The race is not to the swift,

[WalterandDebbie]

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Ecclesiastes 9:11

Ecclesiastes 9 KJV

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Holman Christian Standard Bible. According to the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Hebrews 9:22

 

[ScottA]

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Ecclesiastes 9:11

Unfortunately, this is the world we live in. Which is so, because it is fallen.

 

[bbyrd009]

so, perhaps missing the point there, too?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

so, perhaps missing the point there, too?

What point is there?

Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Unfortunately, this is the world we live in. Which is so, because it is fallen.

And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Daniel 11:32

 

[bbyrd009]

What point is there?

Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

"the law requires" should be a clue there? but i haven't been to Hebs in a minute now, is there some language around the v contrasting it with grace, for instance? i think there is, yes? So anyway i agree categorically, the law requires blood, yes.

ah ok, that one, yes, you might see that Christ was mediating a new covenant, but He had to fulfill the old one first?

And fwiw i was prolly out of line over there earlier @ "blood," lots of great and humble ppl i know lean on that perception too ok, i just sometimes feel the need to go too far on purpose, in order that a more centered understanding can be heard.

a church instituted by men can only teach what men approve, and imo Law is not a dirty word, everyone needs to learn the Law first imo. The transition to grace--which i still mostly only anticipate myself, ok, i still "have to" do stuff, sometimes--is never a comfortable or pleasant one, i guess.

 

[bbyrd009]

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Unfortunately, this is the world we live in. Which is so, because it is fallen.

What point is there?

anyway, to reply to this part, i was just struck by how Scott perceived this passage, and as i have virtually no witness or Scripture provided for his pov yet, i was hoping to elicit more here, as my reaction is so different, more along the lines of awesome or at least highly interesting, with distinct overtones of validation for not striving to come in "first place" in running Paul's "race," and now that i marinate here for a second, i'm pretty sure all of the other phrases in there could be tied to important vv somewhere else, the battle (not going) to the strong, obvious ref to Hebrew victories OT, etc

 

[bbyrd009]

And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Daniel 11:32

wow, nice

 

[ScottA]

anyway, to reply to this part, i was just struck by how Scott perceived this passage, and as i have virtually no witness or Scripture provided for his pov yet, i was hoping to elicit more here, as my reaction is so different, more along the lines of awesome or at least highly interesting, with distinct overtones of validation for not striving to come in "first place" in running Paul's "race," and now that i marinate here for a second, i'm pretty sure all of the other phrases in there could be tied to important vv somewhere else, the battle (not going) to the strong, obvious ref to Hebrew victories OT, etc

What is your reaction to the passage, that is different? What would you say about it?

 

[bbyrd009]

What is your reaction to the passage, that is different? What would you say about it?

well, "awesome or at least very interesting," iow not "unfortunately" at all, although don't get me wrong you could likely make a dialectic case for "unfortunately" too ok, i don't know.

Um, iow i see exploits being explained, if that makes any sense

 

[WalterandDebbie]

How can believers be in the world, but not of the world?

 

[ScottA]

well, "awesome or at least very interesting," iow not "unfortunately" at all, although don't get me wrong you could likely make a dialectic case for "unfortunately" too ok, i don't know.

Um, iow i see exploits being explained, if that makes any sense

Just from a personal standpoint, it seems like conformed criminals being thrown in with career criminals who don't want it any other way.

 

[bbyrd009]

Just from a personal standpoint, it seems like conformed criminals being thrown in with career criminals who don't want it any other way.

hmm. what seems like conformed criminals etcetc? did you mean "reformed" criminals? so i need a rephrase here, ty

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

 

[ScottA]

hmm. what seems like conformed criminals etcetc? did you mean "reformed" criminals? so i need a rephrase here, ty

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Yeah, yeah - I meant "re"formed. Although the act of "conforming" (coming under) does kinda work too.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yeah, yeah - I meant "re"formed. Although the act of "conforming" (coming under) does kinda work too.

i take it more as a confession of the way God sees to it that truth will win out, without Him having to do anything more than He has already done (it is finished). And don't take this wrong ok, but this is another reveal of your perspective to me, by which i don't mean bad or wrong...just there are more than one way to perceive matters. I would even be interested in an expansion of your thesis there, i only kinda see it.

 

[ScottA]

i take it more as a confession of the way God sees to it that truth will win out, without Him having to do anything more than He has already done (it is finished). And don't take this wrong ok, but this is another reveal of your perspective to me, by which i don't mean bad or wrong...just there are more than one way to perceive matters. I would even be interested in an expansion of your thesis there, i only kinda see it.

"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all."

This simply denotes the curse and the result of our freewill choice that was made in the presence of God (which was before the foundation of the world). Out of the world comes those who "endure" the death sentence, and they are "raised up", which means: not left here, but returned to God. Those who are not raised in the same way, are raised in the way of "all" being changed in the spirit (for the body returns to the dust, and the earth passes away), but each to their different eternal destiny.

But, again, that is not to say that time is the measure of what has occurred or does occur in eternity - just the opposite. But we speak of it (just as it is written), that men who are captives of time, may perceive all things as they are revealed to them, which is over the course of time and the curse thereof.

 

[bbyrd009]

"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all."

This simply denotes the curse and the result of our freewill choice that was made in the presence of God (which was before the foundation of the world). Out of the world comes those who "endure" the death sentence, and they are "raised up", which means: not left here, but returned to God. Those who are not raised in the same way, are raised in the way of "all" being changed in the spirit (for the body returns to the dust, and the earth passes away), but each to their different eternal destiny.

But, again, that is not to say that time is the measure of what has occurred or does occur in eternity - just the opposite. But we speak of it (just as it is written), that men who are captives of time, may perceive all things as they are revealed to them, which is over the course of time and the curse thereof.

ok, must be for someone else i guess, and btw can't find the post now, but you mentioned earlier that you had been paraphrasing the Bible all along, and i kind of disputed that, bc you gotta make the connection first imo. i mean, i love Scripture paraphrased into IRL, where imo It belongs, but you have to establish that you are paraphrasing Scripture in situ or the thought gets rejected or whatever i guess.

 

[bbyrd009]

This simply denotes the curse and the result of our freewill choice that was made in the presence of God (which was before the foundation of the world).

see this might be true in a sense of predestination, but i do not have the perspective of God, while you seem to advertise that you do, and i do not believe that you do. Post some Rhema and show me why i cannot really change my mind in real time, which does exist on this plane, where we are called to manifest the kingdom, God's Creation, where time will always exist, even if clocks will not

 

[bbyrd009]

Out of the world comes those who "endure" the death sentence, and they are "raised up", which means: not left here, but returned to God.

"all go to the same place"

 

[bbyrd009]

and the earth passes away

this world is passing away, and imo you are forcing an interpretation at "heaven and earth will pass away" that is not intended. Yes, in 50 billion years the earth will pass away too, no doubt, but that becomes irrelevant to today, and effectively even to tomorrow, see