The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Spiritual Israelite]

And do you then assume that even if something isn't said to be a symbol that it is, because you think so? Your default?

No. I don't make any assumptions about any given text as far as whether or not it's literal or symbolic. That has to be spiritually discerned. But, you clearly do make assumptions based on your belief that something can only be a symbol if it specifically says so.

That even if the Bible doesn't say that something is a symbol, and doesn't say what such symbol would mean, that you can say so? What would make you correct? I suggest that such interpretations specifically lack any Scriptural authority.

Spare me this nonsense, please.

There will be a 1000 year kingdom. If you deny that the words mean what they say, show from the Bible that they don't, and what it is they really mean.

This is a ridiculous argument. So, should we believe that the beast with seven heads and ten horns is a literal beast with seven literal heads and ten literal horns because that's what the words say? Come on. Give me a break.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And THAT... is exactly the punishment that will come upon those who follow men's false Pre-trib Rapture theory, because God is NOT the author of it, nor is it written anywhere in His Word. So just as with those written of in His Word that pronounced their own sentence, that is exactly what you have done, if you don't repent and get back into His Word as written.

While I agree that the pre-trib rapture theory is false, it is completely inappropriate to lump them in with those who will experience God's wrath. Show me the scripture which teaches that having the correct end times view is a requirement for avoiding God's wrath. You're talking about Christians having God's wrath come down on them just because they're ignorant about end times doctrine. Where does scripture teach that anywhere?

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

 

[marks]

But, you clearly do make assumptions based on your belief that something can only be a symbol if it specifically says so.

Again, that is how Scriptural Authority is seen. Lacking this testimony, it is the interpretation presented by a man. We can all declare things "symbols", and we will have different lists, and no unity of doctrine. We will have different interpretations of those "symbols", further separating in our understandings. As seen frequently on these threads.

This is a ridiculous argument. So, should we believe that the beast with seven heads and ten horns is a literal beast with seven literal heads and ten literal horns because that's what the words say? Come on. Give me a break.

And God must have feathers? These beasts are in fact interpreted in the Bible for us. So if we go with those interpretations, that is Biblical Authority.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And God must have feathers? These beasts are in fact interpreted in the Bible for us. So if we go with those interpretations, that is Biblical Authority.

So, please tell me the identity of the beasts then if they "are in fact interpreted in the Bible for us".

 

[covenantee]

Your a follower of Ellen G. White and 7th Day Adventist Eschatology, like the created doctrine of the investigative judgement after the 1844 great disappointment in predicting the "second coming" of Jesus Christ that never took place

No Rome isn't the whore Mystery Babylon, and the catholic popes haven't fulfilled the role of the future (Beast/Antichrist)

The Reformation preceded SDA by more than two centuries.

God raised up, inspired, and empowered the Reformers to liberate His True Church from spiritual darkness and oppression.

By His grace and mercy, they triumphed.

You and I and all true believers are the spiritual beneficiaries.

God and His Reformers were right.

 

[Phoneman777]

Your a follower of Ellen G. White and 7th Day Adventist Eschatology, like the created doctrine of the investigative judgement after the 1844 great disappointment in predicting the "second coming" of Jesus Christ that never took place

No Rome isn't the whore Mystery Babylon, and the catholic popes haven't fulfilled the role of the future (Beast/Antichrist)

As I said, I used to follow Jesuit Futurism until I learned the rock-solid, air tight, irrefutable truth of Protestant Historicism. Why are you still following Jesuit lies when 2 Peter 3:10 KJV says when the Lord comes as a thief, there won't be 7 more seconds of anything going on down here, much less 7 years?

 

[The Light]

Ah! Yes, I understand now. I said on the very day, the rain began. I got it mixed up with Lot, where on the very day he left, the destruction came. I read it and you’re right, 7 days. Thanks!

Wow. I'm stunned by stunnedbygrace. Many people are unable to understand Genesis 7 even though all you have to do is read what it says. Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood, even as the Church will be in heaven before the 70th week of Daniel.

 

[teamventure]

No. I don't make any assumptions about any given text as far as whether or not it's literal or symbolic. That has to be spiritually discerned. But, you clearly do make assumptions based on your belief that something can only be a symbol if it specifically says so.

Spare me this nonsense, please.

This is a ridiculous argument. So, should we believe that the beast with seven heads and ten horns is a literal beast with seven literal heads and ten literal horns because that's what the words say? Come on. Give me a break.

The ten horned beast is obviously symbolic.
A thousand years is obviously literal.

 

[teamventure]

And THAT... is exactly the punishment that will come upon those who follow men's false Pre-trib Rapture theory, because God is NOT the author of it, nor is it written anywhere in His Word. So just as with those written of in His Word that pronounced their own sentence, that is exactly what you have done, if you don't repent and get back into His Word as written.



Once again, you show YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT PAUL was teaching there in 1 Thessalonians 5 about that "wrath" in verse 9. That is about God's cup of wrath poured out upon the DECEIVED AND WICKED ON THE LAST DAY of this world when Jesus comes. It is NOT about Satan's wrath during the tribulation that those in Christ will suffer.

This is why Paul was teaching there in 1 Thessalonians 5 about the wicked and deceived who will be saying, "Peace and safety", and that's when that "wrath" will come upon THEM, as a "sudden destruction"! That is about the "day of the Lord" timing, the LAST DAY of this world, and the day of Christ's ONLY return.

THUS IT IS OBVIOUS YOU DON'T HEED THAT SCRIPTURE, NOR DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

The thought that pre-tribers will be damned is not even implied in scripture at all and is even a stretch for the most imaginative. It's rubbish.

 

[Truth7t7]

As I said, I used to follow Jesuit Futurism until I learned the rock-solid, air tight, irrefutable truth of Protestant Historicism. Why are you still following Jesuit lies when 2 Peter 3:10 KJV says when the Lord comes as a thief, there won't be 7 more seconds of anything going on down here, much less 7 years?

You follow the teachings of Ellen G. White in 7th Day Adventism

I don't follow any teachers regarding anything, I don't read their books or watch their videos, just the good Ole KJV Holy Bible and Strongs Concordance

Yes Ellen G. Whites teachings are in error, the investigative judgement promoted by Ellen is just one, self proclaimed 2,000+ dreams and visions given by God, a big lie in my opinion

Ellen and James White are buried surrounded by an Egyptian Obelisk, a high symbol in Occultic Freemasonry


Photo added by Edward L. Baugher III

Ellen Gould Harmon White Famous memorial
ORIGINAL NAME Harmon
BIRTH 26 Nov 1827
Gorham, Cumberland County, Maine, USA
DEATH 16 Jul 1915 (aged 87)
Saint Helena, Napa County, California, USA
BURIAL
Oak Hill Cemetery
Battle Creek, Calhoun County, Michigan, USA


Added by Keith Burkhead

 

[Truth7t7]

The Reformation preceded SDA by more than two centuries.

God raised up, inspired, and empowered the Reformers to liberate His True Church from spiritual darkness and oppression.

By His grace and mercy, they triumphed.

You and I and all true believers are the spiritual beneficiaries.

God and His Reformers were right.

Phoneman Is a 7th Day Adventist, following the teachings of Ellen G. White, the woman who claimed to have over 2,000 dreams and visions given by God

 

[Truth7t7]

The ten horned beast is obviously symbolic.
A thousand years is obviously literal.

A thousand years is one day with the Lord, a thousand years is used symbolically to show the Lord's eternal realm has no literal time, Jesus is the Alpha/Omega, he is outside of time

Revelation 20:1-6 shows the Lords eternal realm of no literal time, (Thousand Years) is a symbolic reference of this, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ, 100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Earthly Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[ewq1938]

Your inability to differentiate between symbolic and literal text is the reason you misinterpret so much scripture.

YOUR inability to differentiate between symbolic and literal text is the reason you misinterpret so much scripture.

 

[n2thelight]

YOUR inability to differentiate between symbolic and literal text is the reason you misinterpret so much scripture.

Honestly , that's the reason most can't understand scripture .

Can when do a thread on that very subject ?

 

[covenantee]

Phoneman Is a 7th Day Adventist, following the teachings of Ellen G. White, the woman who claimed to have over 2,000 dreams and visions given by God

Seventh Day Adventism recognizes and embraces the significance and accomplishments of the Reformation.

Dispensational futurism denies and rejects the significance and accomplishments of the Reformation.

 

[Truth7t7]

Seventh Day Adventism recognizes and embraces the significance and accomplishments of the Reformation.

Dispensational futurism denies and rejects the significance and accomplishments of the Reformation.

Seventh Day Adventist follow the Non-Prophetess in Ellen G. White and her many false teachings and claims of 2,000 dreams and visions given by God, the investigative judgement and Sunday observance being the mark of the beast, are just a few of these teachings

The reformers observed Sunday, yes Ellen G. White taught that such have received the mark of the beast as seen below

Ellen White, Review and Herald, July 13, 1897, wrote: “when you obey the decree that commands you to cease from labor on Sunday and worship God, . . . You consent to receive the mark of the beast."

 

[Phoneman777]

Hi Phoneman - Haven’t seen you around for awhile. Despite the last two years downward spiral, Hope all is well with you and yours.

God Bless,
Taken

Nice to see you too! Hope the same for you and yours, as well. Everything is going great!

 

[Phoneman777]

You follow the teachings of Ellen G. White in 7th Day Adventism

I don't follow any teachers regarding anything, I don't read their books or watch their videos, just the good Ole KJV Holy Bible and Strongs Concordance

Yes Ellen G. Whites teachings are in error, the investigative judgement promoted by Ellen is just one, self proclaimed 2,000+ dreams and visions given by God, a big lie in my opinion

Ellen and James White are buried surrounded by an Egyptian Obelisk, a high symbol in Occultic Freemasonry


Photo added by Edward L. Baugher III

Ellen Gould Harmon White Famous memorial
ORIGINAL NAME Harmon
BIRTH 26 Nov 1827
Gorham, Cumberland County, Maine, USA
DEATH 16 Jul 1915 (aged 87)
Saint Helena, Napa County, California, USA
BURIAL
Oak Hill Cemetery
Battle Creek, Calhoun County, Michigan, USA


Added by Keith Burkhead

Protestant Historicism arose in the SIXTEENTH CENTURY, got it? Three hundred plus years before the Great Religious Awakening, EGW, the Millerite movement, and the organization of the SDA church in the 1860s. Let's go back to the 16th century, shall we?

What do you think about the fact there was no record of Jesuit Futurism anywhere in existence by the time Luther and company had devastated the Roman Catholic church with their preaching of Protestant Historicism and its "Twin Pillars of the Reformation"?
1) salvation by grace through faith alone
2) the Papacy is the Antichrist of Bible prophecy

What do you think about the fact that after decades of the preaching of Protestant Historicism, so many Catholics threw out their rosary beads and became Protestants that the Papacy organized a Counter-Reformation whose sole purpose was to destroy the Protestant Reformation?

What do you think about the fact that during this Counter-Reformation the Pope commissioned the Jesuit Order to find a Biblical alternative to Protestant Historicism and the result was both Jesuit Preterism by Jesuit Alcazar and Jesuit Futurism by Jesuit Ribera?

What do you think about the fact that for over 300+ years, the Protestant Reformers were too Biblically literate and intelligent to be seduced by false Jesuit ideas and continued to preach Protestant Historicism universally, in every church, every Bible college, every gathering, in every part of the entire Protestant world?

What do you think about the fact that both Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism were forced underground and were forgotten during that 300+ years of Protestant Historicism domination which continued to spread the light of truth and lead many more Catholics out of the spiritual darkness of Roman Catholicism?

What do you think about the fact that not until the 19th century (when the Protestant Reformation slowed down due to a massive cut back in Papal persecution against Protestantism) did stupid, ignorant, braindead, moronic, complacent, Stockholm Syndrome-suffering, amnesia-suffering "Protestants" begin to resurrect these disgusting, asinine, unBiblical, inconsistent, contradictory Jesuit Futurist and Preterist lies of the Papacy and incorporate them into the Protestant church, and now "protestants" who are no longer protesting defend to the death these same Jesuit lies?

Let's talk about that, shall we?

 

[Phoneman777]

A thousand years is one day with the Lord, a thousand years is used symbolically to show the Lord's eternal realm has no literal time, Jesus is the Alpha/Omega, he is outside of time

Revelation 20:1-6 shows the Lords eternal realm of no literal time, (Thousand Years) is a symbolic reference of this, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ, 100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Earthly Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Do you reject the "day/year" principle of prophecy?

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneman Is a 7th Day Adventist, following the teachings of Ellen G. White, the woman who claimed to have over 2,000 dreams and visions given by God

You follow Jesuit Futurism which came about by the Jesuit Order originated by Ignatius Loyola who claimed to have received many, many messages from God, including "the Spiritual Exercises of Loyola" which form the basis for the massive charismatic movement taking place today in the evangelical world, including the "Alpha Course" which so many non-denominational churches embrace as a critical component to their "seeker service" style of conducting church.

Why do you trust an Antichrist organization to teach you about the meat of end times prophecy which for almost 1,500 years has failed to gain a proper position on the most elementary of all milk doctrine: salvation by grace through faith alone?