The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Taken]

Specifically, the harpadzo of those who are "in Christ".

Amen!
WHY?
BECAUSE...they ARE Converted.

Those IN Christ...Heartfully Confessed their Sin Against God.
Those IN Christ...Heartfully Confessed Belief in the Lord God.
Those IN Christ...Received Gods Forgiveness.
Those IN Christ...Are Cleansed from all Unrighteousness.
Those IN Christ...willingly Gave their bodily LIFE unto God.
Those IN Christ...Received Gods Salvation.
Those IN Christ...Received Gods Holy Spirit Baptism.
Those IN Christ...soul IS restored, Saved unto Life with God.
Those IN Christ...spirit IS quickened, with God forever.
Those IN Christ...body IS prepared, for glorification.
Those IN Christ...are NOT appointed to suffer WRATH.

Gods WRATH has Before and shall Again come down from Heaven, upon the Earth, upon men of the Earth, Because of mens Unrighteousness.

And AGAIN those who are prepared ... same as Noah prepared;
ARE SAVED ... and SHALL rise up OFF the Face of the Earth....
same as Noah Was Saved and risen up OFF the Face of the Earth.

Brethren IN Christ, Glorify the Lord God ‘till that day His Servant Calls you Up to meet Him in the air.

Praise and Glory to our Faithful and True Lord God Almighty,
Taken

 

[Davy]

Jesus comes "as a thief" when He comes at the Resurrection/Rapture.

The gathering to Christ of those still alive on earth is the phrase "caught up" per the KJV Bible I use. Nowhere does the word 'rapture' appear in the KJV Bible.

The time of the "caught up" event of 1 Thessalonians 4 will be on the LAST DAY of this present world. That... is when Jesus comes to gather His Church, and that is the timing He specifically showed in His Olivet discourse (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27). Not only that, but the event of Jesus gathering His saints per those Olivet discourse verse directly parallels... what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4, so you have NO EXCUSE.

 

[Taken]

The gathering to Christ of those still alive on earth is the phrase "caught up" per the KJV Bible I use. Nowhere does the word 'rapture' appear in the KJV Bible.

The time of the "caught up" event of 1 Thessalonians 4 will be on the LAST DAY of this present world. That... is when Jesus comes to gather His Church, and that is the timing He specifically showed in His Olivet discourse (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27). Not only that, but the event of Jesus gathering His saints per those Olivet discourse verse directly parallels... what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4, so you have NO EXCUSE.[/QUOTE]

#1 Jesus does not come to earth to gather His Church.
#2 Jesus does NOT gather His Church.

* A holy angel servant, (archangel) gathers Christ’s Church Up off the face of the Earth, to the Clouds, with a Trump signal.
* The Lord descends from Heaven and MEETS Christ’s Church in the air.

AFTER Christ’s Church is gathered ABOVE the face of the Earth....there are MANY more DAYS, many months, and several years that remain of this present world ON Earth

 

[Enoch111]

Nowhere does the word 'rapture' appear in the KJV Bible.

This is about as lame an excuse as one can come up with to deny the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. So if you don't like one word which says it all, you can keep repeating "caught up together". Same difference.

 

[Taken]

This is about as lame an excuse as one can come up with to deny the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. So if you don't like one word which says it all, you can keep repeating "caught up together". Same difference.

Agree, quibbling over a word is silly.
The manner is the SAME as a Jewish Wedding.
A contract of Betrothal was made between the Bride’s Father and the Groom.
The Groom would prepare a home for his Bride.
The Bride would remain in her Father’s House, preparing for the Wedding.
The Prepared Bride Waits to be called.
The Grooms Servant would precede the Groom, and Signal the Bride her Groom is coming.
The Prepared Vailed Bride would be escorted to the Grooms fathers house.
The Grooms father, would prepare a room in his house for the wedded couple.
The Grooms father, would prepare a feast supper.
The Grooms father, would receive the Guests (witnesses).
The Groom & his vailed Bride both at the Grooms fathers house....

Scripture gives the same Scenario...regardless of a single word.

A Brides Father.....Bride-the Converted; Father-God
The Contract........Brides-Father; Groom-Jesus
The Groom..........House Prepared-Earthly Kingdom-Abraham’s Promised land
The Bride............Converted-Waiting in her Father’s house, all of Earth
The Bride............Prepared-Converted-Vailed
The Servant of Groom...Archangel...Calls Escorts Vailed Bride to House of Grooms’ Father.
The Vailed Bride.....................Goes to Groom’s Fathers House.
The Groom ..........Descends from His Fathers Kingdom to His Father’s House.
The Guests ..........Arriving.
The Father, the Groom, the Bride, Prepared Readied.
The Feast Supper...Prepared.
Father Halts proceeding....WHY?

* OOPS....Some Guests, are NOT YET DRESSED to ARRIVE.
WHERE ARE THEY? On Earth deciding IF they want to be a guest OR NOT.
* OOPS....Some UNINVITED NOY appropriately DRESSED, HAVE Arrived.
WHAT TO DO ABOUT THEM? Ejected to outer darkness.
* OOPS....Waiting on Guests...TO GET DRESSED
* OOPS....The Grooms prepared House, Kingdom, Throne...presently messy, via the ACTS of wicked men, evil spirits.
* OOPS....Waiting....
HOW LONG WAITING?
* Hours, Days, Months, Seasons, Years....

* The Coming of the Lord is one event.
* The Return of the Son of Man is another event.

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.



John 14:
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
[4] And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

James 5:
[7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

 

[farouk]

Agree, quibbling over a word is silly.
The manner is the SAME as a Jewish Wedding.
A contract of Betrothal was made between the Bride’s Father and the Groom.
The Groom would prepare a home for his Bride.
The Bride would remain in her Father’s House, preparing for the Wedding.
The Prepared Bride Waits to be called.
The Grooms Servant would precede the Groom, and Signal the Bride her Groom is coming.
The Prepared Vailed Bride would be escorted to the Grooms fathers house.
The Grooms father, would prepare a room in his house for the wedded couple.
The Grooms father, would prepare a feast supper.
The Grooms father, would receive the Guests (witnesses).
The Groom & his vailed Bride both at the Grooms fathers house....

Scripture gives the same Scenario...regardless of a single word.

A Brides Father.....Bride-the Converted; Father-God
The Contract........Brides-Father; Groom-Jesus
The Groom..........House Prepared-Earthly Kingdom-Abraham’s Promised land
The Bride............Converted-Waiting in her Father’s house, all of Earth
The Bride............Prepared-Converted-Vailed
The Servant of Groom...Archangel...Calls Escorts Vailed Bride to House of Grooms’ Father.
The Vailed Bride.....................Goes to Groom’s Fathers House.
The Groom ..........Descends from His Fathers Kingdom to His Father’s House.
The Guests ..........Arriving.
The Father, the Groom, the Bride, Prepared Readied.
The Feast Supper...Prepared.
Father Halts proceeding....WHY?

* OOPS....Some Guests, are NOT YET DRESSED to ARRIVE.
WHERE ARE THEY? On Earth deciding IF they want to be a guest OR NOT.
* OOPS....Some UNINVITED NOY appropriately DRESSED, HAVE Arrived.
WHAT TO DO ABOUT THEM? Ejected to outer darkness.
* OOPS....Waiting on Guests...TO GET DRESSED
* OOPS....The Grooms prepared House, Kingdom, Throne...presently messy, via the ACTS of wicked men, evil spirits.
* OOPS....Waiting....
HOW LONG WAITING?
* Hours, Days, Months, Seasons, Years....

* The Coming of the Lord is one event.
* The Return of the Son of Man is another event.

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.



John 14:
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
[4] And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

James 5:
[7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

Hi @Taken Interesting comparison between the rapture and a wedding....

 

[Davy]

This is about as lame an excuse as one can come up with to deny the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. So if you don't like one word which says it all, you can keep repeating "caught up together". Same difference.

It is not lame. What is lame is how all the pre-trib rapture 'magicians and stage performers' like to use it over, and over, and over, like a BUZZ WORD, for FAD effect.

And like I said, the word 'rapture' is NOT in the KJV, nor the Greek manuscripts of The New Testament. It's actually a word that comes from a LATIN translation. The Catholic Church is probably who started using it first, but they sure don't agree with your pre-trib rapture theory you hold to.

 

[No Pre-TB]

This is about as lame an excuse as one can come up with to deny the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. So if you don't like one word which says it all, you can keep repeating "caught up together". Same difference.

Not really caught up as if going up. Properly:
like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize)

We can say when Christ seizes us (his treasure).

 

[Earburner]

Not really caught up as if going up. Properly:
like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize)

We can say when Christ seizes us (his treasure).

One should be careful here, in discerning where we shall be "caught up" to.
The KJV scripture says:
1Thes.4[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[No Pre-TB]

One should be careful here, in discerning where we shall be "caught up" to.
The KJV scripture says:
1Thes.4[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Good thing I’m not a KJV only-ist
We shall be seized together and meet the dead in the air.

 

[ewq1938]

Not really caught up as if going up.

The rapture does move people up. Not all raptures are that way, some moved someone a distance to the side and not always up to the clouds but the Rapture Paul and Christ spoke of are definitely upwards.

 

[No Pre-TB]

The rapture does move people up. Not all raptures are that way, some moved someone a distance to the side and not always up to the clouds but the Rapture Paul and Christ spoke of are definitely upwards.

You misunderstood what I was saying. We go “up” to meet. There’s no disagreement there, but caught “up” is not the same. A really poor translation that people use to equal it to going up. That’s not the noun’s definition.

 

[ewq1938]

You misunderstood what I was saying. We go “up” to meet. There’s no disagreement there, but caught “up” is not the same. A really poor translation that people use to equal it to going up. That’s not the noun’s definition.

The harpazo is indeed UP to the clouds and the expert translators knew that. The only people even qualified to question a translation would be someone with a degree in the ancient language.

 

[Taken]

It is not lame. What is lame is how all the pre-trib rapture 'magicians and stage performers' like to use it over, and over, and over, like a BUZZ WORD, for FAD effect.

And like I said, the word 'rapture' is NOT in the KJV, nor the Greek manuscripts of The New Testament. It's actually a word that comes from a LATIN translation. The Catholic Church is probably who started using it first, but they sure don't agree with your pre-trib rapture theory you hold to.

Are you aware of the meaning of the Word RAPTURE?

rapt - is to carry away
suffix; ure is the act of carrying away.

Rapture ....is the WHAT...ie carrying away.
Scripture reveals WHO is carried away.
Scripture reveals WHERE one is carried away TO.
Scripture reveals HOW one is carried away.
Scripture reveals WHEN one is carried away.
Scripture reveals WHY one is carried away.

1 Thes 5:
[24] Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Ya think being called and carried away is “magic” ?

 

[farouk]

Hmm. Let me try and illustrate with another example.
Take the Trinity. Is there a passage anywhere in scripture that tells us outright that our God is one God in three persons?
No.
What are some passages that we might take “at face value” about God?

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.


In this verse we see a command to ‘hear the Lord God is one’. We know the Jews were outraged with Jesus because he claimed to be God…even when he acknowledge ‘the Father’ still in heaven. To them, that was directly opposing the above verse…which meant blasphemy of the highest order. Indeed…to take it ‘at face value’ we too much view Christ’s claims as blasphemy.
Except…


1 Peter 1:2
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:

Here we have (as we find all throughout the NT) a clear reference to the 3 persons of the Godhead.
It is passages like this, AND the OT references, when collated together, that led the Church Fathers to develop the doctrine of the Trinity.

They did not start out with the doctrine of the Trinity, which they read into the passages.
Nor did they insist that the OT passage must be ‘taken at face value’. That would have led to a confusing tangle where there was only a single God. But also seemingly 3.

When put together though, we have one God, in three persons. Each person displaying unique characteristics…but sharing the same attributes.

I’m trying to highlight that we need to do the same thing when coming to the essential ideas of what gives a person salvation.
By assuming that a ‘new dispensation’ means Matt 25 CAN be saying that salvation by works will be possible, you’ve also assumed that EVERYTHING else in scripture that speaks to what gives salvation and WHY, is incorrect.
THAT’S why collating all the passages together before we draw our conclusions is so essential.

Hi @Naomi25 The baptismal formula at the end of Matthew 28 mentions God in Three Persons.

 

[Dcopymope]

When I consider the Rapture of the Church, and when it might occur, I find a couple of things seem to hold true.

One is that there is no place that just says, it happens then, you can only know through the process of elimination.

Another is, after you've ruled out everything it can't be, the only option left is PreTrib.

One more . . . the more likely someone is to call something "symbolic", for instance, the 144,000 sealed Jews, the more likely someone is to call these things symbolic, the less likely to hold to pre-trib timing. The more literally Scripture is taken, the more likely someone will be pre-trib. These seem to go hand in hand.

If Jesus comes and first gathers Israel, and then gathers the nations to be judged according as He said, the church has to already be gone from the earth when the great tribulation begins.

If the Revelation is prophetic narrative, and when it says this happens and then that happens, that's the way it is, the church must be gone before any of the trumpets and bowls.

So to continue the one example . . . "the servant of God were sealed", John heard the number, 144,000, all Jewish men. No gentiles there, no women, and only 144 thousand of them. No church present on the earth.

Much love!

Well, about 78% of Ukrainians that identify with a religion are orthodox Christians, so I have a simple question for those who believe in this "rapture" spiel. What happened to the so called "rapture" for your fellow Christians in Ukraine? Or is this rapture only for westerners? Americans? According to many of yall interpretations of end times prophecy, those who believe in a pre-trib rapture especially, your behinds should have BEEN up out of here a while ago. So what happened?

 

[No Pre-TB]

Well, about 78% of Ukrainians that identify with a religion are orthodox Christians, so I have a simple question for those who believe in this "rapture" spiel. What happened to the so called "rapture" for your fellow Christians in Ukraine? Or is this rapture only for westerners? Americans? According to many of yall interpretations of end times prophecy, those who believe in a pre-trib rapture especially, your behinds should have BEEN up out of here a while ago. So what happened?

I know some are waiting for the 80th year (2028) from 1948 (they think Israel, they who are fleshly anti-Christian Jews, is part of a fig tree that blooms) because the 70th year (2018) didn’t work out for Pre-TB rapture enthusiasts.

 

[Dcopymope]

I know some are waiting for the 80th year (2028) from 1948 (they think Israel, they who are fleshly anti-Christian Jews, is part of a fig tree that blooms) because the 70th year (2018) didn’t work out for Pre-TB rapture enthusiasts.

LOL...Here is the issue. They think they're just going get scooped by white Jesus and skirt on by for all the evil their wicked ass ancestors have done, deeds that they benefit from today, and for the evil they and their kinfolk continue to do to this day. No true repentance or restoration required, both for their personal sins AND for the sins of their ancestors, they believe, as a nation, and a people. Well, then the most high Yahweh has got a message for you gentiles, because when he pours out his wrath on the earth (as he is now starting to), he targets you as a nation, as a people. And your recompense, your reward, will be double unto you what you have done to the TRUE descendants of Jacob, and its not those skin head posers in the state of Israel today, who "say they are Jews, and are not". (Rev 2:9).

(Obadiah 1:1-16)
"The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord GOD concerning Edom.......

¶ The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground? {4} Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD. ......

{10} ¶ For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever. {11} In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them. {12} But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress. {13} Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity; {14} Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress. {15} For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. {16} For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been."

Now the Eurocentric, orthodox church always love harp on about the Day of the Lord but they NEVER give context as to exactly what the Day of the Lord is really about. They like to say the new testament is the old testament revealed but don't know a damn thing about what the old testament actually says. So here is "old" testament scripture telling you what the Day of the Lord is about, and why God is angry at the descendants of Esau, and at all the gentiles.

(Joel 3:1-21) "For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, {2} I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land. {3} And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink. {4} Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head; {5} Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things: {6} The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border. {7} Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head: {8} And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken it.

{9} ¶ Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: {10} Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong. {11} Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD. {12} Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. {13} Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. {14} Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. {15} The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. {16} The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. {17} So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

{18} ¶ And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim. {19} Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land. {20} But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation. {21} For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion."

Now who was scattered, sold as slaves, far from their border, into all nations? See my user image to give you a hint. And I go into this in the links below.

O House Of Israel, Where Are You?

O House Of Israel, Where Are You?

And, to clarify, Joel is one of the many old testament prophets the Messiah was quoting in his Olivet speech. NOTHING he said concerning the "great tribulation" that was to come upon Israel that started in 70AD, her deliverance later, and the judgement on the nations was new. And concerning his "nation against nation" spiel, he was specifically quoting Zechariah. He was NOT talking about random nations randomly ready to pounce on each other, but I'll leave that for another thread.

(Luke 21:7-24) "¶ {7} And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?.......{10} Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: {11} And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. {12} But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake. {13} And it shall turn to you for a testimony. {14} Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:.....

{20} And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. {21} Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. {22} For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. {23} But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. {24} And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

So for those who believe God is just going to spare you for what you and your ancestors have done without any recompense, you have been woefully mistaken. God does not change. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. If he didn't let Israel, the REAL one that is, scoot on by for her sins, then don't think for one second that he will for you, just because you have good times white Jesus.

(Numbers 14:18) "The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."

(Lamentations 5:7) "Our fathers have sinned, and are not; and we have borne their iniquities."

 

[No Pre-TB]

LOL...Here is the issue. They think they're just going get scooped by white Jesus and skirt on by for all the evil their wicked ass ancestors have done, deeds that they benefit from today, and for the evil they and their kinfolk continue to do to this day. No true repentance or restoration required, both for their personal sins AND for the sins of their ancestors, they believe, as a nation, and a people. Well, then the most high Yahweh has got a message for you gentiles, because when he pours out his wrath on the earth (as he is now starting to), he targets you as a nation, as a people. And your recompense, your reward, will be double unto you what you have done to the TRUE descendants of Jacob, and its not those skin head posers in the state of Israel today, who "say they are Jews, and are not". (Rev 2:9).



Now the Eurocentric, orthodox church always love harp on about the Day of the Lord but they NEVER give context as to exactly what the Day of the Lord is really about. They like to say the new testament is the old testament revealed but don't know a damn thing about what the old testament actually says. So here is "old" testament scripture telling you what the Day of the Lord is about, and why God is angry at the descendants of Esau, and at all the gentiles.



Now who was scattered, sold as slaves, far from their border, into all nations? See my user image to give you a hint. And I go into this in the links below.

O House Of Israel, Where Are You?

O House Of Israel, Where Are You?

And, to clarify, Joel is one of the many old testament prophets the Messiah was quoting in his Olivet speech. NOTHING he said concerning the "great tribulation" that was to come upon Israel that started in 70AD, her deliverance later, and the judgement on the nations was new. And concerning his "nation against nation" spiel, he was specifically quoting Zechariah. He was NOT talking about random nations randomly ready to pounce on each other, but I'll leave that for another thread.



So for those who believe God is just going to spare you for what you and your ancestors have done without any recompense, you have been woefully mistaken. God does not change. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. If he didn't let Israel, the REAL one that is, scoot on by for her sins, then don't think for one second that he will for you, just because you have good times white Jesus.

Simply, Acts 3:21
The restoration of all things will not be completed in a Pre-TB rapture timing because according to them, there exist 7 years of God’s wrath on earth after their departure . Therefore, it’s impossible for Christ to leave heaven with that scenario because all things are still unchanged and still need to be removed

 

[Dcopymope]

Simply, Acts 3:21
The restoration of all things will not be completed in a Pre-TB rapture timing because according to them, there exist 7 years of God’s wrath on earth after their departure . Therefore, it’s impossible for Christ to leave heaven with that scenario because all things are still unchanged and still need to be removed

Right, and in Revelation, he doesn't actually come back with his armies from heaven until after all seven seals, seven trumpets and seven vials. WAY later, near the very end of the book.

(Acts 3:21) "Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

See, this backs up what I'm saying. Nothing he said was new. For the most part, all Christ and his apostles did was quote Gods "holy prophets" from back in the olden days. These Eurocentric, orthodox Churches cannot claim to understand what they were actually trying to say without this understanding. Ain't NOTHING in there about escaping judgement without recompense or repentance as a nation and a people, for your sins AND that of your ancestors. God is just, and justice WILL be served.