tom55 said:
I am always willing to learn. What information can you provide me on Free Masonry showing that they started before the mid 1800's? (website link would be great)
Since it is well known (or should be well known) that we are discussing the Christian Trinity belief I assumed you would know what I meant. So your logical fallacy allegation is ridiculous and there is no reason to qualify my statement.
Scripture does not clearly say that God is one God. You know what it says, you just don't want to accept it and there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. I look forward to you Free Masonry information.
There is absolutely nothing that I've said or written (of a theological nature) here that is not supported by scripture except the nature of time itself which was not understood by the authors of scripture.
I use website links for quick reference, but since the internet supplies far more misinformation than truth, you're better off going to source materials and there are more than a few written by Free-Masons about their history (in which they take great pride).
George Washington was a Free-Mason and was sworn into office on a Masonic bible by the grand master of Free-Masonry of New York at a ceremony outside the trinity church, just about a block from the present site of the World trade center. I'm pretty sure that this occurred before the 1800s. One of his most famous portraits shows him wearing the kid gloves of freemasonry along with the Mason's apron. He personally laid the cornerstone for the new capital in the District of Columbia and that day is celebrated by American Free-Masons on a regular basis (I'm unsure if its annual.)
I don't know if the books are available in print, but someone (probably a free-mason) took the time to convert many masonic books to electronic versions and many of these are available for free on-line. I own a kindle which I use primarily for reading, and Amazon provides many of these e-books for free to their kindle owners. One of the most informative on Free-Mason philosophy (from the few that I actually read) is titled "The symbolism of Freemasonry illustrating and Explaining Its Science and Philosophy, Its Legends, Myths and Symbols" (quite a title) by Albert G. Mackey, M.D. published in 1882. Another very informative book, with a great deal of historical information is titled "The Builders: A Story and Study of Masonry" written by Joseph Fort Newton and printed the first time in 1914. While its true that most books you might find in the public domain about Free-Masonry appear to have been written in the 1800s, the historical evidence provides for a history going back to at least the 1300s and to guild masonry. Guild masonry goes back at least as far as the Roman empire, and includes doctrines derived from Egyptian myth.
You need to consider that this is a secret society which actually makes initiates take a blood oath about divulgence of their mysteries, which makes Free-Masonry a difficult subject to write about for Masons. Also, the printing press is a relatively new invention in human history, so older books would be both rare and beyond the means of a working man. One well known protestant preacher, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, published his sermons in a magazine format called "The Sword and the Trowel." The sword part is understandable, being one description of the scripture from God, but the Trowel part is most definitely not found in the bible; it comes from Masonry and most likely from Free-Masonry, as the philanthropic bent of the face of Free-Masonry attracted many Christians to it. At one point in relatively recent history there was a dispute among the Free-Masons as to whether Christians should be allowed in the order, because Free-Masonry only recognizes Christ as a symbol of resurrection and not as God. I don't know if this was an attempt by Christians to Christianize free-masonry, but Christians had been welcomed into the order for centuries because the bible is full of symbolism and specifically symbolism which aligns with Masonic doctrine, even though the text refutes it.
I prefer to use texts written by Masons in good standing with Free-Masonry since these wouldn't be expected to hold a bias against it, and I'm more interested in truth than myth. The darkness of Free-Masonry is made evident by scripture itself, so there is no reason to cloud understanding with modern authors pushing agendas of one sort or another. You should also consider that while modern Free-Masonry was once condemned by the RCC, it wasn't that unusual for members of that church to become guild masons in Europe if they were involved in the design and building of Churches and Cathedrals. Free-Masonry, one of Satan's more clever inventions, has infiltrated organized religion all over the world and in every case has moved initiates gradually away from their beliefs and "up the stairs" to their concept of god, who is by no means the same as the God of scripture. If you examine the personal history of many modern cult leaders, you'll find that their public history started in a Masonic lodge. I honestly believe that if you look closely at the ecumenical movement, you'll find Free-Masonry behind it, because Free-Masonry is about accepting everyone with certain basic beliefs as part of their brotherhood, a belief in a god, and a belief in a resurrection and utopian type of future.
With regard to that final statement about scripture, lets go back to basics and look at the first commandment of what we refer to as the ten commandments.
6. `I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 7. `You shall have no other gods before Me. Deuteronomy 5:6-7
Now, I'm no expert in any foreign language including Hebrew or Greek, but I'm pretty sure that both Greek and Hebrew have means of distinguishing what we call the personal pronoun in English, e.g. I, he, we, she, etc. You'll notice that in the commandment I and Me are understood and terms like "we are" and "us" are not used. There are many words used for God in the scripture, including the plural form "Elohim", which is used apologetically for Trinitarian doctrine. I actually have a Trinitarian doctrine and it would seem that David does as well, in that we see God when we consider the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but it isn't quite as simple or easy to misunderstand as that presented by the church for a very long time (in my case, but I can't speak for our friend.)
Also what the Jews refer to as the great sh'mah (?) is directly out of scripture:
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! Deuteronomy 6:4
In this verse the word "one" is a translation of a Hebrew word commonly spelled "echad" which can represent the number 1 or the concept "unity" which mathematically is the same thing. People that have a good grasp on Trinitarian doctrine will go with the "unity" translation which doesn't imply a plurality (or a word representing plurality would have been used by God) but doesn't imply a singularity either. The foundation of the Jewish religion and of the Christian religion is that there is one God, only one. If you don't understand that, go to a theologian that you trust and ask.