way that counters everything that men normally seek for...personal wealth and security, personal happiness, good friends, and a sense of personal well being. These a disciple of Christ has forsaken to be a light of the way of the kingdom here.

We as rich westerners are in for a huge shock on judgment day. Jesus Christ does not speak idly.

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

We too easily write off Jesus' words as being only pertaining to hidden things....we spiritualize His commands and warnings. But the call of Christ on our lives is total. It encapsulates everything we are and do. So unless our outward lives reflect the radical walk of Christ, then we are being lukewarm...treating the truth as a concept that never costs us anything in our way of life.

 

[rand]

Good post Episkopos, I agree with a lot of what you said. But do we really follow Christ's example? Do we raise the dead, heal the sick, and cast out demons? Or do criticize those that try? Maybe this is the way to life that so few people find. It doesn't say the gate to eternal life is one that so few people find. In fact the book of revelation tells us that there will be many people in heaven--there was a multitude so great that no one can count, from every tribe nation, and tongue.

Jesus did tell His disciples to go out and heal the sick, raise the dead and cast out devils. Do we do that or do we spiritualize that too by saying he only meant this for those disciples? The last couple of verses in Mathew, Jesus tells them to teach us to do EVERYTHING he has shown them. Hebrews 6:1-3 calls these things (laying on of hands--healing, raising the dead, repentance, ect.) the milk of the Gospel: the baby food. Maybe this is the narrow gate that leads to life that so few people find. It sounds like it to me. Anyway, I'm open to it, and I'm asking God daily to show me. I'm tired of believing the lies of man who make a full doctrine out of some of the Bible and not incorperating all of it.

Can't recall where it is right now, but you remember? 'is anyone sick? call the elders to pray and the prayer of FAITH will heal the sick' it doesn't say pray and God will heal the sick. So what do we do? We pray, 'God, if it be your will, please heal...' That's not faith, that's hope. Jesus came to reveal the Father. Jesus only said what He heard the Father say, and only did what He saw the father doing. Jesus healed everyone that came to him--everyone. He never put sickness or curses on anyone. I don't know about you people, but to me that is revealing.

There is no good thing in me except Jesus--but that's way more than enough. I am nothing without Him, but I will never have to be without Him ever again. Amen.

 

[Strat]

At what time?

Anytime,you write lots of lofty words designed to make OTHER people feel inadequate and guilty for simply working and caring for their families...easy to do with a computer and when nobody knows you or how you live...you have access to a computer so life can't be that badThe west has been receptive to Christianity for a long time now but that is going to change and the persecution you desire so much will come...living in Canada i doubt you suffer much persecution and i suspect you are not missing any meals or sleeping out on the cold streets of Montreal...but hold on its coming....this period of time is unusual in history and will not last.

 

[Episkopos]

Anytime,you write lots of lofty words designed to make OTHER people feel inadequate and guilty for simply working and caring for their families...easy to do with a computer and when nobody knows you or how you live...you have access to a computer so life can't be that badThe west has been receptive to Christianity for a long time now but that is going to change and the persecution you desire so much will come...living in Canada i doubt you suffer much persecution and i suspect you are not missing any meals or sleeping out on the cold streets of Montreal...but hold on its coming....this period of time is unusual in history and will not last.

FEEL ???? The bible was never meant for people feelings. We would all be wise to heed the words of the Lord. The brethren exhort one another daily to live up to the standard of Christ. We will not be persecuted for being lukewarm. Only when we take the words of the Lord to heart and follow in His steps will we the adversary taking measures to minimize the damage to his kingdom. I am not looking for persecution...but for victory in Christ. We want to see the saints ruling with Christ. The whole of creation awaits this.

 

[Strat]

FEEL ???? The bible was never meant for people feelings. We would all be wise to heed the words of the Lord. The brethren exhort one another daily to live up to the standard of Christ. We will not be persecuted for being lukewarm. Only when we take the words of the Lord to heart and follow in His steps will we the adversary taking measures to minimize the damage to his kingdom. I am not looking for persecution...but for victory in Christ. We want to see the saints ruling with Christ. The whole of creation awaits this.

It will come in due time...people will have every oppotunity to suffer,starve and experience every kind of misery they need to to "feel" like they are good christians and that will get them into heaven.

 

[Episkopos]

It will come in due time...people will have every oppotunity to suffer,starve and experience every kind of misery they need to to "feel" like they are good christians and that will get them into heaven.

We must suffer as a Christian to experience growth in Christ. Our society is geared so that we don't need to suffer. But are we following society or Christ? I think we moderns often look at Jesus' words as ideals....not to be lived by normal mortals. So we write off His warnings and teachings and place them in the realm of fantasy.

Others have tried to "take the land" and been defeated...so they become as the 10 spies who seek to discourage the people from entering into the promises of God. Is the narrow way easy? Of course not...Jesus tells us that it is difficult and few will try it let alone succeed in it. Jesus says they will be unable. Why??? A refusal to suffer and learn the ways of God that leads to a selfless love and patience in our characters.

So we have a church that is geared AGAINST growth in Christ. Many are taught that they have already arrived at the beginning of the race....never bringing fruit into maturity.

 

[Strat]

We must suffer as a Christian to experience growth in Christ. Our society is geared so that we don't need to suffer. But are we following society or Christ? I think we moderns often look at Jesus' words as ideals....not to be lived by normal mortals. So we write off His warnings and teachings and place them in the realm of fantasy.

Others have tried to "take the land" and been defeated...so they become as the 10 spies who seek to discourage the people from entering into the promises of God. Is the narrow way easy? Of course not...Jesus tells us that it is difficult and few will try it let alone succeed in it. Jesus says they will be unable. Why??? A refusal to suffer and learn the ways of God that leads to a selfless love and patience in our characters.

So we have a church that is geared AGAINST growth in Christ. Many are taught that they have already arrived at the beginning of the race....never bringing fruit into maturity.

We live in a world filled with suffering,sorry it is not as bad as you would have it to be...what in incredible statement to make...you need to check your "christianity" for two reasons....who appointed you to decide who is suffering enough and who is not and in the face of so much suffering who appointed you to decide what type is acceptable and please tell me what kind of society would be able to to extract the maximum amount of suffering from its people.... i doubt Canada is such a society and have to wonder why you live there,why not move to Egypt where they are literally crucifying christians

 

[Episkopos]

We live in a world filled with suffering,sorry it is not as bad as you would have it to be...what in incredible statement to make...you need to check your "christianity" for two reasons....who appointed you to decide who is suffering enough and who is not and in the face of so much suffering who appointed you to decide what type is acceptable and please tell me what kind of society would be able to to extract the maximum amount of suffering from its people.... i doubt Canada is such a society and have to wonder why you live there,why not move to Egypt where they are literally crucifying christians

Again you are looking at self not towards the Lord and the kingdom. The most lost people in the world are here in the western nations. What better place to stand against the principalities?

 

[Strat]

Again you are looking at self not towards the Lord and the kingdom. The most lost people in the world are here in the western nations. What better place to stand against the principalities?

How much are you suffering ? perhaps its not enough to get you into heaven

 

[Episkopos]

How much are you suffering ? perhaps its not enough to get you into heaven

Do you understand this?

1Pe_4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;


or
this?

2Co_4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

 

[Strat]

Do you understand this?

1Pe_4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;


or
this?

2Co_4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

I understand them,suffering comes in our lives,i understand that to...there are seasons of suffering but making life hard in some vain attempt to justify yourself is futile...like i said before, i'm sorry that there isn't enough suffering in this world to please you,perhaps you need to get out more and are spending too much time in the holy sanctuary.... one of the fruits of spirit is patience...be patient because much suffering is just around the corner.

 

[Episkopos]

I understand them,suffering comes in our lives,i understand that to...there are seasons of suffering but making life hard in some vain attempt to justify yourself is futile...like i said before, i'm sorry that there isn't enough suffering in this world to please you,perhaps you need to get out more and are spending too much time in the holy sanctuary.... one of the fruits of spirit is patience...be patient because much suffering is just around the corner.

I am only presenting what the bible presents. We can wait to have things forcibly taken from us as you are referring to...or we can willingly give up on our temporal pursuits for the sake of the kingdom. With the latter option comes a reward.

 

[Strat]

I am only presenting what the bible presents. We can wait to have things forcibly taken from us as you are referring to...or we can willingly give up on our temporal pursuits for the sake of the kingdom. With the latter option comes a reward.

The bioble does not prohibit one from working and making a living and not being a burden to others with our needs that God gave us talents and abilities to provide for....try as you may it doesn't prohibit it..i know you want it to but it doesn't...does it prohibit greed and covetousness yes it does,it tells us to be content with what we have,nothing is free in this world and if you are not earning your way the bible says you should starve,and if you are not providing for your family then you are worse than an infidel...people need food,clothing and shelter or they die..i suspect you have all three and shame on you if you are allowing others to provide it for you if you are able to do it yourself....you will receive no reward for that.