The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Taken]

If Jesus comes and first gathers Israel, and then gathers the nations to be judged according as He said, the church has to already be gone from the earth when the great tribulation begins.

Jesus does NOT gather Israel first.
The majority of Israel REJECTED, and to this day REJECT, Jesus is the Christ Messiah.
* They are the primary ones, to suffer the first portion of the Tribulation.
* AREA per LAND, during the Tribulation is bit by bit, and then increases covering more and more LAND mass.
* The LAND promised to ISRAEL, through Gods promise to Abraham and heirs, (whether occupied solely by ISRAELITES), is of no matter. Gods Wrath and Tribulation is upon the LAND, and by default affects the inhabitants upon the land.
* ISRAEL’s promised Land, is Subject to the FIRST phase of the Great Tribulation...
* All people occupying the Land, SHALL be subject to the Destruction upon the land...........EFFECTED BY...... the WRATH of the LAMB, upon those who rejected the Lamb of God
* ISRAELITES are “warned” to flee, to Mt ZION.

Jesus the teacher is the Lord.
He descends from His Heavenly Place, TO the clouds Above the Earth.
The Archangel, Michael, the Lords Servant, notifies the prepared bride her groom is coming.
The prepared bride stands prepared to be whisked away from her fathers house to the grooms father’s house, that is made ready for the wedding banquet, the guests and the grooms father to over see the marriage contract and the unveiling of the bride during the wedding ceremony.

The event IS parallel to a Scripturally revealed historical Jewish wedding.
The surprise is:
The majority of the guests are ISRAEL.
The majority of the “brides” are Gentiles.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ronald D Milam]

The "House of Israel" comprise ten of the twelve tribes, and they were scattered long ago. We know them today as the Christian nations of the Americas, Western Europe, and wherever else they migrated to, and now exist. The book of Hosea details this fact for us.

Israel and Judah are separate houses that will not be joined back together until the return of Christ
All of Israel are not just Jew's

Those old Herbert Armstrong teachings are error. The bible proves it vit the scriptures.

There are two prophetic utterings in Ezekiel 37, one is about the Dead Men's Bones being brought back to life, the other is God telling Ezekiel that He is going to make the TWO STICKS into ONE STICK, God never OK'ed a divided nation, men did that. So, since the Northern Kingdoms were wicked God sent them off unto far away lands permanently, but every tribe had peoples (SEED) living in Judah and Jerusalem. Thus there were NEVER any lost tribes, that is a pure fable but forth by Armstrong, who was a false teacher.

God turned the TWO nations into ONE NATION. Now did they all eventually become known as Jews? Yes, because they all lived in Judah/Jerusalem, just like Italians who moved to New York 100 years ago are now called New Yorkers or Americans !! Thus when they were toted off they were toted off from Judah, thus they were all Jews but all 12 Tribes were still living in Judah, as God says he has saved himself 7000. Thus ether God has to be lying, or he brought the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel back unto Israel starting in 1948, which means ALL 12 of the Tribes, including the Tribe of Dan, but Dan can not be named, he was Wicked and is probably going to be in hell after his Judgment, thus Dan can not be used, just like Judas can't be used as a Disciple in New Jerusalem on the pillars or gates, Paul replaced Judas.

Ezekiel 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

Does Christ have two Brides ,the Church and Israel ?

Look up the Old Testament verses, who married Israel? God the Father. In Revelation 14:1 whose name is STAMPED on the 144,000's (3-5 million Jews who are really ALL Israel) Head? SEE BELOW:

Rev. 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Jacob had TWO BRIDES, the preferred one Rachel, and Leah.

Its a known fact that God the Father married Israel long ago.

One of the most dangerous effects of the extremely popular Pre-Trib theory is that it makes Christians think that they do not have to study prophecy about the Time of the End and Christ’s return – because they won’t be here. They’ll be hanging out with Christ in heaven during Daniel’s 70th ‘seven’ and the Great Tribulation.

This is untrue, we want to learn because we actually hear the spirits voice on the end times, those who don't understanding the timing of the Rapture have ZERO CHANCE of understanding End Time Eschatology.

And we Christian need to WARN those who are being taught in error, its going to make the kids think like this:

"Well, I can sow my oats now, because we have to go through the Tribulation Period anyway, so why worry", then after the Rapture, some of these weak people having been told that and now having to face the soon to come Anti-Christ will not be able to come unto Christ because they needed.

 

[Christ4Me]

Thank you for sharing, but the Olivet Discourse did not end in Matthew 24th chapter, but at the end of Matthew 25th chapter.

What is being overlooked is that Jesus is answering 3 different questions put to Him by His disciples and He was not answering those 3 questions in order.

Matthew 24:1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

#1. Tell us, when shall these things be? in reference to when the destruction of the Temple will take place.

#2. and what shall be the sign of thy coming, in reference to His appearing as the Bridegroom, not as His coming as the King of kings.

#3. and of the end of the world? in reference to when the way of this world shall cease and find itself in the great tribulation under the NWO.

Compare the two scriptural references here to see the truth.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

This is the tribulation we are living in these latter days where faith is hard to find and apostasy abounds. It is enduring to this end that believers are called to be ready for the Bridegroom when He appears as found abiding in Him as well as being willing to go is about now.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Now compare that with Revelation below on how that gospel is to be preached unto all nations as this will be done by that first angel after the rapture event in setting up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth.

Revelation 14:1-5 is testifying of the rapture event of how 144,000 virgin men who do not lie, were redeemed from the earth in making up His personal choir that follows Him around wherever He goes. They are not the only ones raptured from the earth, but just testifying to who made up His personal choir that was out of the raptured.

Then you have that first angel spreading the gospel every where before that end comes where a third of the earth is burned up for which the second angel announces the destruction of Babylon by it. And then the third angel warns everyone of the consequence for taking the mark of the beast to buy & sell to survive in the coming NWO for the rest of the world so no one has an excuse about not knowing the gospel nor the consequence for taking the mark which is the lake of fire to burn for ever and ever night & day.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. 8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Verses 12 is for believers now to avoid being left behind for any unrepentant iniquity as they will die with their works of iniquity following them into the dust.

That is why you still have saints in fallen Babylon as described at the end of Revelation 18th chapter and why the voice of the bride & bridegroom is heard no more in her because the Bridegroom has come and gone, excommunicating saints for not being ready to go.

 

[Christ4Me]

How many Christians throughout history have been brutally killed by the sword and been starved to death ,did Christ not tell us to fear not those who can kill the flesh.
How and why do you all get to escape ,what makes you special ?Are you afraid of death?

See post #43 at this link about how a lot of saints were not ready for the Bridegroom when He had come for why there will be saints left behind. The Pre-Trib Rapture

Also the famine of the end times is not for bread and water

Right since there is a war on the saints to kill them with the sword & hunger which will be far worse than what has occurred in past history to now.

 

[Taken]

If the Revelation is prophetic narrative, and when it says this happens and then that happens, that's the way it is, the church must be gone before any of the trumpets and bowls.
Much love!

Seals 1-4 being opened reveal Power given to the anti-Christ.
By opening of Seal 5 we are informed many are martyred, killed for their belief in the Word of God.
By Seal 6 opening, men on the earth are acknowledging the great Tribulation is in effect, and the men, AGAINST the Lamb of God are suffering the WRATH of the Lamb of God.

Rev 6
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

[12] And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[marks]

We know from Revelation 20:4-5, that the only dead in Christ, who will be raised when Jesus Returns; will be those who - for the sake of God's word and their witness to Jesus, had been beheaded....during the 3 1/2 year period of world Satanic control.
The rest of the dead await the GWT Judgment, after the thousand years have ended.

As for a 'rapture', that 'harparzo' is not to heaven, but to where Jesus is; in the clouds and then in Jerusalem. Acts 1:11, Zechariah 14:3
A horizontal transportation, on the Day Jesus comes down from heaven to commence His Millennium reign.

The Seventh Trumpet; Revelation 10:7 and Revelation 11:15-19; says nothing about humans going to heaven, or anywhere at that time.
Thinking the Bible means something that it doesn't actually say; is a bad mistake and leads to high expectations, that may cause a loss of faith as dramatic events happen.

There are a lot of people struggling with their faith today as they are being told that the God Who loves them will hand them over to Satan during an extremely evil time. People tell them this having failed to rightly divide the Scriptures, and conclude that whatever happens with Israel must be for the gentiles, and visa-versa, but that's not so, the Bible shows this. The two gatherings, and the judgment when Jesus returns are two of the clearest evidences of this, but I find so many people will deny they mean what they say rather than to allow this distinction.

When we deny the distinction between the church and Israel, it leaves Christians trying to read the Bible, but thinking that they can't just believe what it says, because that just doesn't work. You cannot accept straightforward statements like in these prophesies unless you understand, the church is the church, and Israel is Israel, and God has plans for each that are not the same.

I see that damage done now, and lots.

I agree with @Enoch111 , I'm not expecting to change anyone's mind in this thread, but I hope to point to inconsistencies were some have learned understand the Bible to mean things that are different from what it says.

If we accept what it says, this is what it says.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Correct. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture, or more precisely Resurrection/Rapture is the true Bible doctrine. And all attacks against it are ultimately from the devil, who hates this truth. At the same time it is a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME to try and convince the naysayers and scoffers.

Let's just call it it a labor of love, and I'm a patient man.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Well, I don't think this is true per se, now if you are saying God is giving us CODES (like the Woman in Rev. 12) which is not symbolic,

In this example the Bible both identifies that the woman is a symbol, "A great sign", just like the red dragon. The Bible not only tells us when something is a symbol, but it will also tell us what that symbol means.

The point I like to make about this is, unless someone can show in the Bible that the Bible itself declares something a symbol, and what that symbol means, then their interpretation lacks Scriptural authority.

I agree, the Rapture is Pre Trib, BUT.......The 144,000 is a CODE just like the 10 Virgins were.

I've kind of read over your calculations after this part, but you kind of lose me there. God saved 7,000 men, let me ask you, if God had in fact taken 7,000 actual men and made them safe, How would He say that?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Pre-Tribulation Escape, IS EXCLUSIVE, called by the name RAPTURE, and applies exclusively to MEN “IN” Christ, they also called “members of Christ’s Church”.

Pre-Tribulation ... aka, the RAPTURE;
expressly “applies” to the gathering together of:
Physically Living, Physically Dead, mankind;
Converted “IN” Christ, members OF Christ’ Church.... PERIOD.

Christ’s Church...is NOT DEFINED by man made terms, names of buildings, names of religious organizations....
* Christ’s Church...IS DEFINED, exclusively AS, Christ’s Church, and THAT CHURCH, is DEFINED, exclusively AS, BEING “WITHIN” converted men.

Glory to God,
Taken

Exactly! We have to allow the Bible itself to identify for us of whom it speaks. The living, and the dead, in Christ.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The RAPTURE, (BEFORE tribulation of lifting above the face of the earth) is exclusive to Christ’s Church.

The 144,000 AND A LAMB....are exclusively 12,000 VIRGIN Tribesmen of each of the Twelve Tribes of ISRAEL, who were RESERVED, set aside, sanctified, out of the 12 Tribes....WHO ARE SEALED with the KING Lord Gods Amighty’s SEAL...WHO shall be “SENT” to Mt ZION (Sion)... DURING THE Tribulation ...
* Effected....as the 5th SEAL is opened and the 6th SEAL is about to be opened.

The 144,000 Tribesmen AND A LAMB....are expressly FOR the Earthly living TRIBES of ISRAEL to HEAR the Gospel of Jesus Christ, FROM their own kinsmen; ISRAEL—-> the 144,000
It is exclusive for ISRAEL’S SALVATION, forgiveness for rejecting Christ Jesus, saving of their souls, quickening of their spirits..........BEFORE they are Physically bodily killed, (martyred for their belief)...BY the armies of the Prince of darkness, ruling the world, ie Satan.
* their saved souls, quickened spirits shall rise up to Heaven.
* their body’s shall be risen, glorified, after the 1,000 year reign of Christ Jesus.

Glory to God,
Taken

Matthew 10:21-28 LITV
21) But brother will betray brother to death, and the father his child. And children will rise up against parents and will put them to death.
22) And you will be hated by all on account of My name, but the one enduring to the end shall be kept safe.
23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For truly I say to you, In no way will you have finished the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.
24) A disciple is not above the teacher, nor a slave above his lord.
25) It is enough for the disciple to become as his teacher, and the slave as his lord. If they called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more those of his household?
26) Therefore, you should not fear them, for nothing is covered which will not be uncovered; and hidden, which will not be made known.
27) What I say to you in the darkness, speak in the light. And what you hear in the ear, proclaim on the housetops.
28) And you should not fear the ones killing the body, but not being able to kill the soul. But rather fear Him being able to destroy both soul and body in Hell.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Rev 6
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

When were they slain?

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Thank you for sharing, but the Olivet Discourse did not end in Matthew 24th chapter, but at the end of Matthew 25th chapter.

What is being overlooked is that Jesus is answering 3 different questions put to Him by His disciples and He was not answering those 3 questions in order.

Matthew 24:1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

#1. Tell us, when shall these things be? in reference to when the destruction of the Temple will take place.

#2. and what shall be the sign of thy coming, in reference to His appearing as the Bridegroom, not as His coming as the King of kings.

#3. and of the end of the world? in reference to when the way of this world shall cease and find itself in the great tribulation under the NWO.

So You are saying the abomination of desolation and the great tribulation have already occurred when the physical temple was destroyed in 70 AD (Matthew 24:15ff)? I Just want to understand what you are saying here. In other words, this is how you resolve the Olivet discourse problem.

Also, what is the difference between his coming as the bride groom and His coming as the king of kings? I think you are referring to the day of Christ vs. the day of the LORD here which I happen to agree with and do account for in my timeline.

Just so you know, although I am pre-wrather, like the the presenters of the video, I do not agree with their timeline. I have the great tribulation as being the first half of the final week. I Also believe the first 5 seals are already opened and we are merely awaiting the sixth seal, and the number of the saints to be killed to be fulfilled. I would be more than happy to discuss my views and why i Hold them.

What bothers me is when people like @Enoch111 says any other view is of the devil, this sort of attitude thwarts discussion and fellowship and coming to a better understanding. I personally have gone from a pre tribber to a pre wrather, so I know most of the arguments for and against both views. My Hope is that the pretribbers are right, but deep down I think they are in for a great disappointment.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Why not believe God's Word go up in the rapture and miss the great tribulation??
The great tribulation is God's wrath against this sinful God rejecting world not His church(born-again believers)
1 Thessalonians 5:9
“For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,”
Luke 21:36
Jesus says===“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

 

[Mantis]

This whole pre-trib rapture is one doctrine that I am not sure about. About the time I am convinced it is false doctrine, something usually comes up that makes me question that assumption. This happens time and time again. I am now at the point where I will not take a position on the timing of the rapture. There is too much confusion and contradicting view points. I think we just need to trust that we will be protected by God during the tribulation however it comes to be. We are not appointed to wrath.

 

[Taken]

Matthew 10:21-28 LITV
21) But brother will betray brother to death, and the father his child. And children will rise up against parents and will put them to death.
22) And you will be hated by all on account of My name, but the one enduring to the end shall be kept safe.
23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For truly I say to you, In no way will you have finished the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.
24) A disciple is not above the teacher, nor a slave above his lord.
25) It is enough for the disciple to become as his teacher, and the slave as his lord. If they called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more those of his household?
26) Therefore, you should not fear them, for nothing is covered which will not be uncovered; and hidden, which will not be made known.
27) What I say to you in the darkness, speak in the light. And what you hear in the ear, proclaim on the housetops.
28) And you should not fear the ones killing the body, but not being able to kill the soul. But rather fear Him being able to destroy both soul and body in Hell.

Much love!

Speaking of SIGNS....a prelude....already in effect, on steroids (ie) exponentially increasing before our eyes.

 

[Davy]

When I consider the Rapture of the Church, and when it might occur, I find a couple of things seem to hold true.

When I consider the Rapture of the Church, and when it might occur, I find a couple of things seem to hold true.

Right there, you have already spoken against The Word of God, because there IS... existing Bible Scripture that gives direct statements showing the timing when Jesus will return and gather His faithful Church...

Jesus speaking to His Church while upon the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

The Mark 13:24-27 Scripture is another Bible Witness to the same events Jesus said above.

Thus those on a false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory from men are without excuse.

 

[marks]

All will be judged at the same time ,which is after the millennium

Matthew 25:31-33 LITV
31) But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32) And before Him shall be gathered all the nations; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33) And indeed He will set the sheep off His right, but the goats off the left hand.

This gathering and judgment occurs when Jesus returns in glory.

Matthew 24:29-30 LITV
29) And immediately after the affliction of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30) And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the land will wail. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory.

Jesus comes in glory immediated following the great tribulation of those days.

Why are you separating Israel from the Church are we not ALL one body with Christ as the Head?

Romans 11:25-27 LITV
25) For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be wise within yourselves, that hardness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the nations comes in;
26) and so all Israel will be saved, even as it has been written, "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
27) And this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins." Isa. 59:20, 21

Not all of Isreal is yet saved. Those who are, are one with the gentiles in Christ. We aren't "Christian Jews and Gentiles", we are just "Christians". Some are Jewish, and some are Russian, and some are American, according to the flesh . . .

2 Corinthians 5:16 LITV
16) So as we now know no one according to flesh, but even if we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we no longer know Him so.

Really don't know where you get the 144,000 being only men ,

Revelation 7:3-8 LITV
3) Do not harm the earth, nor the sea, nor the trees, until we seal the slaves of our God on their foreheads.
4) And I heard the number of those having been sealed: one hundred forty four thousands, having been sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5) Out of the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand having been sealed. Out of the tribe of Reuben, twelve thousand having been sealed.

One reason being that these words are all written in masculine gender, where neuter gender would indicate men and women both.

Revelation 14:4 LITV
4) These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones following the Lamb wherever He may go. These were redeemed from among men as a firstfruit to God and to the Lamb.

This understanding is likewise carried forward in the above passage.

also when one is saved they become grafted into Israel whom is and has always been the Church.

Not all Israel is yet saved, but the church by definition is.

There's a great deception about to come and it's gonna be the greatest in the history of mankind ,and that's satan pretending to be Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-5 KJV
3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

This is how the Bible speaks of it. Are you saying that you think Satan will "fake a rapture of the church"?

Either you know this before it happens or God will send you that strong delusion and you will believe the lie.

The Bible tells us something a little different on this point,

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 KJV
10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

The great tribulation is God's wrath against this sinful God rejecting world not His church

The Great tribulation is the wrath of Satan against the saints who are called to endure.

 

[marks]

Really don't know why any one would call the original 12 disciples all men either? If all 144k had their names printed out 1900 years ago, would that give away who the 144k would actually be? If you do not think there will literally be 144k people to be the disciples of Jesus at the Second Coming, why did John even mention it? Revelation 14:

"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins."

I guess there could be woman who would not be defiled by other women, but is this literal or symbolic? Are you saying some of these could be virgin women not defiled by other women? How does that make sense if God condemns same sex unions? The context of "not defiled by women" is either sexist or implies they are all males.

Gender forms of the words tell us these things.


This "m" is for masculine. Pronouns show the gender. If "these" are men, the word will be masculine gender. If women, feminine gender. And if a mixed group, neuter gender.

Much love!

 

[marks]

When you actually start putting two and two together you will see when the rapture takes place...

Yes, that's what I've done. Again, there is no direct statement of timing, only the process of elimination. Once one sees that none of the other views are possible, then one can see that pre-trib is the only remaining possibility.

As a person with a pre-wrath view, you of necessity will need to overlook timing words in the Revelation, and/or need to overlook exclusivity language, such as "the servants of God were sealed in their foreheads". There are a number of ways this part of Scripture cannot be accepted at face value and still be reconcilable to a pre-wrath rapture view.

Much love!