Hi Retrobyter,
When Paul calls Christ 'the Seed' which was promised to Abraham, do you not 'see' that He is the word by which we are born into God's kingdom?
Peter says
1 Peter 1: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
John says
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Why do you think John moves from 'born ... of the will ... of God', directly to 'And the Word was made flesh'? The Word is the promised Seed.
Paul said, speaking of his preaching ministry - preaching the word of God...
Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Why does faith have anything to do with Israel?
Genesis 22:11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me ... 15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which isupon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Notice that Abraham's commendation from God was entirely abstract. It was because he had 'obeyed' His 'voice'.
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said,Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
In the whole of John's gospel, this is the only use of the word 'faith'.
What are 'they' going to 'believe'? They are going to believe the word of testimony from witnesses who have 'seen' something. (Us!)
The word is a seed which bears fruit in those who received it. (Jesus explained this in the parable of the sower.) The 'spiritual principle' which is contained in the seed, is eternal life to those whose hearts are good ground - or whose hearts become good ground. But there were two categories of 'heart' which Jesus mentioned: those who allowed - 1) the cares of the world, and 2) the deceitfulness of riches - to choke off the growth of the word.
Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
14 '... the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Please tell me you can see that unless we are in Christ, we are not 'Abraham's seed' (singular). If we not in Christ, we are not heirs to the promise.
John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Only days after the crucifixion of Christ, and His resurrection, the disciples had their commission confirmed to them by the Lord. Would you like to be told you were being sent on the same mission that got your Master crucified? That's what we're talking about. That has always been the deal.
Paul again,
Acts 26:4 My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; 5 Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. 6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: 7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. 8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?
1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
Isaiah 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. 15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: 16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
1 Peter 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, 2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
'I challenge ANYONE to show me a Scripture verse that proves there is a "spiritual seed'. Do you see it yet? As a representative 'anyone', I've shown a few connections, Peter himself referring to 'lively stones', 'spiritual house' and 'spiritual sacrifices'.
Can you see that there is a profound connection between the Word incarnate - the living word - and the incorruptible seed?
The seed which was in the fruit which Adam ate, has borne its own fruit in every succeeding generation. Only those who have died to that corrupted-fruit-bearing lifestyle, (bad trees bearing bad fruit being cut down) can begin to eat from the tree of life. Just as Adam made a decision - an abstract event with physical consequences - so also Israelites and Jews today have to make the decision to stop bearing corrupt fruit, and start bearing the good fruit of the Spirit, through being cut off from unbelief and grafted into the olive tree which is Christ, who is also the true Vine. His Father (our Father, the Father of spirits) is the husbandman.
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graff them in again.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Jeremiah 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
Christ the promised seed is also the holy firstfruit (from the dead) - the root - from whom all who are grafted in, now receive their life and identity.
James says
James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures... 21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
This is the spiritual principle in creation, which also works in us - His fruit-bearing branches - is of fruit containing seed which reproduces itself, first mentioned in Genesis.
Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament...'
- Christ in us, offering acceptable spiritual sacrifices Hebrews 13:15, 16 - word of life - good seed scattered by faith into the ground of hearts.
I really hope you can see that the seed of the word is spiritual, just as the law is spiritual.
And if we receive the Christ, the seed, by circumcision of the heart then...
Romans 8: '... what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus is a spiritual law, just like the law of sin and death and the law of faith. They are all 'laws of truth'. The above verses are only a tiny part of what more could be said to establish that the promised seed - Christ - produces His (spiritual) life in us.
Isaiah 40:5 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed,
and all flesh shall see it together:
for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
6 The voice said, Cry.
And he said, What shall I cry?
All flesh is grass,
and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:
7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth:
because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it:
surely the people is grass.
8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth:
but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
I am genuinely surprised to see this challenge from you, brother. :huh:
When Paul calls Christ 'the Seed' which was promised to Abraham, do you not 'see' that He is the word by which we are born into God's kingdom?
Peter says
1 Peter 1: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
John says
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Why do you think John moves from 'born ... of the will ... of God', directly to 'And the Word was made flesh'? The Word is the promised Seed.
Paul said, speaking of his preaching ministry - preaching the word of God...
Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Why does faith have anything to do with Israel?
Genesis 22:11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me ... 15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which isupon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Notice that Abraham's commendation from God was entirely abstract. It was because he had 'obeyed' His 'voice'.
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said,Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
In the whole of John's gospel, this is the only use of the word 'faith'.
What are 'they' going to 'believe'? They are going to believe the word of testimony from witnesses who have 'seen' something. (Us!)
The word is a seed which bears fruit in those who received it. (Jesus explained this in the parable of the sower.) The 'spiritual principle' which is contained in the seed, is eternal life to those whose hearts are good ground - or whose hearts become good ground. But there were two categories of 'heart' which Jesus mentioned: those who allowed - 1) the cares of the world, and 2) the deceitfulness of riches - to choke off the growth of the word.
Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
14 '... the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Please tell me you can see that unless we are in Christ, we are not 'Abraham's seed' (singular). If we not in Christ, we are not heirs to the promise.
John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Only days after the crucifixion of Christ, and His resurrection, the disciples had their commission confirmed to them by the Lord. Would you like to be told you were being sent on the same mission that got your Master crucified? That's what we're talking about. That has always been the deal.
Paul again,
Acts 26:4 My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; 5 Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. 6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: 7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. 8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?
1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
Isaiah 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. 15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: 16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
1 Peter 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, 2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
'I challenge ANYONE to show me a Scripture verse that proves there is a "spiritual seed'. Do you see it yet? As a representative 'anyone', I've shown a few connections, Peter himself referring to 'lively stones', 'spiritual house' and 'spiritual sacrifices'.
Can you see that there is a profound connection between the Word incarnate - the living word - and the incorruptible seed?
The seed which was in the fruit which Adam ate, has borne its own fruit in every succeeding generation. Only those who have died to that corrupted-fruit-bearing lifestyle, (bad trees bearing bad fruit being cut down) can begin to eat from the tree of life. Just as Adam made a decision - an abstract event with physical consequences - so also Israelites and Jews today have to make the decision to stop bearing corrupt fruit, and start bearing the good fruit of the Spirit, through being cut off from unbelief and grafted into the olive tree which is Christ, who is also the true Vine. His Father (our Father, the Father of spirits) is the husbandman.
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graff them in again.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Jeremiah 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
Christ the promised seed is also the holy firstfruit (from the dead) - the root - from whom all who are grafted in, now receive their life and identity.
James says
James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures... 21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
This is the spiritual principle in creation, which also works in us - His fruit-bearing branches - is of fruit containing seed which reproduces itself, first mentioned in Genesis.
Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament...'
- Christ in us, offering acceptable spiritual sacrifices Hebrews 13:15, 16 - word of life - good seed scattered by faith into the ground of hearts.
I really hope you can see that the seed of the word is spiritual, just as the law is spiritual.
And if we receive the Christ, the seed, by circumcision of the heart then...
Romans 8: '... what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus is a spiritual law, just like the law of sin and death and the law of faith. They are all 'laws of truth'. The above verses are only a tiny part of what more could be said to establish that the promised seed - Christ - produces His (spiritual) life in us.
Isaiah 40:5 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed,
and all flesh shall see it together:
for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
6 The voice said, Cry.
And he said, What shall I cry?
All flesh is grass,
and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:
7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth:
because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it:
surely the people is grass.
8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth:
but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
