The Promised Land:

[Jay Ross]

For the record.

This the actions of a bully on the forum.

Oh well, so be it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your understanding of the Hebrew Root Word H:5769 ‘ō·w·lām as an infinite quantity does not match what God later said would occur if Israel indulged in continual idolatrous worship where, when it is found in the Hebrew text, must be considered to be finite where there is a definite end point to the possession of the Land. In 2 Chronicles 7:12ff this is certainly the case.

In Genesis 13:14-17 God promised Abraham that He would give Abraham's descendants the prescribed entity of the earth for a finite period of time.

Genesis 13:14-17: - 14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: "Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are — northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for all the earth which you see, {that (entity)}, I will give to your descendants for a long period of time whose ending, which is beyond man’s comprehension, is at the vanishing point, {of this particular time period}, in the future.[1] 16 And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered. 17 Arise, walk in my earth through its length and its width, for this I will give. "​

In all of the prophetic passages describing God's gathering of the Israelites to Himself, God's undertaking is that He will bring Israel back to a fertile field (H:0127) where Israel can send down deep roots into the soil and produce heads that give up to an increase of 100-fold gain in seeds. Christ also foretold of this time in the Parable of the Sower, that a time would come where the one broadcasting the seed would do so in a prepared fertile field.

In Ezekiel 34 God also foretold that he would separate one flock from another and then separate the Rams from the He-goats, which jesus also told His disciples would happen when He comes to Judge the peoples of the earth. It is only at this time that the Saints will inherit the whole earth as His Sons.

I find that this statement is very true: -

View attachment 37156

This claim is very pointed at the Christianity practiced today.

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[1] Another way of saying this verse might be: - “15 for all the earth which you see, that entity, I will give to your descendants for a long period of time where the end point of that time period, will be beyond your descendants capacity to comprehend when the possession of the described land will end.

You’re ignoring the fact. God said Israel will repent. And will be restored.

There will not be peace in Israeli today. Israel is still in sin..

 

[Jay Ross]

You’re ignoring the fact. God said Israel will repent. And will be restored.

There will not be peace in Israeli today. Israel is still in sin..

In the spirit of keeping our posts short, it is not possible to dot all of the "i's" and cross all of the "t's" to everybody's satisfaction and include every step that needs to be taken by people to become the Saints of God.

In my reference to Ezekiel 34, I acknowledged that God would restore Israel back into the fertile field/earth that he had given to Abraham and His descendants to possess.

Since this thread is on the topic of the "Promised land," I kept my post above focused primarily on that subject matter.

The described "land" in Genesis 15:17ff was God providing a sign by which Abraham's descendants would know that when they had possession of the prescribed land in the Middle East, from the Euphrates River down to the Nile River that they then could believe that God's promise of the whole earth would also become a reality in the distant future.

Shalom

 

[Jack]

Amos 9
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

Israel is home to stay!

 

[Jay Ross]

@Jack, what you have copied from the translation that you have is what the translators believed God is saying in these two verses. However I would paraphrase these two verse in this manner in keeping with the many other prophetic passage where God tells us that he will plant them in a fertile field.

Amos 9:14-15: -

14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;​

They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;​

They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;​

They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. ​

15 I will plant them in their land/a fertile field,​

And no longer shall they be pulled up​

From the land/fertile field I have given them,"​

Says the Lord your God.​

The above is my paraphrasing of these two verses. In your translation they have translated H:0127, "’aḏ·mā·ṯām" as land whereas the Root Hebrew Word has the meaning of "soil" and as such in my paraphrase of these two verses I have use the words "fertile field" in keeping with the Parable of the Sower and the field where the Sower scattered his seed.

For Israel to be a blessing to all of the peoples of the world, they need to be scattered amongst them.

God is want the Israelites to circumcise their hearts and to worship Him alone.

Shalom

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am not sure why Israel would say this is not the promised land.

Is it the promised Land?

They not only would have to go against their own scripture (the OT) they would have to go against their own religion.

You said: “They not only would have to go against their own scripture (the OT) they would have to go against their own religion.”

Unless I’m mistaken “their own scripture/religion” …Christ did go against their own scripture/religion saying “you have heard it said: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life” …”you have heard it said to hate your enemies and love your brothers. But I say unto you to not only love your brothers but to also love your enemies” …how many times did Jesus Christ speak out about “you have heard it said”? So yes…”they would have to go against their own scripture/religion” BUT that doesn’t mean they go against the word of God but instead “you have heard it said to hate your enemies and to love your brothers”, it doesn’t mean they go against the word of God in going against “you have heard it said” so much so that Jesus Christ (unless I’ve misunderstood) came to declare the truth over “you have heard it said”

“you have heard it said “this is your promised Land” “but I say unto you that I will make you a Blessing unto all the nations.” Going against “you have hear it said” (imo) is maybe going against their own religion/scripture but that doesn’t mean in saying “this is not the land God promised unto us” is going against the word. Like Stephen saying “God does not dwell in temples made with hands” was yes going against their own religion/scripture but Not going against the Word.

While a saved child of Israel understands the heavenly place is what really matters. It does not deny that the physical land was still given to their fathers as an eternal gift..

“While a save child of Israel understands the heavenly place is what matters” …it doesn’t deny the physical land given unto them. Just an opinion but in saying God has a better Land for them doesn’t deny what’s been given unto them; same as Jesus Christ on the cross denying to be like them who gave them vinegar to drink for His thirst was not denying God but “He demonstrated the Love of God for us while we were yet sinners”

It’s a long passage but not once below is it against the word by in faith seeking a better promise.
Hebrews 11:3-16 By faith we understand that the world has been created by the word of God so that what is seen has not been made out of things that are visible. [4] By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he was attested to be righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks. [5] By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for before he was taken up, he was attested to have been pleasing to God. [6] And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for the one who comes to God must believe that He exists, and that He proves to be One who rewards those who seek Him. [7] By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. [8] By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he left, not knowing where he was going. [9] By faith he lived as a stranger in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; [10] for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. [11] By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised. [12] Therefore even from one man, and one who was as good as dead at that, there were born descendants who were just as the stars of heaven in number, and as the innumerable grains of sand along the seashore. [13] All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen and welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. [14] For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. [15] And indeed if they had been thinking of that country which they left, they would have had opportunity to return. [16] But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city (not made with hands) for them.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@Jack, what you have copied from the translation that you have is what the translators believed God is saying in these two verses. However I would paraphrase these two verse in this manner in keeping with the many other prophetic passage where God tells us that he will plant them in a fertile field.

Amos 9:14-15: -

14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;​

They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;​

They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;​

They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. ​

15 I will plant them in their land/a fertile field,​

And no longer shall they be pulled up​

From the land/fertile field I have given them,"​

Says the Lord your God.​

The above is my paraphrasing of these two verses. In your translation they have translated H:0127, "’aḏ·mā·ṯām" as land whereas the Root Hebrew Word has the meaning of "soil" and as such in my paraphrase of these two verses I have use the words "fertile field" in keeping with the Parable of the Sower and the field where the Sower scattered his seed.

For Israel to be a blessing to all of the peoples of the world, they need to be scattered amongst them.

God is want the Israelites to circumcise their hearts and to worship Him alone.

Shalom

Agree. Agree. Agree. Right now though hearts have turned into stone towards Israel as a curse and not a blessing…the shot it’s growing louder to “burn her!”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Amos 9
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

Israel is home to stay!

“They are the seed which the LORD has blessed” where does He sow His seed?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There will not be peace in Israeli today. Israel is still in sin..

How are they still in sin and there will be no peace?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Is it the promised Land?

Did God promise it to them and their families as an eternal gift?

Gen 15:
18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:

“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

Gen 17: 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

When does eternal stop?

You said: “They not only would have to go against their own scripture (the OT) they would have to go against their own religion.”

Unless I’m mistaken “their own scripture/religion” …Christ did go against their own scripture/religion saying “you have heard it said: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life” …”you have heard it said to hate your enemies and love your brothers. But I say unto you to not only love your brothers but to also love your enemies” …how many times did Jesus Christ speak out about “you have heard it said”? So yes…”they would have to go against their own scripture/religion” BUT that doesn’t mean they go against the word of God but instead “you have heard it said to hate your enemies and to love your brothers”, it doesn’t mean they go against the word of God in going against “you have heard it said” so much so that Jesus Christ (unless I’ve misunderstood) came to declare the truth over “you have heard it said”

“you have heard it said “this is your promised Land” “but I say unto you that I will make you a Blessing unto all the nations.” Going against “you have hear it said” (imo) is maybe going against their own religion/scripture but that doesn’t mean in saying “this is not the land God promised unto us” is going against the word. Like Stephen saying “God does not dwell in temples made with hands” was yes going against their own religion/scripture but Not going against the Word.


“While a save child of Israel understands the heavenly place is what matters” …it doesn’t deny the physical land given unto them. Just an opinion but in saying God has a better Land for them doesn’t deny what’s been given unto them; same as Jesus Christ on the cross denying to be like them who gave them vinegar to drink for His thirst was not denying God but “He demonstrated the Love of God for us while we were yet sinners”

It’s a long passage but not once below is it against the word by in faith seeking a better promise.
Hebrews 11:3-16 By faith we understand that the world has been created by the word of God so that what is seen has not been made out of things that are visible. [4] By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he was attested to be righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks. [5] By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for before he was taken up, he was attested to have been pleasing to God. [6] And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for the one who comes to God must believe that He exists, and that He proves to be One who rewards those who seek Him. [7] By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. [8] By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he left, not knowing where he was going. [9] By faith he lived as a stranger in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; [10] for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. [11] By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised. [12] Therefore even from one man, and one who was as good as dead at that, there were born descendants who were just as the stars of heaven in number, and as the innumerable grains of sand along the seashore. [13] All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen and welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. [14] For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. [15] And indeed if they had been thinking of that country which they left, they would have had opportunity to return. [16] But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city (not made with hands) for them.

I am sorry, but this makes no sense

Either God said he gave them the land and it is theres. or it is not.

A spiritual promise of eternity in heaven does not replace a physical promise here on earth. While it is a far BETTER promise.. it does not negate the promise on earth..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How are they still in sin and there will be no peace?

have they received their messiah? If not they are still in sin

Have the promise of God and them being restored to their land been fulfilled after they repent? if not. there will nto be peace until this happens.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

have they received their messiah? If not they are still in sin

Have the promise of God and them being restored to their land been fulfilled after they repent? if not. there will nto be peace until this happens.

What Fruit comes from the seed sown(planted) in the Land (ground, earth)?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What Fruit comes from the seed sown(planted) in the Land (ground, earth)?

what does this have to do with Gods promise to a people? I am confused by what you are trying to get at

did God give a people that land, and claim it was an eternal promise..

or did he not?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

what does this have to do with Gods promise to a people? I am confused by what you are trying to get at

did God give a people that land, and claim it was an eternal promise..

or did he not?

It has plenty to do with the ground, earth, land…as what is planted, where it is planted, and what Fruit is produced from where and what is planted. If you are so certain where they are planted and what is planted of the Lord ..then I only asked what Fruit comes from what’s planted of the Lord in the ground, land, earth?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It has plenty to do with the ground, earth, land…as what is planted, where it is planted, and what Fruit is produced from where and what is planted. If you are so certain where they are planted and what is planted of the Lord ..then I only asked what Fruit comes from what’s planted of the Lord in the ground?

If I give you some land. what does it matter what grows in the land or does not grow. that would be up to you. since you own it now..

is the land still yours or not?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If I give you some land. what does it matter what grows in the land or does not grow. that would be up to you. since you own it now..

is the land still yours or not?

You are avoiding the question of what fruit comes from what is planted in the ground. Read the parable of the sower and the seed and the ground. And then come back to say what does it matter what you grow ..that would be up to you…since you own it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are avoiding the question of what fruit comes from what is planted in the ground. Read the parable of the sower and the seed and the ground. And then come back to say what does it matter what you grow ..that would be up to you…since you own it.

I am not avoiding the question.

It has no bearing

again, Did God give that land to them or not?

Is God a liar? that is what this comes down to.

either God gave this land as an eternal promise and that promise still stands

or God lied.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am not avoiding the question.

It has no bearing

again, Did God give that land to them or not?

Is God a liar? that is what this comes down to.

either God gave this land as an eternal promise and that promise still stands

or God lied.

What is the Fruit? You keep saying what is planted which is them …their being planted in the Land of Promise …which is (said to be) the land, territory, plot, ground, earth being warred over today as being the ground promised unto them of God which grows Fruit. I ask what is the Fruit of what is planted of the Lord and you won’t answer. imo it’s because to answer you’ll need to admit the seed of Christ planted in the earth springs forth Spiritual Fruit out of the ground that He is planted in…different conditions of that ground is shown in the parable of the sower, the seed, and the ground. Then you’ll have to consider how to get Spiritual Fruit out of the ground, land, earth “plot” being fought over today as being the ground promised unto them by God. But you won’t give an answer to what is The Fruit of that which is planted (them?)…which maybe you did answer in it doesn’t matter what the Fruit is ..who cares?…what you grow is your business …it’s your land, your ground…you own it…so plant whatever you want in it. I guess that is your answer to what is the Fruit. Unless I misunderstood the answer regarding what is the Fruit is: it’s literal ground, earth, land where they can grow any crop they choose. It can be wheat. Apples. Corn. Pomegranates. It doesn’t matter what Fruit. Whatever they choose to do with “the plot” of earth promised to them of God. Not considering the Fruit of the Spirit where you reap what you sow? Luke 12:34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What is the Fruit?

What fruit?

God gave something to a people. He did nto ask for anythign in return.

I have no idea why you keep looking at fruit. Fruit has nothing to do with Gods promise.

You keep saying what is planted which is them …their being planted in the Land of Promise …which is (said to be) the land, territory, plot, ground, earth being warred over today as being the ground promised unto them of God which grows Fruit. I ask what is the Fruit of what is planted of the Lord and you won’t answer. imo it’s because to answer you’ll need to admit the seed of Christ planted in the earth springs forth Spiritual Fruit out of the ground that He is planted in…different conditions of that ground is shown in the parable of the sower, the seed, and the ground. Then you’ll have to consider how to get Spiritual Fruit out of the ground, land, earth “plot” being fought over today as being the ground promised unto them by God. But you won’t give an answer to what is The Fruit of that which is planted (them?)…which maybe you did answer in it doesn’t matter what the Fruit is ..who cares?…what you grow is your business …it’s your land, your ground…you own it…so plant whatever you want in it. I guess that is your answer to what is the Fruit. Unless I misunderstood the answer regarding what is the Fruit is: it’s literal ground, earth, land where they can grow any crop they choose. It can be wheat. Apples. Corn. Pomegranates. It doesn’t matter what Fruit. Whatever they choose to do with “the plot” of earth promised to them of God. Not considering the Fruit of the Spirit where you reap what you sow? Luke 12:34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

I did not say they were planted in the land of Promise. i said they were given the land.

Remember, God told abraham it would be 400 years before they could occupy it because the sin of the Amorite was not yet complete.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Fruit has nothing to do with Gods promise.

(Imo) Fruit has everything to do with Gods promise. I’m not sure how you can say Fruit has nothing to do with Gods promise. When it is everything for it is Gods (the Fathers) Will that you (they) bear Fruit.