Rev. 20:15
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Now show me where they get out, if your doctrine is true!
The Oddities of different teachings through organization(s).
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Rev. 20:15
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Now show me where they get out, if your doctrine is true!
The Bible is the only source of truth with the Spirit aiding you!
People shouldn’t believe what people have said or what people from church history may have said, but check history as it is good to know about the end of the last days for the Christian’s in 1 century.
Check the Bible and see what it says, see what Jesus says, and check the history of before and after Jesus.
Many people disagree with many different things but it is okay, God set it up this way and see if we are gonna love through the differences.
People can be wrong, hell I can always be wrong.
Always check the Bible, and ask God for wisdom.
People shouldn’t believe what people have said or what people from church history may have said, but check history as it is good to know about the end of the last days for the Christian’s in 1 century.
Check the Bible and see what it says, see what Jesus says, and check the history of before and after Jesus.
Many people disagree with many different things but it is okay, God set it up this way and see if we are gonna love through the differences.
People can be wrong, hell I can always be wrong.
Always check the Bible, and ask God for wisdom.
I believe the book of life had to deal with Jewish nation of Israel.
But that scripture is your only justification that people are going to burned forever or supposed to be burning forever.
It doesn’t say people go in the lake of fire forever either. According to revelation 21 it says people have a portion or part. We done went over this the Bible doesn’t stop at revelation 20.
The beast, the false prophet, and the devil are said to go into the lake of fire forever, but it never says people are there forever. Turn over to revelation 21
“And he who sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.” And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment. He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.””
Revelation 21:5-8 RSV
They suffer some type of loss, with their portion being part of the lake of fire.
Then you have another picture in revelation 22
“Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood.”
Revelation 22:15 RSV
“And he who sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.” And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment. He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.””
Revelation 21:5-8 RSV
Revelation 21:5-8 And he who sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.” And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega | Revised Standard Version (RSV
And he who sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.” And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega
bible.com
They suffer some type of loss, with their portion being part of the lake of fire.
Then you have another picture in revelation 22
“Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood.”
Revelation 22:15 RSV
Revelation 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood. | Revised Standard Version (RSV) | Download The Bible App Now
Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood.
bible.com
So in the end do you see people being lost forever being burned forever and ever @Charlie24 or is that just some made up man made tradition?
I’ll admit there is a loss, but they seem to be outside the city gates… living their lives.
If God is the part of the lake of fire? Going through that would cause you to die yourself wouldn’t it?
I’ll admit there is a loss, but they seem to be outside the city gates… living their lives.
If God is the part of the lake of fire? Going through that would cause you to die yourself wouldn’t it?
Rev. 21:27
"And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."
Does that clear it up or do you need more?
Yes but doesn’t stop God from resurrecting people and placing them outside the kingdom, @Charlie24.
You can believe that people aren’t outside but I do cause scripture proclaims it friend.
I don’t think you believe it for some reason and I don’t know why.
It’s alright though I’ll continue to say that God is good and he desires all to turn to him and none to completely perish away as some People say.
You can believe that people aren’t outside but I do cause scripture proclaims it friend.
I don’t think you believe it for some reason and I don’t know why.
It’s alright though I’ll continue to say that God is good and he desires all to turn to him and none to completely perish away as some People say.
Everyone dies and resurrected given a spiritual body, one for those who are faith, and one spiritual body for those who are unfaithful. But God gives good gifts, and outside of the kingdom is his gift to unfaithful. Thank you for talking to me about and reinforcing the faith I have in a good Just God, @Charlie24.
Please read everything posted before commenting - Thank you ! - Matthew
Firstly,
As per my signature, there is a website link that is a website based on a schooling of teaching on the gospels, and the letters of the Bible. I am not telling anyone to go to it and believe it and trust everything that the person may say on there. The thing is that through organizations or congregations many of the times, the filter of understanding simply comes from mans understanding and no reliance on the Spirit, which is given to us as believers to help understand spiritual things that come in and through filtered by the Bible itself. Be it from the Old Testament and the Apostolic Record (which people called the New Testament).
All through the Bible there are mentions of the things about spiritual things, seeking the Kingdom, seeking in faith which God rewards for those who seek him out in faith.
Does that sound right to you? The thing is the Bible, is needed to explain the spiritual things of what is come by and through after leaving this world, but also what is given while living in this world (such as the Holy Spirit that is given by God through faith in Christ in which one can actually have peace with God even though going through the world they will have struggles - Romans 5:1-10).
What I have found interesting is that people can place human beings as God, as they are the ones from the pulpit who are right, and that anything anyone else may say are wrong, and going against someone who taught you differently.
Does that sound right to you? That even a person who is teaching from the pulpit, they should be fully trusted? As the flesh from the Bible is said to be faulty, in the sense that there is nothing good with-in the flesh. However, can a person who is on a pulpit and teaching, use the Holy Spirit with-in them, and the Spirit of christ with-in them when they explain things as they go line upon line, also checking scripture against scripture?
Can a human being wrong about what they are teaching, and it not line up by and through the spirit? Is it not the spirit, which brings forth truth at least as close as one can get it to?
In the end through odd belief systems taught by organizations through their own 'flesh', we are called to love others by and through Spirit, and to be graceful towards them, and try to share with them the truths of the Bible, but if they reject all one can do is still love them either way, without having to dogmatic on them.
As at the end of the day, I can not judge anyone in what they choose to believe, but can lovingly share by the spirit the truth that has been made known by the scripture, however it is up to them if they will accept the scriptures, by and through hope that the Spirit is leading them to the truth.
What are your thoughts on these things?
I personally say do not believe anything I say, do not believe anything that the person from the www.cult.love website may say, but see what the Bible says, see what history says and the history of what was going on during the Biblical times to see what is truly being said with-in the context and scope via the Bible, and to look and test all things by the Spirit as we are told to do, 1 Thessalonians 5. Go to God in prayer, asking for wisdom and do not doubt him, and may he open up your mind to the spiritual understandings and bless you in the grace and truth that comes from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Firstly,
As per my signature, there is a website link that is a website based on a schooling of teaching on the gospels, and the letters of the Bible. I am not telling anyone to go to it and believe it and trust everything that the person may say on there. The thing is that through organizations or congregations many of the times, the filter of understanding simply comes from mans understanding and no reliance on the Spirit, which is given to us as believers to help understand spiritual things that come in and through filtered by the Bible itself. Be it from the Old Testament and the Apostolic Record (which people called the New Testament).
All through the Bible there are mentions of the things about spiritual things, seeking the Kingdom, seeking in faith which God rewards for those who seek him out in faith.
Does that sound right to you? The thing is the Bible, is needed to explain the spiritual things of what is come by and through after leaving this world, but also what is given while living in this world (such as the Holy Spirit that is given by God through faith in Christ in which one can actually have peace with God even though going through the world they will have struggles - Romans 5:1-10).
What I have found interesting is that people can place human beings as God, as they are the ones from the pulpit who are right, and that anything anyone else may say are wrong, and going against someone who taught you differently.
Does that sound right to you? That even a person who is teaching from the pulpit, they should be fully trusted? As the flesh from the Bible is said to be faulty, in the sense that there is nothing good with-in the flesh. However, can a person who is on a pulpit and teaching, use the Holy Spirit with-in them, and the Spirit of christ with-in them when they explain things as they go line upon line, also checking scripture against scripture?
Can a human being wrong about what they are teaching, and it not line up by and through the spirit? Is it not the spirit, which brings forth truth at least as close as one can get it to?
In the end through odd belief systems taught by organizations through their own 'flesh', we are called to love others by and through Spirit, and to be graceful towards them, and try to share with them the truths of the Bible, but if they reject all one can do is still love them either way, without having to dogmatic on them.
As at the end of the day, I can not judge anyone in what they choose to believe, but can lovingly share by the spirit the truth that has been made known by the scripture, however it is up to them if they will accept the scriptures, by and through hope that the Spirit is leading them to the truth.
What are your thoughts on these things?
I personally say do not believe anything I say, do not believe anything that the person from the www.cult.love website may say, but see what the Bible says, see what history says and the history of what was going on during the Biblical times to see what is truly being said with-in the context and scope via the Bible, and to look and test all things by the Spirit as we are told to do, 1 Thessalonians 5. Go to God in prayer, asking for wisdom and do not doubt him, and may he open up your mind to the spiritual understandings and bless you in the grace and truth that comes from the Lord Jesus Christ.
If you can't show us in Scripture how they are placed outside the gate, then maybe you don't understand what John meant by saying they were outside the gate.
Rev. 22:14-15
"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."
They were cast in the lake of fire, they cannot be outside the gates.
John is saying "for without" in terns of being without access to the gates.
How hard is that to understand, Matthew?
Yes it’s hard to understand cause they are outside the gate as though they are living their lives. It doesn’t say they are in the lake of fire, @Charlie24.
I don’t believe people are annihilated as you are suggesting.
You can believe whatever you want about but I won’t take your word for what you’re perspective respectfully as there is freedom in Christ by the spirit.
I don’t believe people are annihilated as you are suggesting.
You can believe whatever you want about but I won’t take your word for what you’re perspective respectfully as there is freedom in Christ by the spirit.
Show us how they get out of the Lake of Fire, Matthew! You have claimed they get out, now show us or admit that you can't, that what you are teaching has no Scriptural truth!
I don’t care what you may think about me personally or what you may believe about the lake of fire. For me I see it as a purging process that rubs away the darkness of people, and it makes them die to themselves.
I believe God has a place for these people outside the gates of the city,
Why can’t you just leave me be and let me believe what I will without your constantly saying they are burnt forever and ever and ever… that to me shows and tyrannical God who doesn’t allow people to live outside the gates.
Why do you think I need to believe like you do to be justified by God when all people are justified by faith through grace in the Lord?
I believe God has a place for these people outside the gates of the city,
Why can’t you just leave me be and let me believe what I will without your constantly saying they are burnt forever and ever and ever… that to me shows and tyrannical God who doesn’t allow people to live outside the gates.
Why do you think I need to believe like you do to be justified by God when all people are justified by faith through grace in the Lord?
The devil, the false prophet, and the beast are out in the lake of fire forever but it says people have their portion or part in revelation 21.
You’ll have to stop with your dogmatic stance because you’re not gonna convince me of it.
Thank you @Charlie24.
You’ll have to stop with your dogmatic stance because you’re not gonna convince me of it.
Thank you @Charlie24.
You can't take these discussions as personal, Matthew, it it purely doctrinal! I don't hate or dislike you, in fact, I have taken a liking to you.
Why do you think I'm holding your feet to the fire?
I think it is demented what you are trying to convince me to believe.
@Charlie24, you are not doing anything but also justify your own stance in what you believe though you have not out rightly said which goes like this.
People that are saved, upon Christ return, go on to be with God.
Everyone else is burnt up to crisp and done away with.
That is the general gist, and if that is something you are going to believe you shouldn't have any problem with saying that to anyone you meet, or in your church wherever you go if you do. Cause people believe this and they should be able to openly express it but they keep it to themselves most of the time.
@Charlie24, you are not doing anything but also justify your own stance in what you believe though you have not out rightly said which goes like this.
People that are saved, upon Christ return, go on to be with God.
Everyone else is burnt up to crisp and done away with.
That is the general gist, and if that is something you are going to believe you shouldn't have any problem with saying that to anyone you meet, or in your church wherever you go if you do. Cause people believe this and they should be able to openly express it but they keep it to themselves most of the time.
Hey my name is Matthew,
and I don't believe in eternal punishment, but I believe people are rewarded now today for what they do with their lives. People who reap to the flesh do not reap very much after this life, people who reap to the spirit they are reaping to the eternal affairs in which they will be rewarded individually based on what they did having lived a life for God, having love for God and love for others.
People who die in this life that are faithless I believe they go and live in the Heavenly Realm outside of the city of the new Heavenly Jerusalem, and those who are of faith go on to live with God in that place.
The whole lake of fire deal people are said to have their part in the lake of fire but are never said to be their forever like the devil, the false prophet, and the beast are.
I wonder if this lake of fire is coming from God himself, and if it is some type of purification process for God to have for people after this life if they choose to go through it, I do not know personally but it would be a dying to the self assuredly.
So whatever you believe it is up to you,
You can believe that God delights in the fact people go into the lake of fire and they are burnt up and done away with or whatever.
That is between you and God himself.
and I don't believe in eternal punishment, but I believe people are rewarded now today for what they do with their lives. People who reap to the flesh do not reap very much after this life, people who reap to the spirit they are reaping to the eternal affairs in which they will be rewarded individually based on what they did having lived a life for God, having love for God and love for others.
People who die in this life that are faithless I believe they go and live in the Heavenly Realm outside of the city of the new Heavenly Jerusalem, and those who are of faith go on to live with God in that place.
The whole lake of fire deal people are said to have their part in the lake of fire but are never said to be their forever like the devil, the false prophet, and the beast are.
I wonder if this lake of fire is coming from God himself, and if it is some type of purification process for God to have for people after this life if they choose to go through it, I do not know personally but it would be a dying to the self assuredly.
So whatever you believe it is up to you,
You can believe that God delights in the fact people go into the lake of fire and they are burnt up and done away with or whatever.
That is between you and God himself.
Everyone is appointed once to die the physical death, that physical body both the saved and the unsaved will go to the grave at death.
There will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust, according to Daniel.
For the saved, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
For the unsaved "they will open their eyes in Hell, being fomented in the flames."
This is what is taking place until the resurrection.
Cool brother. I differ, and love you.
I believe all of Revelation 1-20 has come to fruition, so I don't except to be judged like those who were judged in their Age, for having the Son of God killed and put to death. Though we will have judgement upon death, and move on to the Realm of God, the Heavenly Realm. Revelation 21-22 are pictures for us to learn from in my opinion.
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