The one who is still to come

[MatthewG]

First off, I am not a "trinitarian."

But what I have been addressing, explains why those who have believed in a Trinity, have not been wrong, but rather only shortsighted. Meaning, they have only considered things according to this world where all is divided out of God--even Christ, just as Eve was divided out of Adam.

Why don't you just be transparent then? Sometimes my patience is way to short to deal with things like this. Be transparent and not so vague?


Disengaging; see ya.

I wont respond cause I just gonna put myself as I dont care.

 

[ScottA]

That’s also the finish, as far as I’m concerned. You might persuade some of the trinitarians.

God has given us an image in creation, called it an image, then came Himself as an image, and said He was an image of God, saying they were the same. That is the issue here. But if you stop looking at it, it doesn't change anything.

 

[Matthias]

Why don't you just be transparent then?

He just was transparent. I found it to be commendable.

Disengaging; see ya.

 

[MatthewG]

He just was transparent. I found it to be commendable.

I haven't cared for the trinity in over the past 7 years.

Yes, as that man stated. People do get blind sighted and follow mass movements that are just commonly accepted, but that doesn't mean none of them do not look faithfully to God, and love Jesus Christ.

There are some people are mean and evil with their ways towards others ( I was a person who looked down others a person who followed Christ ) when I first became a person who believed in his death, burial, and resurrection. Until finally change came.

I don't look down on them, and I don't care to argue symantics.

Its all like you share "everyone has to be convinced in their own mind."

 

[ScottA]

Why don't you just be transparent then? Sometimes my patience is way to short to deal with things like this. Be transparent and not so vague?

What did you think this was? I just--being transparent--explained one of the great mysteries of God...a fulfillment of promise and prophecy.

 

[MatthewG]

What did you think this was? I just--being transparent--explained one of the great mysteries of God...a fulfillment of promise and prophecy.

Do you feel special now? That is your only reward you'll get for that. Only boast in the Lord, not yourself.

I dont believe you showed anything revolutionary. ??? You good dude?

 

[Lambano]

John may be merely be claiming prophetic authority by invoking the "thus saith the Lord" formula like the OT prophets.

Yeah , that is a possibility I had not thought of .

BTW, this "thus saith the Lord" prophetic formula is also an example of this shaliah concept Matthias has brought into play. The prophet is claiming to speak for and act on behalf of God. Which is why false prophets are subject to the death penalty.

In this case, John may be speaking for Jesus speaking for The Father. Chain of command.

 

[Matthias]

To hear some tell it, the Father seldom says anything anywhere in the Bible.

To a Jewish monotheist, the Father speaks incessantly everywhere in the Bible.

 

[MatthewG]

To hear some tell it, the Father seldom says anything anywhere in the Bible.

To a Jewish monotheist, the Father speaks incessantly everywhere in the Bible.

Does just saying Jewish Monotheist, make you not a follower of Jesus? Cause even though we worship the Father in spirit and truth, we follow after Yeshua whom gains us access to Yahavah.

I thought Jewish Monotheist, don't believe in heaven. Or the Jewish religion now as a whole.

 

[MatthewG]

What do you think of this bible text @Matthias,

Supposedly stated by Jesus himself, right before the throne room is shown which is the future victory.
Revelation 3:21 Those who are victorious will sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat with my Father on his throne.
Revelation 3:21 To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

 

[Matthias]

Does just saying Jewish Monotheist, make you not a follower of Jesus?

In the eyes and ears of many, yes. In fact, no.

Cause even though we worship the Father in spirit and truth, we follow after Yeshua whom gains us access to Yahavah.

In Jewish monotheism there is no God besides the Father.

I thought Jewish Monotheist, don't believe in heaven.

I don’t know whatever gave you that idea.

Or the Jewish religion now as a whole.

I don’t have a lot of conversation with unbelieving Jews but when I have, the mention of heaven hasn’t been a problem.

 

[Matthias]

What do you think of this bible text @Matthias,

Supposedly stated by Jesus himself, right before the throne room is shown which is the future victory.
Revelation 3:21 Those who are victorious will sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat with my Father on his throne.
Revelation 3:21 To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Sitting on the throne and reigning with the Messiah doesn’t make those of us who will God himself.

David sat on God’s throne in Jerusalem.

 

[MatthewG]

Sitting on the throne and reigning with the Messiah doesn’t make those of us who will God himself.

Shows subjection.

What do you think about this bible verse:

1 Corinthians 15:24 After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.

Wouldn't that signify he Son sitting with the Father and giving all things back to him, so God can be all in all?

 

[MatthewG]

God's own WORD has always been subjected to Yahavah. When they combine and join back once again I believe you see "LORD GOD ALMIGHTY."

It's almost like transformations, that are show in shows or maybe a seed to a flower even.


Curious your thoughts on this much, @Matthias and ill leave it there.

 

[JustMe]

You do not understand Who Genesis Speaks of = "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness = 3

Genesis = IAM the Elohim of your fathers = Elohenu Abraham Elohenu Isaac Elohenu Jacob = 3
Gospel = IAM the Way the Truth the Life = FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT = 3

Therefore you do not understand Who Revelation Speaks of:
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 4:8
HOLY HOLY HOLY = 3
Lord God Almighty = 3

Can you see this = "says the Lord" = there is only one Lord = Ephesians 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

THREE

Hello David...
Well first off, what has your post to do with my commentary post of Rev 1:8? I do not see your post speaking to it at all. You have switch gears on me and have dug up something that makes sense to you although not to me.

I see you are possessed by the term Elohim as your catch word and maybe your touchstone for who is your God. I really do not know.

What you think is the meaning of Elohim is your conjecture or hypothesis. There is no scripture support that says Elohim means exactly the 3 persons of your choice, your God. In fact its use in the Hebrew Torah when Elohim is used explicitly as a plural, always means either an amplification of who God is; supreme and almighty or a part of his Heavenly state/Kingdom and those residing there.
Saying it another way, while the term Elohim is grammatically plural, it is frequently treated as singular in Hebrew grammar, a phenomenon known as the honorific plural or pluralis majestatis.

Elohim is used over 2500 times in the Hebrew text. Now are we to believe that every time we read each Elohim where found in scripture, we are to know this is code for your 3 persons God?

This identical word Elohim in Tanach refers to Moses as well? Regarding Moses, the Torah says,
The Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made thee a god אֶלהִים, (Elohim) to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.”(Exodus 7:1 KJV)​

Something to seriously ponder on...Now is Moses consisting of 3 persons?

 

[Matthias]

Shows subjection.

What do you think about this bible verse:

1 Corinthians 15:24 After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.

Wouldn't that signify he Son sitting with the Father and giving all things back to him, so God can be all in all?

God is always the head of the Messiah.

 

[Matthias]

God's own WORD has always been subjected to Yahavah. When they combine and join back once again I believe you see "LORD GOD ALMIGHTY."

It's almost like transformations, that are show in shows or maybe a seed to a flower even.


Curious your thoughts on this much, @Matthias and ill leave it there.

Yahweh expresses himself internally in what he thinks and externally in what he speaks and does.

”My words are spirit” (John 6:63). They are connected with and convey the mind of God.

 

[JustMe]

Let me ask you this , Who was speaking in Rev2:8 and Rev22:13 ?

The 'first and the last' and 'the alpha and omega' are idioms and can be uses by anyone, regarding anyone when the application is well understood, the valid reason for using or applying them. The meaning and who is speaking in these two verses of 2:8 and 22:13 is the Son of God and does not interface/interfere or muddy anything in Rev 1:1-8 at all. I would not try to stir up something that is not there. They are separate areas of scripture with separate context and different ideas conveyed.

Knowing not to be afraid to use F & L and A & O for anyone with a unique purpose in mind, and knowing you won't be struck down by lightening for doing so, is half the battle here in understanding these idioms in these verses.

I can explain them further if you wish.

 

[Matthias]

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If we press the idiom too hard someone will no doubt shout “Blasphemy!”

 

[Matthias]

This thread was started because a Catholic member asked me yesterday to explain how Revelation 1:8 - which we both agreed is the Father speaking - is compatible with Jewish monotheism.

It stemmed from a comment I had made earlier to him that, “Every scripture you quoted when properly explained fits perfectly with the Messiah’s own Jewish monotheism.”

How could it not?

The only way that it couldn’t is if the premise is wrong.

What is the premise? -> Jesus himself is a Jewish monotheist.

It is the premise that the Catholic must attack but doesn’t dare.