The New Covenant

[CharismaticLady]

Hi @CharismaticLady

I don't understand why you have mentioned the Jews who were saved at Pentecost, because that is not under dispute: for they form part of the believing remnant of Israel.

I have read that Peter and Paul were martyred in Rome, Paul was martyred by beheading for he was a Roman citizen, so he could not be crucified as Peter is traditionally said to have been. He is said to have been crucified upside down. Both methods were horrible ways to die, weren't they? but at least Paul's death would have been quicker.

With love in Christ Jesus
our Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

Thanks. I've always heard it was tradition, and not of record, and I don't trust traditions too much.

If I'm not mistaken, you are saying that the Church is NOT under covenant. What covenant is being talked about in 1 Corinthians 11:25 in the Lord's Supper. And in Hebrews 10:29 it talks of the blood of the covenant by which you were sanctified?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Hello there,

I have been reading through several threads, catching up on the weeks entries I have missed while my computer was under repair. The last one I read through, started by @marks:- Faithful and Just to Forgive . . . - brought to mind the subject of the New Covenant, which was brought into the discussion between @marks and @CharismaticLady.

I do not believe that the church which is the Body of Christ, being called out during this dispensation, is in a covenant relationship with God. For the new covenant, as with the old covenant will be made with Israel.

What are your thoughts concerning this?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

All saved persons throughout time are in a Covenant relationship to God.
Dispensationalist error fragments the bible.

 

[quietthinker]

Hello there,

I have been reading through several threads, catching up on the weeks entries I have missed while my computer was under repair. The last one I read through, started by @marks:- Faithful and Just to Forgive . . . - brought to mind the subject of the New Covenant, which was brought into the discussion between @marks and @CharismaticLady.

I do not believe that the church which is the Body of Christ, being called out during this dispensation, is in a covenant relationship with God. For the new covenant, as with the old covenant will be made with Israel.

What are your thoughts concerning this?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Charity, consider this.....The promise of redemption was given to Adam and his seed. All other promises (covenants) are a reiteration of this same promise. The phenomena of Israel is but a type of God's people called out of Egypt.
The tabernacle/temple of Israel is a type. In fact, all the stories/ the history of scripture is but a type for the one thing; God's message and Salvation Plan lived out in real life analogies by people and nations and ceremonies given.

There are only ever two sides; God and Satan....Cain and Able....Israel and the Heathens....Jerusalem and Babylon right down to the struggle as Christians we have within ourselves between good and evil.
To put the spotlight of focus on Israel is but a misapplication of the intent of scripture and as first promised to Adam. The spotlight is to be on Jesus as he is the revealing of God's salvation plan. God's purposes are to be understood as finding (past, present continuous tense) fulfilment in Jesus and his activity.
All other focus(s) are none other than decoys and detract from the primary objective

 

[Enoch111]

If I'm not mistaken, you are saying that the Church is NOT under covenant.

Charity holds to the warped teachings of Bullinger etc. which is know as Hyper or Ultra - Dispensationalism. This is a false doctrine that she is believing. The Companion Bible was edited by Bullinger and is full of false teachings. [Note: I have capitalized Body of Christ below]

Hyper-Dispensationalism (also known as Ultra-Dispensationalism, Mid Acts Dispensationalism) is a movement that sounds Biblical, but in essence have doctrines that are false and that are dangerous to the Body of Christ. The main doctrines of Hyper-Dispensationalism concerning the New Covenant are: The Bible is written for us but not all of it is for us, that is the Body of Christ only is to follow what the Apostle Paul taught in his Epistles for doctrine and practice.

Paul was the first Christian and the Body of Christ (Christian Church) started with his conversion. The Gospels are not for the Body of Christ but are for the nation of Israel. Jesus only came to save the nation of Israel and His teachings were faith plus works for salvation, and the New Covenant was only for the nation of Israel and the Body of Christ is not in the New Covenant.

Mid-Acts Dipensationalism

 

[Steve Owen]

As I explained in my previous post to Enoch111, 2 Corinthians was written prior to the revelation of God to Paul concerning the church which is the Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:22-23).

Ah! So the Holy Spirit made an error putting that bit in the Bible. Got it!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Charity holds to the warped teachings of Bullinger etc. which is know as Hyper or Ultra - Dispensationalism. This is a false doctrine that she is believing. The Companion Bible was edited by Bullinger and is full of false teachings. [Note: I have capitalized Body of Christ below]

Hyper-Dispensationalism (also known as Ultra-Dispensationalism, Mid Acts Dispensationalism) is a movement that sounds Biblical, but in essence have doctrines that are false and that are dangerous to the Body of Christ. The main doctrines of Hyper-Dispensationalism concerning the New Covenant are: The Bible is written for us but not all of it is for us, that is the Body of Christ only is to follow what the Apostle Paul taught in his Epistles for doctrine and practice.

Paul was the first Christian and the Body of Christ (Christian Church) started with his conversion. The Gospels are not for the Body of Christ but are for the nation of Israel. Jesus only came to save the nation of Israel and His teachings were faith plus works for salvation, and the New Covenant was only for the nation of Israel and the Body of Christ is not in the New Covenant.

Mid-Acts Dipensationalism

I wonder if there is a particular denomination associated with this teaching?

 

[marks]

Hyper-Dispensationalism (also known as Ultra-Dispensationalism, Mid Acts Dispensationalism) is a movement that sounds Biblical, but in essence have doctrines that are false and that are dangerous to the Body of Christ. The main doctrines of Hyper-Dispensationalism concerning the New Covenant are: The Bible is written for us but not all of it is for us, that is the Body of Christ only is to follow what the Apostle Paul taught in his Epistles for doctrine and practice.

It's putting words into someone's mouth to say that if you divide the Scriptures differently than I do then you are saying parts aren't for us. Everyone knows that when God told man to build an ark, it was that man at that time. But who says that the Scriptures concerning Noah aren't there for our benefit?

Much love!

 

[Ezra]

Curious, if we are not in covenant relationship, what type of relationship are we in?

good question i think they should study more closely .i am in full relationship with christ

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Hello @Philip James,

Israel are associated with a covenant, Old and New. Believing Gentiles during the Acts were blessed with faithful Abraham, but by nature and in the flesh Gentiles were strangers from the covenant of promise: and in the teaching concerning the Church which is the Body of Christ no covenant of any description is known.

We today have the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus, promised before the world began (Titus 1:2). This is the only promise we are given, but there are such wondrous blessing associated with it.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

This not what scripture teaches.
All saved persons are in the Covenant of Redemption.

 

[Jay Ross]

Israel(ites) are associated with a covenant, Old and New. Believing Gentiles during the Acts were blessed with faithful Abraham, but by nature and in the flesh Gentiles were strangers from the covenant of promise: and in the teaching concerning the Church which is the Body of Christ no covenant of any description is known.

We today have the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus, promised before the world began (Titus 1:2). This is the only promise we are given, but there are such wondrous blessing associated with it.

Charity, this post is both right and wrong. Like Abraham, we Gentiles in Christ are expected to walk in God's Earth just as Abraham and his descendants were required to walk the length and breadth within God's "Earth" here on our "planet." The source text of Genesis 13:14-17 needs to be unpacked and understood a little differently from how the scholars have translated these verses for us to read.

Titus 1:2 which you referenced said the following: -

Titus 1:1-3: - 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;​

Echoes the same view of an ancient covenant/promise from God which Christ referenced in Matt 13:52, which points to an ancient salvation covenant from the beginning of time which has been refreshed through the actions of Christ for the salvation of all the people who have and will live on the face of this earth. This salvation covenant was offered to Cain, and it seems to me that Cain allowed the influence of Satan to lead him down a very different pathway away from God's love for mankind.

What has been labelled by man as the "Old" and the "New" covenant found in Exodus 19 and Jeremiah 31, is the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nations covenant, which also has embedded within it the Salvation Covenant.

This not what scripture teaches.
All saved persons are in the Covenant of Redemption.

Sadly, I think that you are missing what Charity was posting and alluding to with respect to the ancient covenant was.

You have pointed to a "Covenant of redemption" for all of mankind, and Charity in referencing Titus 1:2 was also pointing to the same "Covenant of Salvation," another "title" for the same covenantal promises, of redemptions that you have pointed towards.

The theological understanding of how this is played out by God seems to me to be the sticking point in many discussions between people of faith with understanding, which is not necessarily from God.

God's intention at Mt Sinai, was for Abraham's blood descendants to become His Kingdom of Priests, His Holy Nation and His possession among the nations, i.e. the Gentiles, but was rejected and the nation of Israel rebelled against this covenant, labelled the "old covenant." Again it is God's stated intention that in our near future that He will make like new again this same Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the Nations Covenant once more around 3,500 years after the initial entering into the first, i.e. the labelled "Old Covenant," and so that Abraham's blood descendants can be a blessing to all of the nations/peoples of the earth. As such Charity was correct in her statement,: -

"Believing Gentiles during the Acts were blessed with faithful Abraham, but by nature and in the flesh Gentiles were strangers from the covenant of promise: and in the teaching concerning the Church which is the Body of Christ no covenant of any description is known."​

Now it is man in his befuddled understanding that has brought confusion into how God intends to work out mankind's' salvation and redemption in our future.

Shalom.

 

[Davy]

Hello there,

I have been reading through several threads, catching up on the weeks entries I have missed while my computer was under repair. The last one I read through, started by @marks:- Faithful and Just to Forgive . . . - brought to mind the subject of the New Covenant, which was brought into the discussion between @marks and @CharismaticLady.

I do not believe that the church which is the Body of Christ, being called out during this dispensation, is in a covenant relationship with God. For the new covenant, as with the old covenant will be made with Israel.

What are your thoughts concerning this?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

That would mean you may not realize what all is written in God's Old Testament prophets.

The Book of Hosea would be a good starting place, God gave that through His prophet Hosea, specifically to the "house of Israel" (the ten tribe northern kingdom of Israel, not the Jews).

In Romans 9, Apostle Paul quoted a passage from Hosea 1 to Roman Gentile believers on Christ Jesus.

Rom 9:24-26
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He saith also in Osee, 'I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God.'
KJV

That underlined part comes directly from Hosea 1, which was God speaking to northern kingdom of Israel (ten tribes).

Question: how then, could Paul quote that to believing Gentiles like he did there? It is applied to both believing Israel and believing Gentiles together, as one body. So who would that be today?

 

[charity]

Charity, this post is both right and wrong. Like Abraham, we Gentiles in Christ are expected to walk in God's Earth just as Abraham and his descendants were required to walk the length and breadth within God's "Earth" here on our "planet." The source text of Genesis 13:14-17 needs to be unpacked and understood a little differently from how the scholars have translated these verses for us to read.

Titus 1:2 which you referenced said the following: -

Titus 1:1-3: - 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;​

Echoes the same view of an ancient covenant/promise from God which Christ referenced in Matt 13:52, which points to an ancient salvation covenant from the beginning of time which has been refreshed through the actions of Christ for the salvation of all the people who have and will live on the face of this earth. This salvation covenant was offered to Cain, and it seems to me that Cain allowed the influence of Satan to lead him down a very different pathway away from God's love for mankind.

What has been labelled by man as the "Old" and the "New" covenant found in Exodus 19 and Jeremiah 31, is the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nations covenant, which also has embedded within it the Salvation Covenant.
Shalom.

Hello @Jay Ross,

I acknowledge what you have said with thanks.

The covenants of the Old Testament, as we know, are either 'covenants of obligation', in which the contracting parties agree to observe certain terms, or 'covenants of promise,' in which no such agreement is entered.

The Old Covenant, made with Israel and Judah, was a covenant of obligation, which they were unable to keep. Hebrews 8:7-13, on the basis of Jeremiah 31:31, makes known the New Covenant which God will make with that chosen nation, giving the reason for the failure of the Old Covenant, and the reason why the New Covenant will not fail, ie.,

'But now hath He (Christ) obtained a more excellent ministry,
.. by how much also He is the mediator of a better covenant,
.... which was established upon better promises.
For if that first covenant had been faultless,
.. then should no place have been sought for the second.
.... For finding fault with them,
He saith,

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord,
.. when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
.. in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt;
.... because they continued not in my covenant,
...... and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
For this is the covenant that I will make
.. with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord;
.... I will put my laws into their mind,
...... and write them in their hearts:
........ and I will be to them a God,
.......... and they shall be to me a people:
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour,
.. and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord:
.... for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness,
.. and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."​

In that He saith, 'A new covenant', He hath made the first old.'
.. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.'

* This Scripture makes clear to which company this covenant belongs, yet many believers talk of The New Covenant as applying to themselves.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

That would mean you may not realise what all is written in God's Old Testament prophets.

The Book of Hosea would be a good starting place, God gave that through His prophet Hosea, specifically to the "house of Israel" (the ten tribe northern kingdom of Israel, not the Jews).

In Romans 9, Apostle Paul quoted a passage from Hosea 1 to Roman Gentile believers on Christ Jesus.

Rom 9:24-26
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He saith also in Osee, 'I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God.'
KJV

That underlined part comes directly from Hosea 1, which was God speaking to northern kingdom of Israel (ten tribes).

Question: how then, could Paul quote that to believing Gentiles like he did there? It is applied to both believing Israel and believing Gentiles together, as one body. So who would that be today?

Hello @Davy,

The epistle to the Romans is written to both Jew and Gentile members of the assembly of believers resident there. Sometimes Paul talks directly to the Jews among them, and sometimes directly to the Gentiles, at other times there is no differentiation, this is determined by the context. In chapter 9, the burden of Paul's heart concerns His own brethren, who were Israelites, and the whole chapter concerns them.

In the verses you have highlighted, Paul refers to both Jew and Gentile among them, in relation to 'the vessels of mercy which He had afore prepared unto glory.':-

'Hath not the potter power over the clay,
of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew His wrath, and to make His power known,
endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
.. And that He might make known the riches of His glory
.... on the vessels of mercy,
...... which He had afore prepared unto glory,
........ Even us, whom He hath called,
.......... not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
(Rom 9:21-24)

* I am acquainted with the reference you make to Hosea, but thank you for bringing it to my attention here.

'Then said God, "Call his name Loammi: ('Not My People')
for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea,
which cannot be measured nor numbered;
and it shall come to pass,
that in the place where it was said unto them, "Ye are not my people,"
there it shall be said unto them, "Ye are the sons of the living God."
Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together,
and appoint themselves one head,
and they shall come up out of the land:
for great shall be the day of Jezreel.'
(Hosea 1:9-11)

Within the love of Christ
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Charity, this post is both right and wrong. Like Abraham, we Gentiles in Christ are expected to walk in God's Earth just as Abraham and his descendants were required to walk the length and breadth within God's "Earth" here on our "planet." The source text of Genesis 13:14-17 needs to be unpacked and understood a little differently from how the scholars have translated these verses for us to read.

Titus 1:2 which you referenced said the following: -

Titus 1:1-3: - 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;​

Echoes the same view of an ancient covenant/promise from God which Christ referenced in Matt 13:52, which points to an ancient salvation covenant from the beginning of time which has been refreshed through the actions of Christ for the salvation of all the people who have and will live on the face of this earth. This salvation covenant was offered to Cain, and it seems to me that Cain allowed the influence of Satan to lead him down a very different pathway away from God's love for mankind.

What has been labelled by man as the "Old" and the "New" covenant found in Exodus 19 and Jeremiah 31, is the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nations covenant, which also has embedded within it the Salvation Covenant.



Sadly, I think that you are missing what Charity was posting and alluding to with respect to the ancient covenant was.

You have pointed to a "Covenant of redemption" for all of mankind, and Charity in referencing Titus 1:2 was also pointing to the same "Covenant of Salvation," another "title" for the same covenantal promises, of redemptions that you have pointed towards.

The theological understanding of how this is played out by God seems to me to be the sticking point in many discussions between people of faith with understanding, which is not necessarily from God.

God's intention at Mt Sinai, was for Abraham's blood descendants to become His Kingdom of Priests, His Holy Nation and His possession among the nations, i.e. the Gentiles, but was rejected and the nation of Israel rebelled against this covenant, labelled the "old covenant." Again it is God's stated intention that in our near future that He will make like new again this same Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the Nations Covenant once more around 3,500 years after the initial entering into the first, i.e. the labelled "Old Covenant," and so that Abraham's blood descendants can be a blessing to all of the nations/peoples of the earth. As such Charity was correct in her statement,: -

"Believing Gentiles during the Acts were blessed with faithful Abraham, but by nature and in the flesh Gentiles were strangers from the covenant of promise: and in the teaching concerning the Church which is the Body of Christ no covenant of any description is known."​

Now it is man in his befuddled understanding that has brought confusion into how God intends to work out mankind's' salvation and redemption in our future.

Shalom.

Jay,
hello Jay, thanks for your thoughtful response.
There is a progressive revelation and unity to the Covenants of God revealed to mankind. They are mostly to be kept together, not fragmented and kept apart. I am familiar with the teaching charity puts forth, as I was first taught similar to that, but have learned a bit more since then.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Hello @Jay Ross,

I acknowledge what you have said with thanks.

The covenants of the Old Testament, as we know, are either 'covenants of obligation', in which the contracting parties agree to observe certain terms, or 'covenants of promise,' in which no such agreement is entered.

The Old Covenant, made with Israel and Judah, was a covenant of obligation, which they were unable to keep. Hebrews 8:7-13, on the basis of Jeremiah 31:31, makes known the New Covenant which God will make with that chosen nation, giving the reason for the failure of the Old Covenant, and the reason why the New Covenant will not fail, ie.,

'But now hath He (Christ) obtained a more excellent ministry,
.. by how much also He is the mediator of a better covenant,
.... which was established upon better promises.
For if that first covenant had been faultless,
.. then should no place have been sought for the second.
.... For finding fault with them,
He saith,

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord,
.. when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
.. in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt;
.... because they continued not in my covenant,
...... and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
For this is the covenant that I will make
.. with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord;
.... I will put my laws into their mind,
...... and write them in their hearts:
........ and I will be to them a God,
.......... and they shall be to me a people:
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour,
.. and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord:
.... for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness,
.. and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."​

In that He saith, 'A new covenant', He hath made the first old.'
.. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.'

* This Scripture makes clear to which company this covenant belongs, yet many believers talk of The New Covenant as applying to themselves.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

New Covenant believers, the churches, are in the new covenant, because they are in Jesus whose blood is the basis for it.
This is the message of the new covenant. isa 49:1-8...we are united by the work of the Servant of the Lord.
To miss this , is to miss the whole ball of wax.

 

[Davy]

Hello @Davy,

The epistle to the Romans is written to both Jew and Gentile members of the assembly of believers resident there. Sometimes Paul talks directly to the Jews among them, and sometimes directly to the Gentiles, at other times there is no differentiation, this is determined by the context. In chapter 9, the burden of Paul's heart concerns His own brethren, who were Israelites, and the whole chapter concerns them.

In the verses you have highlighted, Paul refers to both Jew and Gentile among them, in relation to 'the vessels of mercy which He had afore prepared unto glory.':-

'Hath not the potter power over the clay,
of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew His wrath, and to make His power known,
endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
.. And that He might make known the riches of His glory
.... on the vessels of mercy,
...... which He had afore prepared unto glory,
........ Even us, whom He hath called,
.......... not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
(Rom 9:21-24)

* I am acquainted with the reference you make to Hosea, but thank you for bringing it to my attention here.

'Then said God, "Call his name Loammi: ('Not My People')
for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea,
which cannot be measured nor numbered;
and it shall come to pass,
that in the place where it was said unto them, "Ye are not my people,"
there it shall be said unto them, "Ye are the sons of the living God."
Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together,
and appoint themselves one head,
and they shall come up out of the land:
for great shall be the day of Jezreel.'
(Hosea 1:9-11)

Within the love of Christ
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

Thing is, the quote from the Book of Hosea that Apostle Paul quoted wasn't given to the Jews. It was given to the ten northern tribes of the house of Israel. The Jews were those of the southern kingdom of Judah, and hence the origin of the word Jew (from Judah). Apostle Paul being a scholar of the Old Testament, would have well understood this point.

What is the difference then? Since Paul quoted from Hosea, which was not written to Judah, but to the ten tribes of Israel, and the ten tribes were separated from the Jews per 1 Kings 11 to 2 Kings 17? It means ten tribe Israelites were the main ones Paul was pointing to among the Romans in Romans 9:25-26.

Jews of course would be included among the Romans, because the majority of Jews were scattered through the countries also like the ten tribes were before. Yet Paul tried specifically to preach The Gospel to those Jews in Rome, and the majority of them still rejected The Gospel (Acts 28).

So...

Jesus Christ is... The New Covenant. Paul showed by that how many of the ten tribes that were scattered abroad were among the Roman Gentiles, and MUST be included in those he said that would believe, while the majority of Jews in Rome rejected Christ still. So to infer the New Covenant is only to Jews, or not yet established via Christ Jesus, is to lie and debase God's Plan for The Gospel.

 

[charity]

New Covenant believers, the churches, are in the new covenant, because they are in Jesus whose blood is the basis for it.
This is the message of the new covenant. isa 49:1-8...we are united by the work of the Servant of the Lord.
To miss this , is to miss the whole ball of wax.

'Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far;
The LORD hath called me from the womb;
.... from the bowels of My mother hath He made mention of My name.
And He hath made My mouth like a sharp sword;
.. in the shadow of His hand hath He hid me,
.... and made me a polished shaft;
...... in His quiver hath He hid Me;
And said unto Me, "Thou art My servant, O Israel, (Prince of God) in Whom I will be glorified."
.. Then I said, "I have laboured in vain, I have spent My strength for nought, and in vain:
.... yet surely My judgment is with the LORD, and My work with My God."
"And now," saith the LORD that formed Me from the womb to be His servant, to bring Jacob again to Him,
.. "Though Israel be not gathered,
.... yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD,
...... and My God shall be My strength."
And He said, "It is a light thing that Thou shouldest be My servant
.. to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel:
.... I will also give Thee for a light to the Gentiles,
...... that Thou mayest be My salvation unto the end of the earth." (Praise God!)
Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and His Holy One,
.. "to Him whom man despiseth, to Him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers,
.... Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship,
...... because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and He shall choose Thee.
Thus saith the LORD, "In an acceptable time have I heard Thee,
.. and in a day of salvation have I helped thee,
.... and I will preserve Thee, and give Thee for a covenant of the people,
...... to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; ... '
(Isaiah 49:1-8)

Praise His Holy Name!

Hello @Anthony D'Arienzo,

How lovely this passage of Scripture is! The Messiah's words, spoken through Isaiah. The words of verse 8, concerning the covenant, will come to pass in it's time. The Lord has been given, and He has died and risen again to God's right hand, until the time of His return. He shall be for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages', for God has said it; but not in this dispensation.

Thank you so much for this,
What a blessing to read it,
on this rainy night in February 2020
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

Thing is, the quote from the Book of Hosea that Apostle Paul quoted wasn't given to the Jews. It was given to the ten northern tribes of the house of Israel. The Jews were those of the southern kingdom of Judah, and hence the origin of the word Jew (from Judah). Apostle Paul being a scholar of the Old Testament, would have well understood this point.

What is the difference then? Since Paul quoted from Hosea, which was not written to Judah, but to the ten tribes of Israel, and the ten tribes were separated from the Jews per 1 Kings 11 to 2 Kings 17? It means ten tribe Israelites were the main ones Paul was pointing to among the Romans in Romans 9:25-26.

Jews of course would be included among the Romans, because the majority of Jews were scattered through the countries also like the ten tribes were before. Yet Paul tried specifically to preach The Gospel to those Jews in Rome, and the majority of them still rejected The Gospel (Acts 28).

So...

Jesus Christ is... The New Covenant. Paul showed by that how many of the ten tribes that were scattered abroad were among the Roman Gentiles, and MUST be included in those he said that would believe, while the majority of Jews in Rome rejected Christ still. So to infer the New Covenant is only to Jews, or not yet established via Christ Jesus, is to lie and debase God's Plan for The Gospel.

Thank you very much, @Davy,

But I must stand by what I have said to date. The New Covenant will be made with the nation of Israel (all twelve tribes).

Forgive my brevity, but I have to go now,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay,
hello Jay, thanks for your thoughtful response.
There is a progressive revelation and unity to the Covenants of God revealed to mankind. They are mostly to be kept together, not fragmented and kept apart. I am familiar with the teaching charity puts forth, as I was first taught similar to that, but have learned a bit more since then.

My perspective is that I consider that Christ's death was the process change that was necessary for the ancient Salvation Covenant that has been in place since the time of Adam for the salvation of mankind after the time of the cross as foretold by the prophet Daniel in Daniel 9:24.

I do not consider that the Covenant itself has been changed, but that the change was with respect to the process whereby righteous with God could be obtain through the faith of believing in Christ and His death.

Christ's sacrifice on the cross refurbished/renewed the salvation covenant such that all of mankind can be redeemed through their believing in Him.

Through believing in Christ we are to pick up again the walking in God's earth, in tandem with God/Christ, hand in hand, to discover and understand the length and the breath of the inheritance of the refurbished earth, which we, as God's Saints, have been promised.

Sadly, even today, to many people focus on the conformation covenant of the "Promised Land," which was given to Abraham for Abraham's future descendants, to confirm for them that when they had possession of the extent solemnly promised to Abraham in Gen 15, that having been given this possession of the land for an extended period of time, they would in the distant future, along with Abraham, will receive the Earth as God had promised to Abraham in Genesis 12:1. In Gen 15 Abraham had questioned as to how he could know that God's Promise would be delivered in the distant future with respect to his life and that this could also be confirmed for his descendants to know and believe.

Shalom

 

[charity]

Ah! So the Holy Spirit made an error putting that bit in the Bible. Got it!

'And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,
which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(2 Timothy 3:15)

Hello @Steve Owen,

Thank you for your response. Forgive me for not responding to this post before, it slipped through the net.

The epistles written prior to the event at the end of the Acts of the Apostles that necessitated a change of administration, contain much for our learning, but they do not contain any reference to the church which is the Body of Christ: for it was 'hid in God', and not revealed (Ephesians 3:9 & Colossians 1:26) until Israel's final rejection of their Messiah, both in the land and in the dispersion, after the forty-year period of opportunity afforded them, during the period covered by the Acts of the Apostles.

It was then that salvation was sent to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28), and no longer was 'salvation of the Jew' only as it was before (John 4:22). Also, no longer were gentiles able to be grafted into the Olive Tree of Israel, and the New Covenant was now in abeyance along with the blessings associated with it.

All Scripture is 'for' us, but not all is 'about' us.

In Christ Jesus
Chris