The Popular False Justification and False Sanctification View Today.

[Ferris Bueller]

Just believing in faith alone really hard is not going to do anything if you don’t decide to act out in faith. Noah could have believed God’s instructions really hard for hours but if he did not decide to get off his butt and build the Ark, he would have perished along with everyone else.

If Noah did not decide to get off his butt and build the Ark we would have no choice but to conclude that he did not choose to believe and receive God's warning about the impending judgment of the earth:

"7By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in godly fear built an ark to save his family." Hebrews 11:7​

As you can see, the Bible tells us that it is "by faith" that he built the ark. The fact that he built the ark shows us he believed and received God's warning of impending judgment. And it is not his work that made him righteous. The faith that built the ark did that:

"By faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith." Hebrews 11:7​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He is not referring to the secondary aspect of salvation in the Sanctification of the Spirit like he did in 2 Thessalonians 2:13

Walking in the righteousness you already have received from God through your faith in Christ does not solicit the righteousness from God you already have. Holy behavior will only save you at the judgment in the sense that it is the evidence of your faith in God and the righteousness you received from Him through that faith.

 

[mailmandan]

If Noah did not decide to get off his butt and build the Ark we would have no choice but to conclude that he did not choose to believe and receive God's warning about the impending judgment of the earth:

"7By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in godly fear built an ark to save his family." Hebrews 11:7​

As you can see, the Bible tells us that it is "by faith" that he built the ark. The fact that he built the ark shows us he believed and received God's warning of impending judgment. And it is not his work that made him righteous. The faith that built the ark did that:

"By faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith." Hebrews 11:7​

Amen! Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8) was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5) and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated that Noah believed and received God's warning about the impending judgment of the earth and it also saved Noah and his family (physically) from drowning. (Hebrews 11:7)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I just watched a good video on how this Christian who was a part of the Once Saved Always Saved deception was told that if he believed hard enough (i.e. faith), then he would overcome particular sins in his life.

Believe what? That's the key.
By faith we will see that sin does not have dominion over us. This is what Romans 6 is all about.

 

[Robert Gwin]

"Many are called..." Matthew 22:14​

Does this have anything to do with what you're talking about?

Sadly although the nation of Israel were God's people, and were called first to fill those positions, only a few from among fleshly Israel make up the Israel of God. That verse was speaking of them Ferris.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Why does this matter?
I find it to be a meaningless contentious argument. What matters is that you are standing on the right at the judgment, not the left.

I fully agree Ferris, and like you said it has nothing to do with Salvation sir, therefore of little importance. But it is in fact a Bible topic, and God put it in there for a reason, so at some point in our growth we would want to examine the evidence to grow to maturity. If one is speaking about God torturing people in hell, then they have a serious problem that will keep them from salvation, at that point it will be necessary to learn what it is, as God will not allow those to stand on His right side at the judgment who slander His name.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Demons do not believe and trust in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. That faith - the faith that saves - is evidenced by obedience. Obedience doesn't make faith salvific. Works show it to be salvific.

They know it sir, they are vastly superior in knowledge about God, we aren't a pimple on their backside. I gave you the evidence, you already know it and display your works here regularly, so it is best to teach what is required, as we are to teach others to observe all the things Jesus commanded, and work is one of those things.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If one is speaking about God torturing people in hell, then they have a serious problem that will keep them from salvation

It didn't keep me from salvation.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

at that point it will be necessary to learn what it is, as God will not allow those to stand on His right side at the judgment who slander His name.

I think you're exaggerating the import of the topic. Nobody will be standing on the left of Christ at the judgment because they thought one way or another about what the essence of hell fire is.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

it is best to teach what is required, as we are to teach others to observe all the things Jesus commanded, and work is one of those things.

No one disagrees with this.
What works do not do is solicit the righteousness that comes from God that one receives entirely by faith in the forgiveness of God. That is where there is contention about works.

 

[Charlie24]

Acts of the Apostles 18:28 NIV
“For he vigorously refuted his Jewish opponents in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah.”



I perfectly know what you believe, but I find it to be immoral.



I don’t believe that is the case. You said you will remain a sinner saved by God’s grace.



Discussing God’s Word is never a waste of time.

Have you stopped sinning,BH?

My life whether I am living like the 144,000 or not does undo what the Bible says. Also, the past is the past, and the future is not yet. All we have now is the present. Am I sinning right now? No. Do I plan to sin again? No.

Anyways, the Bible teaches verses like Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, but you don't seem to believe them. It's a matter of faith for you to believe in them, but you choose to walk by sight (your own experience), and not by faith in God's Word. Remember, only eight people made it on the Ark, and Noah was said to be a preacher of righteousness. So this means that the majority view was not the correct one.

One of the first things the Bible records of Noah when exited the Ark, was that he planted a vineyard, made wine, and got drunk. We know how that turned out.

There's not a single person on this earth who does not sin from time to time. I would agree that there are some who don't practice sin, meaning they have no known sin in their life. But they still commit sin from time to time.

Why? Because we are fallen man and prone to sin! If we could stop sinning altogether, we could earn our own righteousness. If that was the case, there was no need for Christ to be our sacrifice, those who reach sinless perfection would enter into heaven and those who don't would receive the alternative.

But that's not the case, BH! We are all continuing sinners whether we will admit it or not, fallen man in need of God's Grace.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Have you stopped sinning,BH?


One of the first things the Bible records of Noah when exited the Ark, was that he planted a vineyard, made wine, and got drunk. We know how that turned out.

There's not a single person on this earth who does not sin from time to time. I would agree that there are some who don't practice sin, meaning they have no known sin in their life. But they still commit sin from time to time.

Why? Because we are fallen man and prone to sin! If we could stop sinning altogether, we could earn our own righteousness. If that was the case, there was no need for Christ to be our sacrifice, those who reach sinless perfection would enter into heaven and those who don't would receive the alternative.

But that's not the case, BH! We are all continuing sinners whether we will admit it or not, fallen man in need of God's Grace.

Do you believe Galatians 5:24, 2 Corinthians 7:1, 1 Peter 4:1-2? I take that as a… “No” “You don't’ believe those verses.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Believe what? That's the key.

He was believing in the finished work of the cross for hours. It did not help him.
But when he learned that the Bible requires us to simply act out in our faith, and he took action in doing things in his faith instead, that is when the power of God helped him to overcome sin. This is a biblical concept. Galatians 5:16 is just one verse that teaches this for starters.

Believing on Jesus for salvation or believing on the finished work of the cross will not help you if you sit and do nothing and you refuse to take action in your faith for God.

By faith we will see that sin does not have dominion over us. This is what Romans 6 is all about.

No. Romans 6 talks about being in the likeness of Christ’s death means one is freed from sin (Whereby walks in the likeness of His resurrection).

Romans 6:22
“But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”

Romans 6:6-7
“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

Dead to what?

Dead to themselves in regards to sin.

This is what it means when Jesus said deny yourself when he referred to picking up your cross.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Walking in the righteousness you already have received from God through your faith in Christ does not solicit the righteousness from God you already have. Holy behavior will only save you at the judgment in the sense that it is the evidence of your faith in God and the righteousness you received from Him through that faith.

Not so. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 plainly says that God has chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth. This is in context to holy living because of the context. Verse 12 gives us the polar opposite truth. It says that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Believed not the truth (verse 12), vs. belief of the truth (verse 13).
Pleasure in unrighteousness (verse 12), vs. sanctification of the Spirit (which would be holy living) (verse 13).

Verses 16-17 also talk about faith and works, as well (in context).

Romans 8:13 gives us a conditional statement. Paul says to believers… if they all live after the flesh, they will die, and if they all put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, they will live (live eternally).

Paul knows everybody dies, and so Paul is talking about spiritual death vs. spiritual life.
Paul does not tell his readers… “Hey, if you muster up enough faith in the finished work of the cross… you will automatically obey God.”
That’s simply not what he said.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If Noah did not decide to get off his butt and build the Ark we would have no choice but to conclude that he did not choose to believe and receive God's warning about the impending judgment of the earth:

"7By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in godly fear built an ark to save his family." Hebrews 11:7​

As you can see, the Bible tells us that it is "by faith" that he built the ark.

That’s because faith has two sides to it. One side of faith is believing and the other side of the coin of faith is the work of faith or by deciding to take action to allow God to do the good work through you.

The fact that he built the ark shows us he believed and received God's warning of impending judgment. And it is not his work that made him righteous. The faith that built the ark did that:

"By faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith." Hebrews 11:7​

No. Peter talks about how the global flood was an example to all who live ungodly and not just because they did not have faith alone (See: 2 Peter 2:4-6). Again, you are employing eisegesis and not exegesis. You are enforcing your parroted Protestant religion upon the Bible. Just read the Bible, and believe it plainly, and stop believing Protestant religious sayings that have blinded you from believing the Bible. For there is no Scriptural support for your claims. You are reading things into the Bible to say something that it simply does not say.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Not so. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 plainly says that God has chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth. This is in context to holy living because of the context.

How does living holy secure for me the righteousness that is from God that I already have by faith all by itself?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Walking in the righteousness you already have received from God through your faith in Christ does not solicit the righteousness from God you already have. Holy behavior will only save you at the judgment in the sense that it is the evidence of your faith in God and the righteousness you received from Him through that faith.

Read 2 Thessalonians 2:13 several times and also look at the context. Don’t try to read something into the text that is not there. Just read it as it is written and believe it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How does living holy secure for me the righteousness that is from God that I already have by faith all by itself?

Because living holy is also a part of the faith. Everything in your Bible is a part of the faith. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Ferris Bueller

For do you have to believe all of the Bible by faith?
Did not God give us holy instructions to obey Him in the New Testament?
Yes, or no?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Have you stopped sinning,BH?


One of the first things the Bible records of Noah when exited the Ark, was that he planted a vineyard, made wine, and got drunk. We know how that turned out.

There's not a single person on this earth who does not sin from time to time. I would agree that there are some who don't practice sin, meaning they have no known sin in their life. But they still commit sin from time to time.

Why? Because we are fallen man and prone to sin! If we could stop sinning altogether, we could earn our own righteousness. If that was the case, there was no need for Christ to be our sacrifice, those who reach sinless perfection would enter into heaven and those who don't would receive the alternative.

But that's not the case, BH! We are all continuing sinners whether we will admit it or not, fallen man in need of God's Grace.

Have you stopped sinning Charlie? If not, then what sins are you justifying under God’s grace as a license for immorality? (Jude 1:4).
Please tell us. Also, do you not know that Titus 2:11-12 says that God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world? Seeing that you are trying to convince believers to sin instead of trying to obey God, this means you truly don’t believe Titus 2:11-12 (including many other verses).