The New Birth: Born Again

[BGR]

Some people think that they are "born again" the moment they just think in their mind or say under their breathe that they accept the Lord as their personal saviour. POOF! Just like that they have been born again. However if that were the case, then this would have been a strange question to ask...

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?


What is the New Birth according to the Word of God?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

According to Jesus' own words in St. John 3:8 there would be a sound associated with every one who is born of the Spirit. And as we will see, the Bible SPECIFICALLY says they spoke in tongues. But before we establish this, I wish to point out that the establishment of 2 or 3 witnesses, is established in the Word of God 2 or 3 times...

Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

1 Timothy 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.


Now let the word establish 2 or 3 times receiving the Holy Ghost with the sound associated with every one who is born of the Spirit...

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


At the Birth of the New Testament Church in Acts 2, all the apostles were present when this question was asked them...

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Peter said to:
1. Repent
2. Water Baptism for remission of sins
3. Receive Holy Ghost


The Holy Ghost may be Before "OR" After baptism, but the Birth must still be complete...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

HOLY GHOST AFTER BAPTISM
Acts 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Acts 8:16 "(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus)."
Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

HOLY GHOST BEFORE BAPTISM
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


Jesus' Water Baptism symbolized Born Again speaking in tongues:

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: [17] And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

1. WATER: Jesus was water baptized by John's remission of sin baptism (although He was sinless).
2. SPIRIT: Descending like a dove.
3. Tongues/Sound Thereof: And lo a voice from heaven.

John 3:5 Jesus explained that the regenerational new birth experience involved water and Spirit. The verse 3:8 movements of the Spirit and wind are hard to predict, yet their "sound" or voice (phōnē) manifests their presence.

 

[Giuliano]

What is the New Birth according to the Word of God?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

According to Jesus' own words in St. John 3:8 there would be a sound associated with every one who is born of the Spirit.

It's saying much more than that. The person who is born of the Spirit can move like the wind. You may hear something when the wind is blowing, you may see the wind affecting things around you; but you cannot see the wind and you don't know where it came from or where it's going.

In short, the person born of the Spirit is not stuck in his physical body but can move around outside of it. Flesh and spirit have been divided. Spirit is no longer trapped and confused by the physical body.

Ezekiel was called "son of man" and he moved around outside of his body. Paul and John were both caught up in the spirit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Some people think that they are "born again" the moment they just think in their mind or say under their breathe that they accept the Lord as their personal saviour. POOF! Just like that they have been born again. However if that were the case, then this would have been a strange question to ask...

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?


What is the New Birth according to the Word of God?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

According to Jesus' own words in St. John 3:8 there would be a sound associated with every one who is born of the Spirit. And as we will see, the Bible SPECIFICALLY says they spoke in tongues. But before we establish this, I wish to point out that the establishment of 2 or 3 witnesses, is established in the Word of God 2 or 3 times...

Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

1 Timothy 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.


Now let the word establish 2 or 3 times receiving the Holy Ghost with the sound associated with every one who is born of the Spirit...

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


At the Birth of the New Testament Church in Acts 2, all the apostles were present when this question was asked them...

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Peter said to:
1. Repent
2. Water Baptism for remission of sins
3. Receive Holy Ghost


The Holy Ghost may be Before "OR" After baptism, but the Birth must still be complete...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

HOLY GHOST AFTER BAPTISM
Acts 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Acts 8:16 "(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus)."
Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

HOLY GHOST BEFORE BAPTISM
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


Jesus' Water Baptism symbolized Born Again speaking in tongues:

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: [17] And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

1. WATER: Jesus was water baptized by John's remission of sin baptism (although He was sinless).
2. SPIRIT: Descending like a dove.
3. Tongues/Sound Thereof: And lo a voice from heaven.

John 3:5 Jesus explained that the regenerational new birth experience involved water and Spirit. The verse 3:8 movements of the Spirit and wind are hard to predict, yet their "sound" or voice (phōnē) manifests their presence.

I agree with you. Except the Holy Spirit's first manifestation is a new nature that does not desire to sin. The gifts, including speaking in tongues are secondary. Yes, we have been given the authority to speak in tongues, but having the Holy Spirit indwelling us means we are no longer in are carnal flesh, but the Spirit. We who can speak in tongues do so at our own will. We can speak or not speak. Because of this, not all given this authority even know they can. There is so much false doctrine on the subject of tongues today, unlike in the 1st century, that there are some that absolutely have no faith in tongues as they've been taught it is of the devil. This ability, as well as casting out demons and commanding the healing of the sick are all ours by faith and knowledge they are from God, and a knowledge of who we are in Christ MUST produce the faith required for the devil to flee.

My own ministry emphasis is regarding sin, not gifts. God has allowed me to participate in all of His gifts of Joel 2, Mark 16 and 1 Corinthians 12, save two, and one office of Ephesians 4. But they are nothing if we don't have righteousness and holiness from obeying the leading of the Holy Spirit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It's saying much more than that. The person who is born of the Spirit can move like the wind. You may hear something when the wind is blowing, you may see the wind affecting things around you; but you cannot see the wind and you don't know where it came from or where it's going.

In short, the person born of the Spirit is not stuck in his physical body but can move around outside of it. Flesh and spirit have been divided. Spirit is no longer trapped and confused by the physical body.

Ezekiel was called "son of man" and he moved around outside of his body. Paul and John were both caught up in the spirit.

That would be nice, but not everyone can go to heaven at will, or around the world.

 

[Joseph77]

That would be nice, but not everyone can go to heaven at will, or around the world.

Why, on what basis, would "that" be nice ?

There is already so much confusion and deception about all such things, and all else too.....

 

[Giuliano]

That would be nice, but not everyone can go to heaven at will, or around the world.

Then they are not yet born from above. They are not seated yet in heavenly places (as in Ephesians 1:3). They may be born of the water without yet being born of the Spirit. Remember that Jesus said the way was narrow and the gate was strait. Few will find it.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Then they are not yet born from above. They are not seated yet in heavenly places (as in Ephesians 1:3). They may be born of the water without yet being born of the Spirit. Remember that Jesus said the way was narrow and the gate was strait. Few will find it.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

How many times have you "traveled"? And where to? And for what purpose?

 

[Giuliano]

How many times have you "traveled"? And where to? And for what purpose?

I have several times. Not recently, but I had things to do. Some of the things I saw in the spirit helped me know what to pray for. Some I wouldn't want to discuss fully in public, but a few might be okay.

I was taken one night in the spirit to London where I saw people experimenting with fetuses. It was close to the Thames. When I came back to my body, I figured I had been shown that so I could pray about it. It took years before I found out more. I read in the news about a company that had been doing just that. They got in trouble for it and got exposed. Then I wondered if I had seen the river right, so I googled that company and found out that they owned a building a few blocks from the Thames.

Another time I went to Paris. I'd rather not discuss the reason for that; but there were other people there "in the spirit" so to speak and not all were godly. One said the sun was getting to rise so things had to end. I came back to my body, woke up and wrote the time down after looking at my clock. Then I went back to sleep since it was still night here. The next day I googled what time sunrise was in Paris. It was when I was told. There is indeed spiritual wickedness in high places. That was not in Heaven -- evil spirits cannot get in there.

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I have several times. Not recently, but I had things to do. Some of the things I saw in the spirit helped me know what to pray for. Some I wouldn't want to discuss fully in public, but a few might be okay.

I was taken one night in the spirit to London where I saw people experimenting with fetuses. It was close to the Thames. When I came back to my body, I figured I had been shown that so I could pray about it. It took years before I found out more. I read in the news about a company that had been doing just that. They got in trouble for it and got exposed. Then I wondered if I had seen the river right, so I googled that company and found out that they owned a building a few blocks from the Thames.

Another time I went to Paris. I'd rather not discuss the reason for that; but there were other people there "in the spirit" so to speak and not all were godly. One said the sun was getting to rise so things had to end. I came back to my body, woke up and wrote the time down after looking at my clock. Then I went back to sleep since it was still night here. The next day I googled what time sunrise was in Paris. It was when I was told. There is indeed spiritual wickedness in high places. That was not in Heaven -- evil spirits cannot get in there.

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

That is very interesting and I believe you, but just as Paul was the only apostle that is said to have traveled in the Spirit, I wouldn't accuse those who have the Holy Spirit and are gifted to not having the Spirit if they don't travel. That is like those who accuse cessationists of not being Christian if they refuse to believe in tongues. Or cessationists who accuse Pentecostals of being of the devil. Only God knows who His true children are. But I do envy you your experience in the Spirit. The closest I've come would be visions that came to pass just as I saw them take place.

I'm not sure what you have to do to be in a state where godly spirit traveling is possible, and not be astro-projection and of the devil. I know of one man that often liked to "spirit travel" for the fun of it, and one night as he was "getting focused" a huge angel in full armor appeared in front of him and reprimanded him, that he was verging on witchcraft. How do you prevent that?

 

[Giuliano]

I'm not sure what you have to do to be in a state where godly spirit traveling is possible, and not be astro-projection and of the devil. I know of one man that often liked to "spirit travel" for the fun of it, and one night as he was "getting focused" a huge angel in full armor appeared in front of him and reprimanded him, that he was verging on witchcraft. How do you prevent that?

What people call astral projection is the soul traveling on what some call the astral plane. I'd call it the "sea" myself since it currently holds a lot of foul things. My visit to Paris was in an ungodly section of the astral plane. No harm can come to you if you remain in the Light of God. Danger comes when people forget who they are and start to fear things or let their hearts be troubled. I once had demonic creatures reach out in a threatening way. I remained in the Light. They didn't dare touch me; but when I reached out to them, they ran away. They detest the Light of God in its pure state. If I had run away from them, I would have been fearing them more than I feared God -- and then they could have harmed me. It isn't something anyone should do just for fun. It's a good thing that angel appeared to the man and warned him.

 

[CharismaticLady]

What people call astral projection is the soul traveling on what some call the astral plane. I'd call it the "sea" myself since it currently holds a lot of foul things. My visit to Paris was in an ungodly section of the astral plane. No harm can come to you if you remain in the Light of God. Danger comes when people forget who they are and start to fear things or let their hearts be troubled. I once had demonic creatures reach out in a threatening way. I remained in the Light. They didn't dare touch me; but when I reached out to them, they ran away. They detest the Light of God in its pure state. If I had run away from them, I would have been fearing them more than I feared God -- and then they could have harmed me. It isn't something anyone should do just for fun. It's a good thing that angel appeared to the man and warned him.

He never mentioned that there were any demons present. As I recall, he liked the feeling of flying. That's why the angel came. But even though I started to read one of his books, I decided I might be tempted to abuse the privilege too. I know I am saved, and if Jesus comes in 2029 when it appears Revelation 8 will be fulfilled with the asteroid that NASA is watching, I'll be in heaven soon enough.

 

[BGR]

I agree with you. Except the Holy Spirit's first manifestation is a new nature that does not desire to sin. The gifts, including speaking in tongues are secondary.

There are actually THREE different operations of Speaking in Tongues in a fully functional Church.

PURPOSE # 1 The initial evidence of having received the Holy Ghost "the Bible way", which can be interpreted for the edification of others.

John Chapter Three (KJV)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

According to Jesus in Verse 8 (above) just as there is a "sound" associated (or present) with the wind, likewise, there is a "sound" associated (present) when EVERYONE is born of the Spirit.

My question is, What is the SOUND to which Jesus referred?

The preponderance of Scriptural evidence that is found written verbatim upon the pages of the Holy Bible of people in the New Testament Church proves to be "Speaking in Tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance."

By the way, in the settings where it does NOT say one way or the other whether or not they spoke in Tongues should NOT be used to insist they did NOT. Instead, it just doesn't say. I've never had anyone to present Scripture that says someone received the Holy Ghost but did NOT speak in Tongues. However, since Tongues has become a hot topic for many, both pro and con, many are falling into the trap of adding to or taking from God's Word, depending on how you look at it.


PURPOSE # 2 Used in one's intercessory Prayer, as well as in their personal and private worship, which edifies the individual, but is NOT understood by anyone or interpreted for the edification of anyone else.

1 Corinthians Chapter 14 (KJV)
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.


PURPOSE # 3 Can be interpreted for the edification of an entire congregation.

1 Corinthians Chapter 14 (KJV)
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

 

[Davy]

Some people think that they are "born again" the moment they just think in their mind or say under their breathe that they accept the Lord as their personal saviour. POOF! Just like that they have been born again. However if that were the case, then this would have been a strange question to ask...

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?


What is the New Birth according to the Word of God?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

According to Jesus' own words in St. John 3:8 there would be a sound associated with every one who is born of the Spirit. And as we will see, the Bible SPECIFICALLY says they spoke in tongues. But before we establish this, I wish to point out that the establishment of 2 or 3 witnesses, is established in the Word of God 2 or 3 times...
....

That is a false Pentecostal teaching from men's doctrines.

Christ's description of being 'born again' in John 3 about The Spirit involving sound was an expression. It does not mean every time The Holy Spirit enters a believer that there is an audible sound with the example being a speaking of an 'unknown tongue'.

The idea you are pushing is the Pentecostal denomination falseness that tries to claim one is not 'born again' if they don't speak an unknown tongue!

Apostle Paul taught that the speaking in 'tongues' (languages) is the least of gifts from The Holy Spirit, and that not all speak it (1 Corinthians 12:28-31).

FURTHERMORE... God's Word in Acts 2 reveals what was spoken on Pentecost was NOT some gibberish unknown tongue! What was spoken was 'understood' by ALL present in the very dialect of their language of birth! That is what is written especially in the Greek.

And in 1 Corinthians 14 the word "unknown" is NOT in the Greek manuscripts! The KJV translators ADDED IT. So there is no such thing as an 'unknown' tongue!

 

[CharismaticLady]

There are actually THREE different operations of Speaking in Tongues in a fully functional Church.

PURPOSE # 1 The initial evidence of having received the Holy Ghost "the Bible way", which can be interpreted for the edification of others.

John Chapter Three (KJV)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

According to Jesus in Verse 8 (above) just as there is a "sound" associated (or present) with the wind, likewise, there is a "sound" associated (present) when EVERYONE is born of the Spirit.

My question is, What is the SOUND to which Jesus referred?

The preponderance of Scriptural evidence that is found written verbatim upon the pages of the Holy Bible of people in the New Testament Church proves to be "Speaking in Tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance."

By the way, in the settings where it does NOT say one way or the other whether or not they spoke in Tongues should NOT be used to insist they did NOT. Instead, it just doesn't say. I've never had anyone to present Scripture that says someone received the Holy Ghost but did NOT speak in Tongues. However, since Tongues has become a hot topic for many, both pro and con, many are falling into the trap of adding to or taking from God's Word, depending on how you look at it.


PURPOSE # 2 Used in one's intercessory Prayer, as well as in their personal and private worship, which edifies the individual, but is NOT understood by anyone or interpreted for the edification of anyone else.

1 Corinthians Chapter 14 (KJV)
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.


PURPOSE # 3 Can be interpreted for the edification of an entire congregation.

1 Corinthians Chapter 14 (KJV)
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

When I first got baptized with the Spirit, the first thing I had was a vision and the interpretation, then I heard God's voice all within minutes. The Spirit overwhelmed me from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet and all the desire to sin was gone. The burden of the old nature was released and I felt light as a feather. But I didn't speak in tongues until three days later when I, myself, opened my mouth and spake.

That doesn't mean I didn't have the ability from the first moment according to Mark 16:16-18, but we are in control of opening our mouth and operating in it. Therefore, to say as you do, that they MUST operate the gift to prove they have the Spirit is actually very wrong. That can and does get faked. A completely changed life is the evidence that God is inside you and unmistakable.

 

[BGR]

Christ's description of being 'born again' in John 3 about The Spirit involving sound was an expression. It does not mean every time The Holy Spirit enters a believer that there is an audible sound with the example being a speaking of an 'unknown tongue'.

Here are scriptures of the "sound" accompanied with receiving the Holy Ghost:

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. [46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Apostle Paul taught that the speaking in 'tongues' (languages) is the least of gifts from The Holy Spirit, and that not all speak it (1 Corinthians 12:28-31).

There are actually THREE different operations of Speaking in Tongues.

PURPOSE # 1 The initial evidence of having received the Holy Ghost "the Bible way", which can be interpreted for the edification of others.

John Chapter Three (KJV)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

According to Jesus in Verse 8 (above) just as there is a "sound" associated (or present) with the wind, likewise, there is a "sound" associated (present) when EVERYONE is born of the Spirit.

My question is, What is the SOUND to which Jesus referred?

The preponderance of Scriptural evidence proves to be "Speaking in Tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance."

By the way, in the settings where it does NOT say one way or the other whether or not they spoke in Tongues should NOT be used to insist they did NOT. Instead, it just doesn't say. I've never had anyone to present Scripture that says someone received the Holy Ghost but did NOT speak in Tongues. However, since Tongues has become a hot topic for many, both pro and con, many are falling into the trap of adding to or taking from God's Word, depending on how you look at it.


PURPOSE # 2 Used in one's intercessory Prayer, as well as in their personal and private worship, which edifies the individual, but is NOT understood by anyone or interpreted for the edification of anyone else.

1 Corinthians Chapter 14 (KJV)
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.


PURPOSE # 3 Can be interpreted for the edification of an entire congregation.

1 Corinthians Chapter 14 (KJV)
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


In short, the "sound" heard in John 3:8 is the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. The "gifts" of tongues in 1Corinthians does not fall into this category.

 

[BGR]

That doesn't mean I didn't have the ability from the first moment according to Mark 16:16-18, but we are in control of opening our mouth and operating in it. Therefore, to say as you do, that they MUST operate the gift to prove they have the Spirit is actually very wrong. That can and does get faked. A completely changed life is the evidence that God is inside you and unmistakable.

I did not say that "they MUST operate the gift to prove they have the Spirit" ... sorry.

As far as faked tongues ... I heard some horror stories, I think we all have. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I did not say that "they MUST operate the gift to prove they have the Spirit" ... sorry.

As far as faked tongues ... I heard some horror stories, I think we all have. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I just want to emphasize what the Holy Spirit's main purpose is and that is to make us reborn to partake of the divine nature. Jesus didn't sin because of His nature, and He is the firstborn of many brethren filled with the Spirit of Christ who don't sin. Romans 8:29-30. Not the firstborn of many brethren who speak in tongues.

Don't get me wrong, I am a believer who believes that all true believers filled with the Spirit CAN speak in tongues, cast out devils, heal the sick, raise the dead, and can have faith to enjoy divine protection until Jesus returns but don't know it; just not a fan of those who believe speaking in tongues is the evidence of being filled with the Spirit, when Jesus was manifested to take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. 1 John 3:5; John 8:34-36; 1 John 5:18.

 

[BGR]

I just want to emphasize what the Holy Spirit's main purpose is and that is to make us reborn to partake of the divine nature. Jesus didn't sin because of His nature, and He is the firstborn of many brethren filled with the Spirit of Christ who don't sin. Romans 8:29-30. Not the firstborn of many brethren who speak in tongues.

The purpose of the OP is to explain what the New Birth is, according to scripture. It is not simply a mental acceptance of Jesus, but is very specifically born of water and spirit. Speaking in tongues is something Jesus himself felt to be important enough to explain to Nicodemus. Jesus thought it important enough to say there is a sound accompanying the new birth. The OP has explained that.

 

[Davy]

Here are scriptures of the "sound" accompanied with receiving the Holy Ghost:

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. [46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
....

There is no such thing as an UNKNOWN tongue written of in God's Word. What was spoken on Pentecost manifested in KNOWN languages of the world. The TRUE cloven tongue goes out AS LANGUAGES. And that is the meaning in Acts 2.

It does NOT manifest as gibberish which no one can understand.


The whole Pentecostal interpretation of a unknown tongue as a play on 1 Cor.12 thru 14 is a fallacy. The word "unknown" in 1 Cor.14 WAS ADDED BY THE KJV TRANSLATORS.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The purpose of the OP is to explain what the New Birth is, according to scripture. It is not simply a mental acceptance of Jesus, but is very specifically born of water and spirit. Speaking in tongues is something Jesus himself felt to be important enough to explain to Nicodemus. Jesus thought it important enough to say there is a sound accompanying the new birth. The OP has explained that.

That's a leap. The wind is the Spirit. The Spirit is invisible, and so is the experience of being born again. You can't see the old nature being killed, and replaced. But there IS a dramatic difference in the person, themselves, when the slavery to sin is gone. The "sound" could just as well be the sound of angels singing. LOL