CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, I'm hesitant also. I have a problem with complete stillness. I always bring a book with me in case I have to wait for something.
The New Birth: Born Again
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Yes, I'm hesitant also. I have a problem with complete stillness. I always bring a book with me in case I have to wait for something.
I've been working on making my mind still before God. Just to stop the world for a moment, and center my attention fully on God, for the purpose of mentally and emotionally touching bases with Him, as it were.
It never seems to last long, though, because its like, when I get my mind quiet and on Him, suddenly I'm filled with some resolve to get something done, or some new thought to bounce around my amazed mind, like that.
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
What I do I keep part of my mind always focused on Him. He will interrupt my own thoughts with a word, or what I need to pray for.
Talk to you and @Nancy later
I thought Jesus requires the whole heart and the whole mind devoted totally to the Father ?
He does not 'share' the glory nor His Lordship with anyone ... A person either gives up everything to follow Him, to be His Disciple,
or
holds back some, and suffers great loss because of it... (like Ananias and Saphira)....
"These are part of the second filling of the Holy Spirit. They are given for the profit of all and manifest inside the church or part of one's office. Like calling on the elders of the church to anoint someone with oil for their healing.<---- And this would be taken from Acts 8 (the "second filling")?
I believe that the Holy Spirit enters a person at the point of salvation. I just cannot see a second experience.
"To receive gifts, the number one thing everyone must do is truly repent for the purpose of wanting to follow Jesus. I know you've done that." Yes I have and, fully :)
"Mark 16:16-18 are gifts for every individual Christian's use while alone or not as part of an office."
Well, we do have the Snake Handlers
, and I see no reason for this unless in a far away 3rd world country where snakes might bite a missionary of God...and it not effecting them because they are furthering His Gospel. Can't see anybody poisoning a Pastor, or Preacher...well, at least not here in the Western world.
Still on the fence with tongues, have to read a book from the beginning again
BUT...I can certainly see how it would make all kinds of sense for tongues to be used, again, in a small pocket of the world there the language is not known.
Or, if it is as in the Word where the offices here are ordered within the body. As far as there being like, 3 different "kinds" of tongues...jury's still out ;)
"To receive higher gifts one must continue to grow, and there are no better verses than 2 Peter 1:5-7 (and 8)"
The "higher gifts" meaning the sign gifts? If one must continue to grow before receiving these kinds of gifts then, why do so many say they started speaking in tongues immediately, or shortly after-like yourself,?
5 "But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ". <---Amen. These are the very things I strive for!
Mark 16:20
"And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen."
I must say what is in my heart and mind so please, try to meet me in the middle here, lol.
When I see the words "they and "them" in the same context of speaking directly TO the 12...it just leads me to believe the previous verses were directed at the Apostles. The ones about handling snakes (Paul shook the snake off his hand...) and the drinking of poison (obviously, unknowingly given to them by an enemy of the Cross) they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.<--- ...(Still have yet to see this done. My sister, My mom, my dad and several of my Aunts and Uncles have had hands laid on them by Church Elders and pastors, and been anointed with oil and not a one was healed. I know the Pastor and Elders who did this and they are spirit filled Christians who love the Lord. I honestly do not know what to think anymore other than the fact that any and all healing comes from God.)
As for myself, I do not at all feel as though I "must" have one of the sign gifts, and am okay with that as, He knows I am totally open to Him in every area. And, do not ever think to limit Him as, He will do as He wills.
19 "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."
There's the "them" again, right after He said what would follow them...if they believed.
Sorry this is all over the map, and I'm pretty sure I missed things but...I got a book to read!!! Then, study! Then to share with the author what I learned :)
Later,
When a person is born again,
do you believe the Father in Heaven 'births' a new spirit or "creates a right spirit within me" by His Will ?
You and me both Marks! My mind never seems to stop and I can have several things going at the same time in there! The best place for me is by the lake or a quiet park. Satan sure can also distract us...
Check out if it is findable the testimony of Nora Lam ('China Cry' I think)...
In California after she moved to the usa, she had while in prayer clear instructions from God to go to China to specific cities to share the Gospel of Jesus. She resisted - she felt she could not go back to China where she had been imprisoned and so forth.. (and released by a series of miracles, including six soldiers in a firing squad being blinded by "LIGHT!" at the moment of shooting, and they all missed her ! ) ....
In a prayer meeting , or during prayer at a meeting, someone prophesied out loud so that everyone could hear ... and named the SAME CITIES that God had made clear to Nora Lam previously....
The prophesy was hear by Nora Lam
in PERFECT MANDARIN CHINESE LANGUAGE, through someone who knew it not.
Another time, in Mexico, an evangelist preaching to a crowd
was heard by each man in the crowd/audience
in their own language . (which the evangelist did not know, even he was unaware while he was speaking , I think) ... .... (may be it was one language they each heard - spanish, but I don't remember ) ....
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
No, not Jerusalem and Samaria, but us individually.
Acts 2: (individual power)
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 4: (corporate ministry)
29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, 30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”
31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.
"Mark 16:16-18 are gifts for every individual Christian's use while alone or not as part of an office."
Well, we do have the Snake Handlers
There are those who don't know Hebrew idioms that take this literally, but actually that is the sin of presumption. The meaning of this idiom is divine protection.
I only know of two. Both are unknown languages.
Mark 16 - prayer and praise privately (even in a group like a choir) TO God.
1 Cor. 12 - receiving messages FROM God in the congregation that requires the interpreter be present.
I start at verse 16 and see that those verses in Mark are for all who believe, not just apostles. Look at those at Corinth. They were reprimanded for coming together and everyone doing his own thing without any order, but it does show that ALL are expected to have a prayer language and to hear God's voice. 1 Corinthians 14:23-24.
23 Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all.
Prophesying is also supernaturally understanding the Word of God as Peter did on the Day of Pentecost when out of the blue he said this was Joel 2 being fulfilled. To the unsaved, the Word of God is foolishness, and many just don't read because they don't understand it.
"Mark 16 - prayer and praise privately (even in a group like a choir) TO God.
1 Cor. 12 - receiving messages FROM God in the congregation that requires the interpreter be present." <---Yes, I do understand this but not when every person in the congregation is doing their tongues in unison! How in the world could an interpreter even hear a message? And wouldn't an unbeliever who might walk in think they are whackadoo? So to speak :)
"There are those who don't know Hebrew idioms that take this literally, but actually that is the sin of presumption. The meaning of this idiom is divine protection."
Yes, it is divine protection! And I believe it does exist today.
"But when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks and laid them on the fire, a viper came out because of the heat and fastened itself on his hand. When the natives saw the creature hanging from his hand, they began saying to one another, "Undoubtedly this man is a murderer, and though he has been saved from the sea, justice has not allowed him to live. But Paul shook the snake off into the fire and suffered no ill effects."
I can see this kind of thing happening today.
Nancy said: ↑
.<---- And this would be taken from Acts 8 (the "second filling")?
I believe that the Holy Spirit enters a person at the point of salvation. I just cannot see a second experience.
"No, not Jerusalem and Samaria, but us individually" <----- Lost me there..
"Prophesying is also supernaturally understanding the Word of God as Peter did on the Day of Pentecost when out of the blue he said this was Joel 2 being fulfilled. To the unsaved, the Word of God is foolishness, and many just don't read because they don't understand it."
Yes, Peter sure did turn from being a coward to becoming very bold in Christ, his eyes were opened! And his prophesying, and preaching could not be held in.
The Joel 2 verses about pouring His Spirit out on all , "I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams..." Pentecost, that sure happened but, what of these verses
Joel 2:2
2 a day of darkness and gloom,
a day of clouds and blackness.
Like the dawn overspreading the mountains
a great and strong army appears,
such as never was of old,
nor will ever be in ages to come.
Sometimes it seems this too was foretold to happen at the same time as the other verses The Spirit being poured out.
So, does that mean that "a great and strong army appears,such as never was of old, nor will ever be in ages to come" has already happened too? It is confusing and complicated to decipher the times and the ages so...that is another topic! :O
"To the unsaved, the Word of God is foolishness, and many just don't read because they don't understand it."
Yes, very true and I could be in that category at times. You know...shelving! :)
Sorry so long in replying...niece and her friend came in.
In Him,
Nancy
Your theory is that without the manifestation of tongues, there is no New Birth and no gift of the Holy Spirit. But Acts chapter 2 DISPROVES what you have said. Not one of those three thousands souls was said to have spoken in tongues, yet all of them received the gift of the Holy Ghost. THAT WAS A GUARANTEE to those who repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.
THIS VERSE SPEAKS OF WATER BAPTISM: Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (v 41)
So you are in fact promoting a false doctrine which says that (1) water baptism is for the remission of sins and (2) the gift of the Holy Ghost must be seen as manifested in tongues.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
What the Corinthians were doing was doing their own thing for the whole meeting. So during the message, no one stopped doing their own thing, whether tongues, a prophecy, a song, etc. Complete confusion. They needed to take turns.
On the Day of Pentecost all the believers were speaking in tongues together like a choir. They were all speaking in different languages at the same time, but the Parthians heard only their language, those from Egypt heard only their language, the Cretans heard only their language, etc. IOW they were given supernatural interpretation. When they got to interacting with those around them they found that they weren't the only ones who "heard in their own language." They said, 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?
The Gentiles at that time heard only gibberish and said they were drunk.
At the Church on the Way, we only lifted up praise as a congregation/choir on Wednesday night when most everyone was a believer, but Pastor Jack would always explain, though nowadays everyone has heard of speaking in tongues. And it would only be for about 5 minutes. There was no interpretation as it was all praise TO God. If there was a message FROM God, that one person would have waited until a quiet spot in the program and stand up and speak. Then the interpretation would be spoken. You see there is a difference in praise (no interpretation) and messages (interpretation).
Joel 2 is about not only the Day of Pentecost, the early rain, but also the time close to the second coming (NOW!!!) when the latter rain is poured out. All the Pentecostal denominations and non-denominations started just over a hundred years ago, but not during the middle ages, except devout individuals.
We are about to enter some perilous times.
Yes, that was a miracle, but I don't believe it was in answer to the Hebrew idiom. They all received divine protection, getting out of jail miraculously, etc. I've received divine protection myself. What I'm saying it is NOT JUST about snakes and poison as some snake-handling churches believe.
Talk to you soon.
Davy
Well-Known Member
My interpretation is according to written Word of God in Acts 2 which gives the evidence of what was spoken on Pentecost, and how it manifested to the peoples present; your interpretation is according to another spirit.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Davy
Well-Known Member
Go back and look at my posts, which is where you will find it. You might start with post #21 here in this thread.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Davy
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to play silly games with you. If you really wanted to know what God's Word shows about the cloven tongue you would have admitted that evidence in Acts 2 by now. But your words show you are not interested in the evidence in God's Word, but instead would rather follow what men's doctrines have wrongly taught you about the matter.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I know what God's word says, and I haven't been taught by man what I believe, as, again, you wrongly assume. (You certainly make a habit out of making a silly goose out of yourself with all these assumptions.) I can't remember, if I ever knew, how you interpret Acts 2 except some error about "cloven" tongues. I would like to know, but if you do not have the fruit of the Holy Spirit and can't act lovingly and state your beliefs, then we have nothing to discuss. I wouldn't be interested in the carnal beliefs of those without the Holy Spirit.
I already asked you why you believe "cloven" tongue is speaking in tongues, which that verse in Acts 2 isn't referring to, because it is the baptism of fire of the Holy Spirit. You never answered me, possibly because you can't admit you made a mistake and grow from it.
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