The Proof of Salvation

[Waiting on him]

not going to agree with you on this what did paul write in Romans 8 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so it be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. {Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.} not fruitful i agree . let me put the ball in your court ..have you ever had a let down had a pitty party . he denied Christ 3 times out of fear notice peter next action after the rooster crowed
Matthew 26:74-75 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
74 Then he began to curse and to swear, saying, “I know not the man!” And immediately the cock crowed.

75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, when He said unto him, “Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny Me thrice.” And he went out and wept bitterly

next
2 Corinthians 7:9-11 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorrowful, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For ye were made sorrowful in a godly manner, that ye might receive injury from us in nothing.

10 For godly sorrow is not to be repented of, but worketh repentance unto salvation; but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

11 For behold this selfsame thing, when ye sorrowed in a godly manner: what earnest concern it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what requital! In all these things ye have proved yourselves to be clear in this matter...peter had true Holy Ghost conviction . peter had to grow for him yo be successful at Pentecost. peter was a rugged fisherman he did things his way God had had to transform him remember in the garden when they came after Christ .peter pulled out his sword and literally cut the soldiers ear off ..do you think this was by luck? Christ had to give peter another lesson .. the Holy Spirit does not just transform us into the perfect Christian in on swipe.. he changes us from Glory to glory one step at a time , i dare say if WE all would be honest our actions has not always been exactly righteous actions...

hey i have a set up technician at work .we use to lock horns big time.. yes i told him exactly what i thought point blank ..stood eye to eye with him in heated anger ..could have very easy come to blows.. i would have got my tale kicked . he is bigger stronger and about 10 years younger me... but ya know a buddy mine kept praying..i kept seeking God to help me with my temper . chill james out.. guess what we get along fairly good.. which is a miracle he is a but head .through God grace and the Holy spirit we have not had any major problems
dont be judging peter not having the holy spirit.. he was just as saved as you and i .the flesh can come in and we do fleshly things . if we dont guard against the flesh... so sorry < Peter wasn’t indwelt with the Holy Spirit at this time.> that boat dont float with me

How many times do you believe an individual receives the Holy Ghost?

 

[Ezra]

How many times do you believe an individual receives the Holy Ghost?

once after that we are told be filled the infilling is not once but continuing by growing in the grace and knowledge..which is a 24/7 operation

 

[stunnedbygrace]

where has your post gotten us???????? so far pardon my expression but its been like a mule looking at a new gate ..i can only go by scriptures lets try this again 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive" 7 so that in the coming ages" He might display the immeasurable riches of His grace through His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift— 9 not from works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of so that we should walk in them. i defined love but you really cant define it has it is a action take your pick of the Love your speaking of agape, phileo, storge, and eros. if you go to a lost person and hey your saved by Love.. there going to say I LOVE GOD.. then in the next few words use God *** his Grace that saves us is through Love , by love of Love -----action john 3:16 ==== end results when we get saved isssssssss = Grace God riches at Christ expense ==Romans 5:8 [Full Chapter]
But God commendeth His love toward us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. love comes first then it turns to grace


it sure appears as if your trying to change scriptures -- hopefully this helps ..i have yet to see your explanation

Haha! That was so confusing I'm not sure what you expect me to answer!

But once again, the op NEVER WAS talking about any love but Gods love and IT flowing through us to others.

 

[APAK]

We weren't talking about a love that can be pretended. We were talking about Gods love and if it is a different thing than Gods grace.

But honestly, I am kind of done with the conversation. It got too ridiculous.

If you can have all knowledge, ie: all truth, and yet it is possible you can have nothing, I'm at a loss for how truth trumps love.

The apostle said to have all knowledge but without love is to have nothing. Yet men come in here and say knowledge is more important than love. Its very strange to me to read Paul say it and then hear a man dispute it. I can't glean what is the PURPOSE of arguing against Paul...I could almost think it must be because a man is trying to...cover his lack of love...?

I never said knowledge is more important than God's love. I said Truth is more important. There's a big difference. You can read scripture to know the difference. Don't be too quick to judge. And I'm sticking to the subject of the initial OP of this thread if you read from the beginning again.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Ezra]

Haha! That was so confusing I'm not sure what you expect me to answer!

thats the mule looking at the new gate .then again if you dont understand mules you dont understand this concept

 

[Waiting on him]

thats the mule looking at the new gate .then again if you dont understand mules you dont understand this concept

I believe I would delete the last part of your post concerning the set up tech. It gives a lot of insight to as where your walk with Christ is. He resists the proud, and as to the Holy Ghost indweling, where does He go?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

he is talking to the Corinthian church / Christians a lost man can not experience God love out side of grace my whole point is the Bible does not say saved by Love

You get further and further off track. Grace means love, kindness, mercy. Grace does not mean: an undeserved gift (although grace can include a gift.)

The verse could be paraphrased, in my opinion, like this: You have been saved by Gods lovingkindness, through trust, and even that trust is not of yourselves, so no man can boast.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

thats the mule looking at the new gate .then again if you dont understand mules you dont understand this concept

Lol. Do you speak English?

 

[Waiting on him]

You get further and further off track. Grace means love, kindness, mercy. Grace does not mean: an undeserved gift (although grace can include a gift.)

The verse could be paraphrased, in my opinion, like this: You have been saved by Gods lovingkindness, through trust, and even that trust is not of yourselves, so no man can boast.

Romans 5:8 KJV
[8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Tecarta Bible

 

[CoreIssue]

Does the Bible say we are saved by Love or repentance via grace and faith.

Love is a fruit of salvation, not the cause of salvation.

You get further and further off track. Grace means love, kindness, mercy. Grace does not mean: an undeserved gift (although grace can include a gift.)

The verse could be paraphrased, in my opinion, like this: You have been saved by Gods lovingkindness, through trust, and even that trust is not of yourselves, so no man can boast.

Grace means unmerited gift. It does not mean love.

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 5485 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
cavriß from (5463)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Charis 9:372,1298
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
khar'-ece Noun Feminine
Definition

1. grace
   1. that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
2. good will, loving-kindness, favour
   1. of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues
3. what is due to grace
   1. the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace
   2. the token or proof of grace, benefit
      1. a gift of grace
      2. benefit, bounty
4. thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward

 

[CoreIssue]

thats the mule looking at the new gate .then again if you dont understand mules you dont understand this concept

I grew up on a farm. I understand mules and exactly what you mean.

I never said knowledge is more important than God's love. I said Truth is more important. There's a big difference. You can read scripture to know the difference. Don't be too quick to judge. And I'm sticking to the subject of the initial OP of this thread if you read from the beginning again.

Bless you,

APAK

Truth comes from knowledge. They go hand-in-hand.

How can somebody truly love if they don't know what why they love?

 

[Waiting on him]

Romans 5:8 KJV
[8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Tecarta Bible

So it’s very clear everything God does is founded in love, would anyone agree?

 

[Ezra]

Lol. Do you speak English?

what i thought you dont know anything about the mule looking at the new gate,,,,,,,,,yes i speak real good English the old mule is stubborn he does not always react to commands like he should.. he is hard headed he will balk . sometimes you have to use reverse physiology om them. <make them think its there idea> if you cant understand that.. read CoreIssue post . maybe your mule will understand lol i live in the country we use the expression like a mule looking at a new gate all the time or there a few bricks shy of a load

 

[Ezra]

So it’s very clear everything God does is founded in love, would anyone agree?

no body is denying Love i reject saved by Love it is his love that give us Grace .if you can show me a scripture that plainly says saved by Love .i would like to see it

 

[Waiting on him]

no body is denying Love i reject saved by Love it is his love that give us Grace .if you can show me a scripture that plainly says saved by Love .i would like to see it

You won’t find that verse but apon inspection of the word grace(unmerited favor) agape love(love without condition),are they not the same?

 

[Ezra]

Grace does not mean: an undeserved gift

are you %100 sure of this ? would it be your position you actually deserved to be saved .that even though you was lost on the road to hell .that you are special on your own merits you got saved ..i think you been stunned but not by grace . give scripture and definition to prove your point plz

 

[Ezra]

You won’t find that verse but apon inspection of the word grace(unmerited favor) agape love(love without condition),are they not the same?

at least you was honest enough for this {You won’t find that verse } this has Been my point all along your getting into ingredients by products my answer will be yes and no for this reason you cant have love you cant have grace without grace and love together .much like the trinity father- son -holy ghost each are separate but works together as one we can use words like Grace mercy love justification sanctification etc but leave one of these out you have nothing

 

[Waiting on him]

at least you was honest enough for this {You won’t find that verse } this has Been my point all along your getting into ingredients by products my answer will be yes and no for this reason you cant have love you cant have grace without grace and love together .much like the trinity father- son -holy ghost each are separate but works together as one we can use words like Grace mercy love justification sanctification etc but leave one of these out you have nothing

I agree, all is incapsulated in one package. Christ

 

[Ezra]

I agree, all is incapsulated in one package. Christ

bingo and agreement

 

[Ezra]

I believe I would delete the last part of your post concerning the set up tech. It gives a lot of insight to as where your walk with Christ is. He resists the proud, and as to the Holy Ghost indweling, where does He go?

do you do every thing perfect ? i dont hide anything like that my point isssssss i am saved born again blood bought child of the King i have a know so salvation !!!:) while your busy wanting to take the spec out of my eye ..answer this HAVE YOU EVER GOT ANGRY ? HAVE YOU EVER SINNED SINCE being saved . peter very much had the indwelling of the spirit he was convicted he wept judas on the other hand hung himself . what do you think the Holy spirit does ? john 16
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is expedient for you that I go away, for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you.

8 And when He is come, He will reprove the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment:

9 concerning sin, because they believe not in Me;

10 concerning righteousness, because I go to My Father and ye see Me no more;

11 concerning judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 However when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth; for He shall not speak from Himself, but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak; and He will show you things to come.

14 He shall glorify Me, for He shall receive of Mine, and shall show it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are Mine; therefore I said that He shall take of Mine, and shall show it unto you.

26 “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth who proceedeth from the Father, He shall

testify of Me.

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with Me from the beginning.

why do you think he wept? the Holy spirit that is in him pricked his heart .