The pope triples down on his univeralism

[Mungo]

Yes, that is a belief of the Roman Catholic Church. Sure, it's a non-falsifiable hypothesis, but what can be done about it?

Anyway, I suspect that the current Pope has simply been misunderstood in regards to the topic of this thread.

You are right.

The OP was based on a report of an interview with Eugenio Scalfari of La Republica.

According to the latest issue of The Tablet (a Catholic weekly) the Republica interview has been withdrawn from the Vatican website on the grounds that while the interview as reported is broadly reliable, it is less so "on the level of each individual point analysed".

I think it was this interview that I read recently that the reporter took no notes but repoted the interview from memory.

 

[michaelvpardo]

If the Pope does the right thing, he's criticized by the world, if he does the wrong thing, he's criticized by the church. My apologies to my R.C. brethren, but the Pope is still just another man, though saddled with great responsibilities as a spiritual leader of the R.C. Church. I would hope that his church would come to realize that any man is fallible and that our faith should really be rooted in Christ, but that would require changes in dogma and shifts in temporal power that are unlikely to occur. I pray for blessing upon the man and a reformation that begins in the heart. The body of Christ should never be united under a man, Pope or otherwise, as our living head is Jesus Christ, but wouldn't it be a marvelous work of grace if all who called upon His name could look at each other as brethren without mistrust, animosity, or contempt?

 

[aspen]

Infallibility is not a superpower. Only non Catholics misunderstand and therefore misrepresent the dogma associated with infallibility.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Infallibility is not a superpower. Only non Catholics misunderstand and therefore misrepresent the dogma associated with infallibility.

And you can see from some of the posts here, especially the OP, that they're not interested in the truth. And if you think it's just us Catholics, they do it to Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses too. My philosophy is simple. If somebody disagrees with what Catholics believe, I'm fine with that. But to distort our beliefs to fit an image they have of us is not becoming of any Christian. We're supposed to be children of light, drawn to the truth and banishing shadows. But entire books have been written by some Protestants about how pagan the Catholic Church is and it should be noted that Catholics have no such book about Protestants. My question is why? Isn't simple disagreement enough? What impious desire is it to calumniate anyone who doesn't believe as they do?
Yeah, it's frustrating.

 

[aspen]

Frustrating? yes, but very human. People who claim to believe in absolute truth cannot simply disagree with ideas that fall outside their absolute truth box. It must be annihilated.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Frustrating? yes, but very human. People who claim to believe in absolute truth cannot simply disagree with ideas that fall outside their absolute truth box. It must be annihilated.

Ha ha! People can surprise you. I was a die hard conservative fundamentalist until I just recently revealed that I have lesbian friends who I allow to babysit my children. Looking at other perspectives is healthy. Staying in our own perspective bubbles is very unhealthy.

 

[Dodo_David]

... entire books have been written by some Protestants about how pagan the Catholic Church is and it should be noted that Catholics have no such book about Protestants. My question is why? Isn't simple disagreement enough? What impious desire is it to calumniate anyone who doesn't believe as they do?
Yeah, it's frustrating.

Yes, it is frustrating when one sees a bumper sticker that says "No Catholic Church = No Salvation".

 

[Selene]

Infallibility is not a superpower. Only non Catholics misunderstand and therefore misrepresent the dogma associated with infallibility.

A lot of times they misinterpret infallibility with impeccability.

 

[Dodo_David]

Getting back to the original topic of this thread . . .

I would have to see more evidence than that "interview" in order to be convinced that the current Pope of the Roman Catholic Church is promoting universalism.

 

[michaelvpardo]

And you can see from some of the posts here, especially the OP, that they're not interested in the truth. And if you think it's just us Catholics, they do it to Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses too. My philosophy is simple. If somebody disagrees with what Catholics believe, I'm fine with that. But to distort our beliefs to fit an image they have of us is not becoming of any Christian. We're supposed to be children of light, drawn to the truth and banishing shadows. But entire books have been written by some Protestants about how pagan the Catholic Church is and it should be noted that Catholics have no such book about Protestants. My question is why? Isn't simple disagreement enough? What impious desire is it to calumniate anyone who doesn't believe as they do?
Yeah, it's frustrating.

You might be interested to know that the Free Masons also consider themselves "children of light," and that the founders of the Mormon church and of the Jehovah's witnesses church were both Free Masons as well. Of course, at higher degrees of Free Masonry, the light bearer is called Lucifer by some and Jesus has nothing to do with their faith. If I were you, I wouldn't compare the R.C. to those cults, it really does nothing to defend your church.
If your stand is upon faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, our redeemer and risen King, that should be more than enough for a "protestant" to receive your testimony, but not all "protestants" are born again (or at least I should say not all show any proof of it through the fruit of the Spirit.)
If you believe that God needs you to defend His church, what does that say about your view of Him? And If you don't feel a need to defend your church, why respond to foolish accusations about it or about your Pope?
Everyone here is entitled to their own opinions and their own faith. The Lord will be back soon enough to sort things out and His opinion is the only one that counts anyway. God bless, and have a good day.

 

[Selene]

If you believe that God needs you to defend His church, what does that say about your view of Him? And If you don't feel a need to defend your church, why respond to foolish accusations about it or about your Pope?
Everyone here is entitled to their own opinions and their own faith. The Lord will be back soon enough to sort things out and His opinion is the only one that counts anyway. God bless, and have a good day.

Christ is the one who defends the Church and protects her because she is His Bride. The Church has been standing for over 2000 years, and it remains standing to this day.....thanks be to God. But the Bible does say to answer those who have questions about our faith (1 Peter 3:15). So, if someone has a question about our faith, the best ones who can answer those questions would be a Catholic, not a Protestant. Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but malicious slander is a different story.

 

[Dodo_David]

Christ is the one who defends the Church and protects her because she is His Bride. The Church has been standing for over 2000 years, and it remains standing to this day.....thanks be to God. But the Bible does say to answer those who have questions about our faith (1 Peter 3:15). So, if someone has a question about our faith, the best ones who can answer those questions would be a Catholic, not a Protestant. Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but malicious slander is a different story.

Yes, the universal Church has been standing for roughly 2,000 years. During that time, the universal Church has been divided into subsections, namely Messianic Jews, Oriental Orthodox Christians, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Russian Orthodox Christians, Coptic Christians, Roman Catholic Christians, and Protestant Christians.

If you want to know what members of a subsection believe, then ask them. They have every right to present their side.

 

[Selene]

If you want to know what members of a subsection believe, then ask them. They have every right to present their side.

I agree with this.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Yes, it is frustrating when one sees a bumper sticker that says "No Catholic Church = No Salvation".

I've never seen such a bumper sticker in my life and I can guarantee I drive about 20 times more miles than you do. It's very low brow to take a kook's bumper sticker and castigating it as representing an entire belief system. I think you know better.

 

[Mungo]

I've never seen such a bumper sticker in my life and I can guarantee I drive about 20 times more miles than you do. It's very low brow to take a kook's bumper sticker and castigating it as representing an entire belief system. I think you know better.

I've never seen one either

 

[Brothertom]

Getting back to the original topic of this thread . . .

I would have to see more evidence than that "interview" in order to be convinced that the current Pope of the Roman Catholic Church is promoting universalism.

All men are redeemed, even non-Christians.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/pope-francis-good-atheists_n_3320757.html

Sounds like heresy to me.

 

[JPPT1974]

You are only redeemed in Christ! Plain and simple!

 

[Selene]

All men are redeemed, even non-Christians.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/pope-francis-good-atheists_n_3320757.html

Sounds like heresy to me.

The Bible DID say that Christ ransomed Himself for all.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Christ gift of salvation was to all mankind.....to all people. It was a free gift. But only those who accepted the gift would be welcomed by Him. Those who rejected this gift of salvation will not. It's up to atheist to either accept or reject this free gift of salvation that Christ offered to him/her. This was the good news that Christ told the Apostles to spread to the unbelieving Gentiles. When they heard of this good news......of how Christ gave His life for them (unbelievers and sinners), some of them accepted this gift of salvation. The Pope was correct in offering this good news to the unbelieving atheists so that in time they may also come to believe and accept the free gift of salvation.

 

[Dodo_David]

Yes, it is frustrating when one sees a bumper sticker that says "No Catholic Church = No Salvation".

I've never seen such a bumper sticker in my life and I can guarantee I drive about 20 times more miles than you do. It's very low brow to take a kook's bumper sticker and castigating it as representing an entire belief system. I think you know better.

I've never seen one either

Well, I did see such a bumper sticker on a vehicle in my own local community.

No, I don't believe that it represents the thinking of all Roman Catholic Christians, just as Chick Tracts don't represent the thinking of all Protestant Christians.

Anyway, in regards to the original topic of this thread, I have spoken in defense of Pope Francis.

 

[aspen]

I have learned to never underestimate the idiocy people use to decorate their vehicles with.