The Pre-Trib Rapture

[The Light]

Well pre-wrath means giving the devil more credit than his due. And he loves that. The entire 70th week of Daniel is under God's wrath, and Satan is relatively a "bit-player" (Rev 11-13).

The entire 70th week of Daniel is not under Gods wrath. The 70th week are the seals and the wrath of God does not begin until the 6th seal.

 

[covenantee]

Seventh Day Adventist follow the Non-Prophetess in Ellen G. White and her many false teachings and claims of 2,000 dreams and visions given by God, the investigative judgement and Sunday observance being the mark of the beast, are just a few of these teachings

The reformers observed Sunday, yes Ellen G. White taught that such have received the mark of the beast as seen below

Ellen White, Review and Herald, July 13, 1897, wrote: “when you obey the decree that commands you to cease from labor on Sunday and worship God, . . . You consent to receive the mark of the beast."

If you prefer to promote the apostate papism of dispensational futurism, there are forums dedicated to that.

 

[marks]

So, please tell me the identity of the beasts then if they "are in fact interpreted in the Bible for us".

First, lets reach agreement on whether they are. Do you not think so?

Much love!

 

[marks]

This is a ridiculous argument. So, should we believe that the beast with seven heads and ten horns is a literal beast with seven literal heads and ten literal horns because that's what the words say? Come on. Give me a break.

The thing is . . . your whole derisive attitude really doesn't inspire me to continue our discussion. If you think it's so ridiculous . . . move on.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

Protestant Historicism arose in the SIXTEENTH CENTURY, got it? Three hundred plus years before the Great Religious Awakening, EGW, the Millerite movement, and the organization of the SDA church in the 1860s. Let's go back to the 16th century, shall we?

What do you think about the fact there was no record of Jesuit Futurism anywhere in existence by the time Luther and company had devastated the Roman Catholic church with their preaching of Protestant Historicism and its "Twin Pillars of the Reformation"?
1) salvation by grace through faith alone
2) the Papacy is the Antichrist of Bible prophecy

What do you think about the fact that after decades of the preaching of Protestant Historicism, so many Catholics threw out their rosary beads and became Protestants that the Papacy organized a Counter-Reformation whose sole purpose was to destroy the Protestant Reformation?

What do you think about the fact that during this Counter-Reformation the Pope commissioned the Jesuit Order to find a Biblical alternative to Protestant Historicism and the result was both Jesuit Preterism by Jesuit Alcazar and Jesuit Futurism by Jesuit Ribera?

What do you think about the fact that for over 300+ years, the Protestant Reformers were too Biblically literate and intelligent to be seduced by false Jesuit ideas and continued to preach Protestant Historicism universally, in every church, every Bible college, every gathering, in every part of the entire Protestant world?

What do you think about the fact that both Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism were forced underground and were forgotten during that 300+ years of Protestant Historicism domination which continued to spread the light of truth and lead many more Catholics out of the spiritual darkness of Roman Catholicism?

What do you think about the fact that not until the 19th century (when the Protestant Reformation slowed down due to a massive cut back in Papal persecution against Protestantism) did stupid, ignorant, braindead, moronic, complacent, Stockholm Syndrome-suffering, amnesia-suffering "Protestants" begin to resurrect these disgusting, asinine, unBiblical, inconsistent, contradictory Jesuit Futurist and Preterist lies of the Papacy and incorporate them into the Protestant church, and now "protestants" who are no longer protesting defend to the death these same Jesuit lies?

Let's talk about that, shall we?

You follow the teachings of Ellen G. White and 7th Day Adventism

 

[Truth7t7]

The thing is . . . your whole derisive attitude really doesn't inspire me to continue our discussion. If you think it's so ridiculous . . . move on.

Much love!

He's not derisive, your eschatology is unrealistic, and he used the dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns As clear explanation, against your unrealistic claims that everything is literal

 

[Timtofly]

Protestant Historicism arose in the SIXTEENTH CENTURY, got it? Three hundred plus years before the Great Religious Awakening, EGW, the Millerite movement, and the organization of the SDA church in the 1860s. Let's go back to the 16th century, shall we?

What do you think about the fact there was no record of Jesuit Futurism anywhere in existence by the time Luther and company had devastated the Roman Catholic church with their preaching of Protestant Historicism and its "Twin Pillars of the Reformation"?
1) salvation by grace through faith alone
2) the Papacy is the Antichrist of Bible prophecy

What do you think about the fact that after decades of the preaching of Protestant Historicism, so many Catholics threw out their rosary beads and became Protestants that the Papacy organized a Counter-Reformation whose sole purpose was to destroy the Protestant Reformation?

What do you think about the fact that during this Counter-Reformation the Pope commissioned the Jesuit Order to find a Biblical alternative to Protestant Historicism and the result was both Jesuit Preterism by Jesuit Alcazar and Jesuit Futurism by Jesuit Ribera?

What do you think about the fact that for over 300+ years, the Protestant Reformers were too Biblically literate and intelligent to be seduced by false Jesuit ideas and continued to preach Protestant Historicism universally, in every church, every Bible college, every gathering, in every part of the entire Protestant world?

What do you think about the fact that both Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism were forced underground and were forgotten during that 300+ years of Protestant Historicism domination which continued to spread the light of truth and lead many more Catholics out of the spiritual darkness of Roman Catholicism?

What do you think about the fact that not until the 19th century (when the Protestant Reformation slowed down due to a massive cut back in Papal persecution against Protestantism) did stupid, ignorant, braindead, moronic, complacent, Stockholm Syndrome-suffering, amnesia-suffering "Protestants" begin to resurrect these disgusting, asinine, unBiblical, inconsistent, contradictory Jesuit Futurist and Preterist lies of the Papacy and incorporate them into the Protestant church, and now "protestants" who are no longer protesting defend to the death these same Jesuit lies?

Let's talk about that, shall we?

Some of us can read the Bible. We don't need theology let alone bad theology to dictate what we can read for ourselves. If the conclusions happen to go against human theology, then it is one's human theology in error and not what the Scriptures state.

Throwing around labels means one is too lazy to actually participate in a discussion of God's Word. It is only rabbit trails on why dead people got it all wrong. You all can talk about dead people, but some of us just like discussing God's Word.

 

[Truth7t7]

If you prefer to promote the apostate papism of dispensational futurism, there are forums dedicated to that.

The catholic church isn't the whore mystery Babylon, and the papacy isn't the beast of Revelation 13

Jerusalem is the whore Mystery Babylon, and the "Future" Antichrist/Beast will be a Jew who is a King/Ruler of Hebrew Decent

 

[covenantee]

The catholic church isn't the whore mystery Babylon, and the papacy isn't the beast of Revelation 13

Jerusalem is the whore Mystery Babylon, and the "Future" Antichrist/Beast will be a Jew who is a King/Ruler of Hebrew Decent

I'll take the prophetic wisdom and insight that God gave the Reformers, over the counterfeit apostasized fantasies and fallacies of dispensational futurism.

Every time.

 

[marks]

He's not derisive, your eschatology is unrealistic, and he used the dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns As clear explanation, against your unrealistic claims that everything is literal

You must not be reading my posts either . . .

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

The entire 70th week of Daniel is not under Gods wrath. The 70th week are the seals and the wrath of God does not begin until the 6th seal.

That is of course your opinion, but the book of Revelation says something else.

 

[Truth7t7]

I'll take the prophetic wisdom and insight that God gave the Reformers, over the counterfeit apostasized fantasies and fallacies of dispensational futurism.

Every time.

I don't follow dispensationalism or it's teachers, a pre-trib rapture and millennial kingdom on this earth is a fabricated fairy tale of man

 

[Truth7t7]

You must not be reading my posts either . . .

Much love!

I read your posting, you deny simple elementary scripture, to maintain your teachings and belief, my opinion

 

[marks]

I read your posting, you deny simple elementary scripture, to maintain your teachings and belief, my opinion

Then you are reading without understanding, since your comments are moot by what I've written. I've never claimed everything is literal, and I've made very specific statements about what is or may be symbolic.

If the Bible does not present something as a symbol, then if you call something a symbol, that's all that is happening. Someone is calling something in the Bible a symbol. It's a man's word, but not God's Word.

And if the Bible does not present the meaning of the symbols it uses, then if you give a meaning, that's all it is, the meaning of something as conjectured by a man. Man's word, not God's Word.

Unless the Bible says something is a symbol, and gives the meaning of the symbol, then symbolic interpretations lack Scriptural authority. This is axiomatic. If the Bible doesn't say it, then the Bible doesn't say it.

The fact is, many people seem fond of calling things symbols, and then telling you what it means, as a way to negate what is actually written, because they cannot reconcile the passage to their view.

What better way to deny dispensationalism than to deny the prophecies that show it? No, that's not a literal 144,000 Jews. No, that's not literal Israel, not really a temple, no, not Jews fleeing Judea! Not a literal regathering of Israel to their land, no a literal judgment of the nations! No, none of that is real, but I will tell you what it all means!

That's not how I handle Scripture.

Much love!

 

[covenantee]

I don't follow dispensationalism or it's teachers, a pre-trib rapture and millennial kingdom on this earth is a fabricated fairy tale of man

That's good.

But denial and dismissal, within Protestantism, of the Reformation's prophetic doctrines, first appeared within dispensationalism.

 

[The Light]

That is of course your opinion, but the book of Revelation says something else.

You only think that the book of Revelation shows something else. The book of Revelation shows that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal and then the wrath of God begins. If you can prove otherwise, I would certainly like to see it.

 

[The Light]

The catholic church isn't the whore mystery Babylon, and the papacy isn't the beast of Revelation 13

Jerusalem is the whore Mystery Babylon, and the "Future" Antichrist/Beast will be a Jew who is a King/Ruler of Hebrew Decent

Please produce some scripture that supports the Antichrist being a Jew?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The ten horned beast is obviously symbolic.
A thousand years is obviously literal.

Do you also think that a thousand generations is obviously literal such as the thousand generations referenced here:

Deuteronomy 7:9 Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

YOUR inability to differentiate between symbolic and literal text is the reason you misinterpret so much scripture.

LOL. Says the guy who thinks Christ will literally kill His enemies with a sword coming out of His mouth.

 

[teamventure]

Then you are reading without understanding, since your comments are moot by what I've written. I've never claimed everything is literal, and I've made very specific statements about what is or may be symbolic.

If the Bible does not present something as a symbol, then if you call something a symbol, that's all that is happening. Someone is calling something in the Bible a symbol. It's a man's word, but not God's Word.

And if the Bible does not present the meaning of the symbols it uses, then if you give a meaning, that's all it is, the meaning of something as conjectured by a man. Man's word, not God's Word.

Unless the Bible says something is a symbol, and gives the meaning of the symbol, then symbolic interpretations lack Scriptural authority. This is axiomatic. If the Bible doesn't say it, then the Bible doesn't say it.

The fact is, many people seem fond of calling things symbols, and then telling you what it means, as a way to negate what is actually written, because they cannot reconcile the passage to their view.

What better way to deny dispensationalism than to deny the prophecies that show it? No, that's not a literal 144,000 Jews. No, that's not literal Israel, not really a temple, no, not Jews fleeing Judea! Not a literal regathering of Israel to their land, no a literal judgment of the nations! No, none of that is real, but I will tell you what it all means!

That's not how I handle Scripture.

Much love!

Amen you said it!
If we could all know how to take what is literal literally, we would errase most of people's misunderstandings of scripture.
This post should be laminated or put on a plaque