The Rapture and the Tribulation - Short

[WitnessX]

I've been on the other side of this argument and made the same accusation to someone. Needless to say, I found out I was wrong.

I don't know anything about the dead sea scrolls.

So what year did Herod the Great die?

Go do the work yourself, that way you learn it.

A note to that, there are gnostic scrolls that are claimed to be from the Dead Sea, such as the gospel of Thomas, those are from Egypt, not Qumran And are heresy.

 

[The Light]

Go do the work yourself, that way you learn it.

I've already done the work, so I know that Christ died in 30AD. I was hoping you would do some work so you would learn. I see you said Christ died in 32AD give or take on a different thread. 32AD does not work because of when Passover falls.

A note to that, the Temple doors opened every night without explanation for 40 years, from 30AD to 70AD.

 

[Douggg]

I've already done the work, so I know that Christ died in 30AD. I was hoping you would do some work so you would learn. I see you said Christ died in 32AD give or take on a different thread. 32AD does not work because of when Passover falls.

A note to that, the Temple doors opened every night without explanation for 40 years, from 30AD to 70AD.

Whether 30AD or 32AD, the important thing is that Jesus as the king of Israel messiah arrived in Jerusalem riding a donkey, hailed as such. And 4 days later was crucified on Passover eve, as the Lamb of God, and by Jesus's death on the cross our sins are atoned for.

The 70th week remains unfulfilled. But close. Jesus's return will be before the end of 2037. Parable of the fig tree generation. Jerusalem as the fig tree, back in the hand of the Jews in 1967. 1967+70 years =2037.

 

[WitnessX]

I've already done the work, so I know that Christ died in 30AD. I was hoping you would do some work so you would learn. I see you said Christ died in 32AD give or take on a different thread. 32AD does not work because of when Passover falls.

A note to that, the Temple doors opened every night without explanation for 40 years, from 30AD to 70AD.

Not if you know nothing of the Dead Sea scrolls. They give clues, edification, and further understanding to the scripture. They don’t supplant scripture but they can provide clarification, and they do. Don’t miss Him by 18” inches.

Bottom line is Jesus is coming back, make sure you’re watching and pray that you are found worthy. God Bless with all peace and love.

 

[The Light]

Whether 30AD or 32AD, the important thing is that Jesus as the king of Israel messiah arrived in Jerusalem riding a donkey, hailed as such. And 4 days later was crucified on Passover eve, as the Lamb of God, and by Jesus's death on the cross our sins are atoned for.

It doesn't work that way Douggg. These are exact to the day calculations. You need to find the correct decree and then count the exact days of 69 weeks to Messiah the prince. Meaning you just can't grab an event such as Jesus riding on a donkey being hailed as Messiah and expect the calculation to work out for any year you choose. Each calculation brings you to an exact date which is an exact year.

For instance, you can grab a particular decree to rebuild Jerusalem and count to days to a date. For the specific calculation of Jesus riding a donkey into Jerusalem this will work for the year 33AD........but no other year. And for this specific calculation to work you need to convert prophetic years to actual years. You can arrive at Jesus riding a donkey into Jerusalem in 33 AD. Then He is crucified 4 days later. The problem with this calculation is that though it appears correct it is not. We can prove that from one of the Gospels in Luke showing that there are actually two Passover dates as Passover hits and then the Sabath follows. It is a High Sabbath where the Passover meal is celebrated again.

Anyway, you just can't pick an event of any year, the calculation has to work where from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to Messiah the prince.

The calculation that works is Jesus died in 30AD.

The 70th week remains unfulfilled. But close.

The first 3.5 years of the 70th week have already occurred.

But there is still a 7-year period from when a covenant with many is made. We can't be sure when this happens as the covenant needs to be confirmed by the Antichrist. In other words, the covenant can be made starting the final 7 years but we won't know that for sure until the covenant is confirmed by the Antichrist.

Jesus's return will be before the end of 2037. Parable of the fig tree generation. Jerusalem as the fig tree, back in the hand of the Jews in 1967. 1967+70 years =2037.

I believe the fig tree generation is 2028.

1948 + 80 years = 2028

 

[WPM]

It doesn't work that way Douggg. These are exact to the day calculations. You need to find the correct decree and then count the exact days of 69 weeks to Messiah the prince. Meaning you just can't grab an event such as Jesus riding on a donkey being hailed as Messiah and expect the calculation to work out for any year you choose. Each calculation brings you to an exact date which is an exact year.

For instance, you can grab a particular decree to rebuild Jerusalem and count to days to a date. For the specific calculation of Jesus riding a donkey into Jerusalem this will work for the year 33AD........but no other year. And for this specific calculation to work you need to convert prophetic years to actual years. You can arrive at Jesus riding a donkey into Jerusalem in 33 AD. Then He is crucified 4 days later. The problem with this calculation is that though it appears correct it is not. We can prove that from one of the Gospels in Luke showing that there are actually two Passover dates as Passover hits and then the Sabath follows. It is a High Sabbath where the Passover meal is celebrated again.

Anyway, you just can't pick an event of any year, the calculation has to work where from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to Messiah the prince.

The calculation that works is Jesus died in 30AD.


The first 3.5 years of the 70th week have already occurred.

But there is still a 7-year period from when a covenant with many is made. We can't be sure when this happens as the covenant needs to be confirmed by the Antichrist. In other words, the covenant can be made starting the final 7 years but we won't know that for sure until the covenant is confirmed by the Antichrist.

I believe the fig tree generation is 2028.

1948 + 80 years = 2028

Not true!

History shows that the 490 years were linear, congruent and sequential. Those of us that take 490 years to mean exactly that do not have to prove that it is harmonious; we just have to accept what it states. We take it literally (1) because it happened literally, (2) there is no command to decapitate it and project it into the unknown. Seven multiplied by seventy comes to 490 cohesive unitary years, not 2,500 broken up years and counting. The clincher is: there is no gap mentioned in the prophecy so there is no need or warrant to insert one in there.

 

[Douggg]

It doesn't work that way Douggg. These are exact to the day calculations. You need to find the correct decree and then count the exact days of 69 weeks to Messiah the prince. Meaning you just can't grab an event such as Jesus riding on a donkey being hailed as Messiah and expect the calculation to work out for any year you choose. Each calculation brings you to an exact date which is an exact year.

I am not declaring what year that Jesus rode into Jerusalem riding a donkey, hailed as the king of Israel messiah.

I am going by the text of the four gospels as the basis for fulfillment for the arrival of the messiah and his being cutoff. 4 days between his arrival, hailed as the messian and then being cutoff is not a calculation. It is what the four gospels declare happened.

The 70th week is still unfilled and will begin when the prince that shall come confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years.

I believe the fig tree generation is 2028.

1948 + 80 years = 2028

The fig tree generation will see Jesus's return.

Jesus will return at the end of the 7 years.

So, 2028 minus 7 years = 2021. The 7 years did not start in 2021. The 7 years have not started yet.

The 7 years will start sometime before the end of 2030. The 7 years will begin following the Gog/Magog event.

 

[WPM]

The fig tree generation will see Jesus's return.

Jesus will return at the end of the 7 years.

So, 2028 minus 7 years = 2021. The 7 years did not start in 2021. The 7 years have not started yet.

The 7 years will start sometime before the end of 2030. The 7 years will begin following the Gog/Magog event.

Typical Dispensatanist date-setting. Your colleagues have been doing this for years and ending up with egg on their face.

 

[The Light]

Not true!

History shows that the 490 years were linear, congruent and sequential. Those of us that take 490 years to mean exactly that do not have to prove that it is harmonious; we just have to accept what it states. We take it literally (1) because it happened literally, (2) there is no command to decapitate it and project it into the unknown. Seven multiplied by seventy comes to 490 cohesive unitary years, not 2,500 broken up years and counting. The clincher is: there is no gap mentioned in the prophecy so there is no need or warrant to insert one in there.

No gap. Messiah is cut off after 69 weeks.

The time is very short now. To those who look for Him will He appear a second time.

 

[The Light]

The 70th week is still unfilled and will begin when the prince that shall come confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years.

No. It is a covenant with many that he confirms.

The fig tree generation will see Jesus's return.

Ok.

Jesus will return at the end of the 7 years.

Yes He will. He will also come for the Church. And then He will come for the second fold which is the twelve tribes across the earth.

So, 2028 minus 7 years = 2021. The 7 years did not start in 2021.

2030 minus 7 years is 2023.

The fig tree generation would be 2028

1948 + 80 = 2028

The 7 years have not started yet.

How do you know this?

The 7 years will start sometime before the end of 2030.

More likely to be over in 2030 than beginning. But we will have to wait for a covenant with many to be confirmed before we can say.

The 7 years will begin following the Gog/Magog event.

Gog Magog happens after the 1000 years.

 

[Marilyn C]

No. It is a covenant with many that he confirms.


Ok.

Yes He will. He will also come for the Church. And then He will come for the second fold which is the twelve tribes across the earth.

2030 minus 7 years is 2023.

The fig tree generation would be 2028

1948 + 80 = 2028


How do you know this?

More likely to be over in 2030 than beginning. But we will have to wait for a covenant with many to be confirmed before we can say.


Gog Magog happens after the 1000 years.

The first northern army (gog and magog) is the Russian Federation being brought down to the Golan Heights by God to be judged. (Joel 2: 1 & 2 Ez. 38) That is the start of the Day of the LORD (God in judgment) . We, the Body of Christ are not in that time. (1 Thess. 5: 4 & 5)

 

[Douggg]

2030 minus 7 years is 2023.

The fig tree generation would be 2028

1948 + 80 = 2028

Why would you subtract 7 from 2030 ?

I think you mean that the fig tree generation would pass away by 2028. Therefore, I am pointing out to you that the 7 years would have had to begun in 2021. Which it did not.

How do you know this?

Because the 7 years begin following the Gog/Magog event. The 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9.

Gog/Magog has not happened yet.

Take a look at my thread to see how things fit together. I just posted it.

"End times time frames by chapter and fit"

More likely to be over in 2030 than beginning. But we will have to wait for a covenant with many to be confirmed before we can say.

The seven years have not begun yet. It will be a major event, which the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle that Moses stipulated in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

The many is not referring to many nations. The many is referring to the population of Israel will be much greater than it was in Daniel's time when he received the prophecy.

Gog Magog happens after the 1000 years.

No, the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 is for the latter years, latter days, when the Jews have come out to the nations and Israel a nation again.

The Gog/Magog referral in Revelation 20, after the 1000 years, is indicating that the same nations that made up Gog/Magog attack on Israel a 1000 years earlier will participate in attacking Israel again.

 

[The Light]

The first northern army (gog and magog) is the Russian Federation being brought down to the Golan Heights by God to be judged. (Joel 2: 1 & 2 Ez. 38) That is the start of the Day of the LORD (God in judgment) . We, the Body of Christ are not in that time. (1 Thess. 5: 4 & 5)

Gog Magog happens after the 1000 years.

Revelation 20
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

[The Light]

Why would you subtract 7 from 2030 ?

Ezekiel 4

I think you mean that the fig tree generation would pass away by 2028.

Yes. 1948 + 80 = 2028

Therefore, I am pointing out to you that the 7 years would have had to begun in 2021. Which it did not.

2023 is still in play.

Because the 7 years begin following the Gog/Magog event. The 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9.

Gog Magog happens at the end of the millennial reign.

Gog/Magog has not happened yet.

And won't for a 1000 years plus.

Take a look at my thread to see how things fit together. I just posted it.

"End times time frames by chapter and fit"

ok

The seven years have not begun yet. It will be a major event, which the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle that Moses stipulated in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

We don't know if the 7 years has begun or not.

The many is not referring to many nations. The many is referring to the population of Israel will be much greater than it was in Daniel's time when he received the prophecy.

Many equals many people equals many nations.

No, the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 is for the latter years, latter days, when the Jews have come out to the nations and Israel a nation again.

The Gog/Magog referral in Revelation 20, after the 1000 years, is indicating that the same nations that made up Gog/Magog attack on Israel a 1000 years earlier will participate in attacking Israel again.

I don't buy it. There is no time for Gog Magog to happen now. Additionally we would wipe out Russia in no time. China is the concern.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not true!

History shows that the 490 years were linear, congruent and sequential. Those of us that take 490 years to mean exactly that do not have to prove that it is harmonious; we just have to accept what it states. We take it literally (1) because it happened literally, (2) there is no command to decapitate it and project it into the unknown. Seven multiplied by seventy comes to 490 cohesive unitary years, not 2,500 broken up years and counting. The clincher is: there is no gap mentioned in the prophecy so there is no need or warrant to insert one in there.

Right. A 490 year time period was given during which all of the things described in Daniel 9;24 had to be fulfilled and during which the covenant referenced in Daniel 9:27 had to be confirmed. There is no basis whatsoever for inserting a gap of time within the 490 years anywhere.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No gap. Messiah is cut off after 69 weeks.

The time is very short now. To those who look for Him will He appear a second time.

You add a gap between the middle of the 70th week and the second half of the 70th week.

 

[The Light]

You add a gap between the middle of the 70th week and the second half of the 70th week.

Of course, Messiah is cut off in the middle of the 70th week.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Of course, Messiah is cut off in the middle of the 70th week.

Why did you say "no gap" when you do believe there is a gap after the middle of the 70th week?

 

[Marilyn C]

Gog Magog happens after the 1000 years.

Revelation 20
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Yes, that is a Gog and Magog war, however, there is the first one before the trib. (Joel 2:1 & 2 Ez. 38)

 

[The Light]

Yes, that is a Gog and Magog war, however, there is the first one before the trib. (Joel 2:1 & 2 Ez. 38)

There is only one Gog Magog war. It happens after the 1000 years.

You list Joel 2:1 and say it is before the tribulation. Joel 2 is about the Day of the Lord which occurs after the tribulation. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The Day of the Lord is part of the wrath of God, and it occurs during the 7th seal.

Ezekiel 38 occurs after the 1000 years when Israel is an unwalled village.

Ezekiel 38
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

There is no time for a Gog Magog war to occur during our current times.