THE NEW COVENANT FOR ISRAEL

[Eternally Grateful]

What’s got questions? Just tell me who or ask them then tell me who and where.

the Bible never says anyone is a child of Mary accept Jesus by the HS

Mary says I do not know a man, (sex) she knew and was betrothed to Joseph, this verse makes no sense unless she is a perpetual Virgin and made a vow to God Lk 1:34

She said I DO NOT KNOW A MAN

it does not say she will never know a man

not sure who you are listening to but your reasoning makes No sense.
It makes perfect sense

how can I who have never known a man have a child.

 

[Tong2020]

And here is an explanation.

Note that both of these quotes refer to the HOUSE of Israel and the HOUSE of Judah.
What, or who, is the house of Israel and the house of Judah?

I think the answer is the king.
In 2Sam 12:8 the Lord (via Nathan) says to David "I..... gave you the house of Israel and of Judah..."
The king represents in himself the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Another example of the king personifying the whole house is given in Isaiah 7:13 where Isaiah calls king Ahaz the house of David.

Now who became the King?
Who was promised the throne of David?
Answer: Jesus: "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High;
and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever;
and of his kingdom there will be no end.” (Lk 1:32-33).

Jesus is the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah; he embodies the Covenant in himself.
In Isaiah, God speaks about the coming Messiah in several "Servant" passages

Is 42:6-7 I have given you as a covenant to the people, a light to the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness. This is very similar to what Jesus says about himself in Lk 4:18

Is 49:8 I have kept you and given you as a covenant to the people,
The implications are that Jesus is a living embodiment of the Covenant

The Messiah is given as a Covenant to the people, an embodiment of the covenant. And note he is to be a "light to the nations". He is not just for the Jews.

3. The Mosaic/Sinai Covenant could be, and was, broken. But if Jesus is the embodiment of the Covenant it can never be broken. That is why it is an everlasting covenant .

God says to Ezekial (and note this is long after David is dead)
“My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow my ordinances and be careful to observe my statutes. They shall dwell in the land where your fathers dwelt that I gave to my servant Jacob; they and their children and their children’s children shall dwell there for ever; and David my servant shall be their prince for ever. I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them (Ez 37:24-26).

Anyone can come into this Covenant. Since the Covenant is Christ, if we are "in Christ", a phrase Paul used often, we are in the Covenant.

<<<What, or who, is the house of Israel and the house of Judah? I think the answer is the king.>>>
I see, that is your explanation. How does your explanation go along with the prophecy itself?

Obviously, we are not talking about some other covenant, but of a new covenant specific between God and the "house of Israel and the house of Judah". This covenant is said to be a new covenant, in that, it replaces a former covenant between God and the covenant people. Now, we know that the covenant people under the said former covenant were not all peoples, but are a specific people chosen by God among all other peoples.

Hebrews 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

In the prophecy of Jeremiah itself, Jeremiah tells us of a new covenant between God and "the house of Israel and the house of Judah". One could understand in Hebrews 8:9, the new covenant that the Lord was going to make is with a specific people, whose fathers, God had made a covenant with, sometime at the time of Moses. Their fathers that Jeremiah refers to were the people whom God took by the hand and led out of the land of Egypt. They are no other than the people of the seed of Abraham in Isaac and Jacob (Israel), who were at the time of Moses in slavery in Egypt. They were later called and known to be a nation of people by the name Israel. Sometime later, Israel became divided into two houses, the house of Israel and the house of Judah. This makes then the Jeremiah prophecy concerning the new covenant between God and the house of Israel and the house of Judah, to be a covenant between God and the children of Israel.

Tong
R1228

 

[theefaith]

The new covenant for Israel.

Hebrews 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

That was in reference to the prophecy in Jer.31:31-34.

Some here and to whom others agree, say that the new covenant is for all, even while it is clearly stated the new covenant is with, that is, "with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah". How does the house of Israel and the house of Judah, refer to all? This begs for an explanation.

@Mungo @Davy @Prayer Warrior @justbyfaith

Tong
R1227

matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


what else is there but the body of Christ the church the kingdom of God on earth?

things that used to apply to Israel now apply to the church?

the church is the child of promise and Israel is now of the bond woman? Gal 4

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[Tong2020]

matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


what else is there but the body of Christ the church the kingdom of God on earth?

things that used to apply to Israel now apply to the church?

the church is the child of promise and Israel is now of the bond woman? Gal 4

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Sorry, but the subject is the new covenant and not the kingdom of God.

Tong
R1229

 

[theefaith]

Mary did Jesus king of heaven man. Queen of heaven is a pagan term!

queen of Heaven was a condemned pagan thing in the OT But if Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33 then Mary is queen the mother of the king in the line of david is queen if Jesus is king of heaven Mary is queen of heaven

 

[DaChaser]

Yes they apply the promises given to isreal to the church and states God is done with Israel all their prophesies are fulfilled in the church

which is nonsensical and cause ya to have to spiritualist prophecy which should never be done

They would hold though that God still has spiritual Isreal in the sense that he will be saving Jews now into the Church!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The new covenant for Israel.

Hebrews 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

That was in reference to the prophecy in Jer.31:31-34.

Some here and to whom others agree, say that the new covenant is for all, even while it is clearly stated the new covenant is with, that is, "with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah". How does the house of Israel and the house of Judah, refer to all? This begs for an explanation.

@Mungo @Davy @Prayer Warrior @justbyfaith

Tong
R1227

Hi, Tong,

Here's an explanation of the New Covenant that I believe addresses what you're saying.

The New Covenant was originally given to Israel and includes a promise of fruitfulness, blessing, and a peaceful existence in the Promised Land. In Ezekiel 36:28–30 God says, “Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. . . . I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine.” Deuteronomy 30:1–5 contains similar promises related to Israel under the New Covenant. After the resurrection of Christ, Gentiles were brought into the blessing of the New Covenant, too (Acts 10; Ephesians 2:13–14).

We are no longer under the Law but under grace (Romans 6:14–15). The Old Covenant has served its purpose, and it has been replaced by “a better covenant” (Hebrews 7:22). “In fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises” (Hebrews 8:6).

Under the New Covenant, we are given the opportunity to receive salvation as a free gift (Ephesians 2:8–9). Our responsibility is to exercise faith in Christ, the One who fulfilled the Law on our behalf and brought an end to the Law’s sacrifices through His own sacrificial death. Through the life-giving Holy Spirit who lives in all believers (Romans 8:9–11), we share in the inheritance of Christ and enjoy a permanent, unbroken relationship with God (Hebrews 9:15).

Source: What is the New Covenant? | GotQuestions.org​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

queen of Heaven was a condemned pagan thing in the OT But if Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33 then Mary is queen the mother of the king in the line of david is queen if Jesus is king of heaven Mary is queen of heaven

Faulty logic

Jesus was not created

he was before Abraham. He spoke to Moses, he freed Israel from Egypt. He entered the flesh bit of Mary. He always was

In order for Mary to be queen she would have to have created God before time began

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They would hold though that God still has spiritual Isreal in the sense that he will be saving Jews now into the Church!

While I agree all Jews saved now enter the church

most of the ot prophecies concerning Israel have nothing to do with this. They are adding covenant all promises the the church the church was never promised

 

[justbyfaith]

The new covenant for Israel.

Hebrews 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

That was in reference to the prophecy in Jer.31:31-34.

Some here and to whom others agree, say that the new covenant is for all, even while it is clearly stated the new covenant is with, that is, "with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah". How does the house of Israel and the house of Judah, refer to all? This begs for an explanation.

@Mungo @Davy @Prayer Warrior @justbyfaith

Tong
R1227

Ephesians 3:6 shows clearly that the New Covenant is also for the Gentiles and not only for Israel and Judah.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ephesians 3:6 shows clearly that the New Covenant is also for the Gentiles and not only for Israel and Judah.

Read the whole verse. The heirs are to the gospel of Christ.

most OT prophecies concerning Israel had Nothing to do with eternal salvation.

context of what is promised is essential

 

[justbyfaith]

Read the whole verse. The heirs are to the gospel of Christ.

most OT prophecies concerning Israel had Nothing to do with eternal salvation.

context of what is promised is essential

I'm not sure what your point is. Is not the gospel of Christ, the New Covenant?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm not sure what your point is. Is not the gospel of Christ, the New Covenant?

For eternal life in heaven yes

isreal has its own covenant concerning things here in earth. The church has no pet in that covenant. And that covenant is the one God he would renew.

 

[DaChaser]

While I agree all Jews saved now enter the church

most of the ot prophecies concerning Israel have nothing to do with this. They are adding covenant all promises the the church the church was never promised

I am a Covenant Theology premil, so while do see the Church as now Spiritual israel, national israel to me will receive those OT promises when Second Coming happens!

 

[Tong2020]

Hi, Tong,

Here's an explanation of the New Covenant that I believe addresses what you're saying.

The New Covenant was originally given to Israel and includes a promise of fruitfulness, blessing, and a peaceful existence in the Promised Land. In Ezekiel 36:28–30 God says, “Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. . . . I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine.” Deuteronomy 30:1–5 contains similar promises related to Israel under the New Covenant. After the resurrection of Christ, Gentiles were brought into the blessing of the New Covenant, too (Acts 10; Ephesians 2:13–14).

We are no longer under the Law but under grace (Romans 6:14–15). The Old Covenant has served its purpose, and it has been replaced by “a better covenant” (Hebrews 7:22). “In fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises” (Hebrews 8:6).

Under the New Covenant, we are given the opportunity to receive salvation as a free gift (Ephesians 2:8–9). Our responsibility is to exercise faith in Christ, the One who fulfilled the Law on our behalf and brought an end to the Law’s sacrifices through His own sacrificial death. Through the life-giving Holy Spirit who lives in all believers (Romans 8:9–11), we share in the inheritance of Christ and enjoy a permanent, unbroken relationship with God (Hebrews 9:15).

Source: What is the New Covenant? | GotQuestions.org​

Hi @Prayer Warrior ,

My question is "How does the house of Israel and the house of Judah, refer to all?" I tagged you because you seemed to agree with Mungo that the New covenant is for all. But with your response post here, it seems that you believe that "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" does not refer to all. That confuses me. And I find that as not satisfying the question.

Tong
R1230

 

[Tong2020]

Ephesians 3:6 shows clearly that the New Covenant is also for the Gentiles and not only for Israel and Judah.

Sorry, but I don't see that that really answer the question: How does the house of Israel and the house of Judah, refer to all? Or are you saying here that "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" does not refer to all people?

Tong
R1231

 

[justbyfaith]

For eternal life in heaven yes

isreal has its own covenant concerning things here in earth. The church has no pet in that covenant. And that covenant is the one God he would renew.

I believe that the New Covenant, spoken of in Hebrews 8:8-10, is a covenant for all people.

The New Covenant is simply the gospel.

Sorry, but I don't see that that really answer the question: How does the house of Israel and the house of Judah, refer to all? Or are you saying here that "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" does not refer to all people?

Tong
R1231

The focus is not on the fact that the New Covenant is given to the house of Israel and Judah; but on the fact that it is the New Covenant; and that the New Covenant refers to everything that we read in the New Testament (for, "covenant" and "testament" are synonymous terms when you go from translation to translation); and therefore it is not only given to Israel and Judah; but also to the Gentiles (Ephesians 3:6). These things are spiritually discerned; you must consider the underlying meaning in the scriptures involved.

 

[theefaith]

Sorry, but the subject is the new covenant and not the kingdom of God.

Tong
R1229

New covenant
Kingdom of God on earth
Vineyard
Household of faith
House of the mountain of the Lord
Body of Christ
The church
All are the one same thing!
The one true church founded by Christ!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Hi @Prayer Warrior ,

My question is "How does the house of Israel and the house of Judah, refer to all?" I tagged you because you seemed to agree with Mungo that the New covenant is for all. But with your response post here, it seems that you believe that "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" does not refer to all. That confuses me. And I find that as not satisfying the question.

Tong
R1230

Did you read my whole answer? The New Covenant is not only for Israel. Christians are part of this covenant through the blood of Jesus Christ. All refers to Israel and Gentiles who place their faith in Him.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said:
Sorry, but I don't see that that really answer the question: How does the house of Israel and the house of Judah, refer to all? Or are you saying here that "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" does not refer to all people?

The focus is not on the fact that the New Covenant is given to the house of Israel and Judah; but on the fact that it is the New Covenant; and that the New Covenant refers to everything that we read in the New Testament (for, "covenant" and "testament" are synonymous terms when you go from translation to translation); and therefore it is not only given to Israel and Judah; but also to the Gentiles (Ephesians 3:6). These things are spiritually discerned; you must consider the underlying meaning in the scriptures involved.

Perhaps, your focus is on that. But the focus of my question is with reference to the Jeremiah prophecy of a new covenant between God and the house of Israel and the house of Judah, which Mungo said is for all people to which you gave your agreement to. So, I asked, "How does the house of Israel and the house of Judah, refer to all?" It was a clarificatory question more than it is an objection. So, then it is clear that you don't agree that the house of Israel and the house of Judah refers to all.

Tong
R1236