The Rapture is Post-trib

[No Pre-TB]

i did about a million times.
You most likely poo pooed em like the following ones.

I’m sorry. I did not view every post you’ve made on this site. In regards to them being posted 1 million times, which I’ve not seen, thank you for posting a few for me. Please give me some time to review before I respond.

This is conduct unbecoming a Christian when you reference derogatory words on a Christian site as a self professed Christian to another brother even if we may or may not have a disagreement. Arnt we supposed to bridle our tongues? Can we talk about spiritual things without adding human waste and potty talk?

 

[Timtofly]

LOL. It's aspostasy to interpret the order of the book differently than you? LOL!!! You say some of the most foolish things I've ever seen in my life. That is NOT adding to the book at all. That is completely ridiculous. It's interpreting it differently than you do and nothing more.

Don't you acknowledge that the things described in Revelation 12 such as the birth and ascension of Christ, do not follow what is described at the end of Revelation 11? You have before. So, even you acknowledge that part of the book is not chronological. Are you adding to the book by drawing that conclusion about Revelation 11 and 12? Of course not. So, that's not the case for those of us who see other parts of the book as not being chronological as well.

Not what I said. But you certainly put your own spin quite well on the topic. There are parenthetical chapters in the book of Revelation. I guess if you change the book to say exactly what you understand, God will forgive you, even though John wrote otherwise. I mean you do seem to accept you will be judged along with everyone else on the earth, up until the very end. Even consumed by fire along with all those rebels. Since you claim everything is burned up, including those rebels, or you are killed by those rebels as the fire comes down at the same time. Your interpretation is pretty vague, there, but I am sure you won't mind me changing your words, slightly to fit a common sense understanding. Since you think God does not mind you inserting your own chronological order into His Word. What is wrong with a few tweaks here and there?

 

[Timtofly]

That's the question you need to answer, not me. I'm not the one who thinks billions of people will somehow all travel to one earthly city as if they could all fit there. How would they all get there? Do you even think about these things?

I explained, they don't get there. They are consumed by fire before anything happens. God is quite capable of destroying His enemy just by knowing the intent of their desires. How close they get to that beloved city is a guess, but obviously no one ever arrives. Yet you claim they march across the street and evidently butcher billions more people and then are consumed by fire, just because they killed people. And the whole world goes up in a puff of smoke at the same time.

So you think only a couple thousand people get raptured? So as to not clog up the meeting place in the air? You don't think Revelation 7:9 is overpopulated with billions, only a few hundred thousand?

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

How did they all stand there?

You don't think billions of humans can live in a city that is 1200 miles wide, as well as 1200 miles long, as well as 1200 miles high? Not big enough for you, or you think everyone lives in a symbolic realm and there is nothing physical at all? All souls are attached to a virtual simulation? They just think they exist in the physical?

 

[No Pre-TB]

Matt 25 .10 virgins
mat 24. The 2 vivid comings.
The last supper dialogue
The 2 escape verses.
The CONTEXT of the pretrib rapture verses of peacetime and normal life of activities and commerce.
( that alone destroys all but pretrib rapture)
Rev 14. ( 3 gatherings)

@David in NJ
First, I will respond to the ones I think you are identifying since you did not leave verses on some and chapter/verses on others. For this reason, I'd ask you to please cite the Ch. and verse for Pre-Tb rapture verses for the ones you laid out below so that I may respond to them.
1. Matthew 24. The 2 vivid comings.
2. The 2 escape verses.
3. The context of the pretrib rapture verses of peacetime and normal life of activities and commerce.
(that alone destroys all but pretrib rapture)
4. Rev 14. ( 3 gatherings)

For #4, I think you are referring to the harvest as 2 gatherings, but you labeled it as 3. Please just cite the verses you are suggesting.

Now that I have addressed current inadequacies so that I may properly respond, I will now reply to your suggestion that Matthew 25, regarding the 10 virgins, is an image of a Pre-TB rapture. I will also add into this discussion "the last supper dialogue".

Without sounding redundant of how many virgins there are and the differences between them (as you already know), I will skip to verse 5 and begin there.

While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Why was the cry made at midnight? Midnight is and was a time when everyone was asleep. It is also a time when darkness is at its height.
The requirement to see at such a dark hour would depend upon burning lamps. Doesn't Amos 5:20 say,

Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

How could the cry at midnight represent a time when darkness did not envelope the land? Pre-TB would have us in heaven at Ch.4, but according to this, darkness isn't here, the seal's haven't been opened, the trumpets haven't blown, the bowls haven't been poured out, Christ has not even ascended to heaven as a lamb slain to accept the scroll, the 5th seal martyrs haven't cried out to God asking for his wrath to begin and the earth dwellers haven't announced his wrath has now begun and somehow, though Pre-TB says all this time is wrath (1st seal on), the 144k haven't been sealed for protection till after the 6th seal had been opened.

The midnight hour in this parable identifies His unexpected late arrival in complete darkness. Not a rapture in the light of day before the Day of the Lord. With that said, let me turn to 1 Thessalonians 5.

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

If the Day of the Lord will not overtake us because we are children of the light, and the same day overtakes the wicked, the passage above demonstrates we are not removed from the day of darkness. For those in darkness, they cannot see when the thief comes to rob them. For those with light, the thief does not surprise them. They are prepared with lamps and oil to outlast the entire duration. Wasn't that the issue with the other 5 virgins? They did not have enough oil to go the distance.

And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

The other part of the parable I'd like to focus on is this.

And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut

The word used for marriage is gámos – (figuratively) the Marriage Supper of the Lamb which begins with Christ glorifying all the saints (OT, NT) at His return.

It's important to recognize they go into a wedding feast because the Lord's supper alludes to this. In Matthew 26:29, Christ said,

But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

For Christ to be drinking the wine, he must be reigning over the Kingdoms of the Earth. This will be fulfilled when Christ reigns as King over the nations, in his Kingdom, and He treads the grapes of wrath at the Wedding feast.

1. Rev 19:6 - Christ reigns over the earth. Also found as the 7th trumpet Rev 11:15-18
2. Rev 19:7 - The marriage feast has come. This ties in the wedding feast of the 10 virgins and the Lord's supper being in his Kingdom.
3. Rev 19:7-8 - The bride has made herself ready and now she was granted to wear white linen. She was not ready, married or wearing white linen any time before this and to suggest she is somehow raptured into Heaven before the 1st seal and made ready then and given white linen s impossible with this. The context doesn't allow it.

Barnes: And his wife hath made herself ready - By putting on her beautiful apparel and ornaments. All the preparations had been made for a permanent and uninterrupted union with its Redeemer, and the church was henceforward to be recognized as his beautiful bride, and was no more to appear as a decorated harlot

Directly after the 7th trumpet sounds, the dead are judged and we are rewarded at Christ glorious coming. That is the marriage to the bride in the time of darkness. Immediately after this, before the 1st bowl is poured on the wicked (Rev 11:18 - and destroy those that destroy the earth) the door is shut. (Rev 15:8)

Job 14:12 tells us through the HS,

So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

2 Peter says in this regard,

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The resurrection will not precede the Day of the Lord. Job makes it clear. 2 Timothy 4:1 makes it clear it happens when Christ reigns as did the Wedding feast. Isaiah 25 makes it clear it happens in the mountain of God.

Now, I'm running out of room on this page to type so I will relent here and wait for your reply on my previous questions.

 

[David in NJ]

@David in NJ
First, I will respond to the ones I think you are identifying since you did not leave verses on some and chapter/verses on others. For this reason, I'd ask you to please cite the Ch. and verse for Pre-Tb rapture verses for the ones you laid out below so that I may respond to them.
1. Matthew 24. The 2 vivid comings.
2. The 2 escape verses.
3. The context of the pretrib rapture verses of peacetime and normal life of activities and commerce.
(that alone destroys all but pretrib rapture)
4. Rev 14. ( 3 gatherings)

For #4, I think you are referring to the harvest as 2 gatherings, but you labeled it as 3. Please just cite the verses you are suggesting.

Now that I have addressed current inadequacies so that I may properly respond, I will now reply to your suggestion that Matthew 25, regarding the 10 virgins, is an image of a Pre-TB rapture. I will also add into this discussion "the last supper dialogue".

Without sounding redundant of how many virgins there are and the differences between them (as you already know), I will skip to verse 5 and begin there.

While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Why was the cry made at midnight? Midnight is and was a time when everyone was asleep. It is also a time when darkness is at its height.
The requirement to see at such a dark hour would depend upon burning lamps. Doesn't Amos 5:20 say,

Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

How could the cry at midnight represent a time when darkness did not envelope the land? Pre-TB would have us in heaven at Ch.4, but according to this, darkness isn't here, the seal's haven't been opened, the trumpets haven't blown, the bowls haven't been poured out, Christ has not even ascended to heaven as a lamb slain to accept the scroll, the 5th seal martyrs haven't cried out to God asking for his wrath to begin and the earth dwellers haven't announced his wrath has now begun and somehow, though Pre-TB says all this time is wrath (1st seal on), the 144k haven't been sealed for protection till after the 6th seal had been opened.

The midnight hour in this parable identifies His unexpected late arrival in complete darkness. Not a rapture in the light of day before the Day of the Lord. With that said, let me turn to 1 Thessalonians 5.

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

If the Day of the Lord will not overtake us because we are children of the light, and the same day overtakes the wicked, the passage above demonstrates we are not removed from the day of darkness. For those in darkness, they cannot see when the thief comes to rob them. For those with light, the thief does not surprise them. They are prepared with lamps and oil to outlast the entire duration. Wasn't that the issue with the other 5 virgins? They did not have enough oil to go the distance.

And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

The other part of the parable I'd like to focus on is this.

And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut

The word used for marriage is gámos – (figuratively) the Marriage Supper of the Lamb which begins with Christ glorifying all the saints (OT, NT) at His return.

It's important to recognize they go into a wedding feast because the Lord's supper alludes to this. In Matthew 26:29, Christ said,

But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

For Christ to be drinking the wine, he must be reigning over the Kingdoms of the Earth. This will be fulfilled when Christ reigns as King over the nations, in his Kingdom, and He treads the grapes of wrath at the Wedding feast.

1. Rev 19:6 - Christ reigns over the earth. Also found as the 7th trumpet Rev 11:15-18
2. Rev 19:7 - The marriage feast has come. This ties in the wedding feast of the 10 virgins and the Lord's supper being in his Kingdom.
3. Rev 19:7-8 - The bride has made herself ready and now she was granted to wear white linen. She was not ready, married or wearing white linen any time before this and to suggest she is somehow raptured into Heaven before the 1st seal and made ready then and given white linen s impossible with this. The context doesn't allow it.

Barnes: And his wife hath made herself ready - By putting on her beautiful apparel and ornaments. All the preparations had been made for a permanent and uninterrupted union with its Redeemer, and the church was henceforward to be recognized as his beautiful bride, and was no more to appear as a decorated harlot

Directly after the 7th trumpet sounds, the dead are judged and we are rewarded at Christ glorious coming. That is the marriage to the bride in the time of darkness. Immediately after this, before the 1st bowl is poured on the wicked (Rev 11:18 - and destroy those that destroy the earth) the door is shut. (Rev 15:8)

Job 14:12 tells us through the HS,

So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

2 Peter says in this regard,

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The resurrection will not precede the Day of the Lord. Job makes it clear. 2 Timothy 4:1 makes it clear it happens when Christ reigns as did the Wedding feast. Isaiah 25 makes it clear it happens in the mountain of God.

Now, I'm running out of room on this page to type so I will relent here and wait for your reply on my previous questions.

i would make one change/adjustment.

Rev 6:9-11 correlates to Rev 19:7-8

 

[No Pre-TB]

i would make one change/adjustment.

Rev 6:9-11 correlates to Rev 19:7-8

Are you referring to where they go when answered or the vengeance they seek?

 

[David in NJ]

Are you referring to where they go when answered or the vengeance they seek?

A.) God says more will die and be added to them - therefore no Resurrection can take place until it is "Completed"

B.) White robes given while they wait = when the Bride is "Completed" all are clothed = "She has made herself ready"

C.) Their desire for vengeance upon their adversaries will ONLY be concluded upon Christ's Second Coming = 1 Thess ch3 & 2 Thess ch1

"She has made Herself ready" = Rev ch14 "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."

 

[No Pre-TB]

A.) God says more will die and be added to them - therefore no Resurrection can take place until it is "Completed"

B.) White robes given while they wait = when the Bride is "Completed" all are clothed = "She has made herself ready"

C.) Their desire for vengeance upon their adversaries will ONLY be concluded upon Christ's Second Coming = 1 Thess ch3 & 2 Thess ch1

"She has made Herself ready" = Rev ch14 "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."

A) True
B) True
C) I understand your point here, but I see their vengeance fulfilled when Babylon is destroyed. I can explain further if needed. Some verses: Jeremiah 51:6, Rev 18:20-21 (show Babylon's destruction answers the 5th seal martyrs prayer), Jeremiah 51:25, Jeremiah 61:63-64
I see Babylon destroyed at the 2nd Trumpet per those verses and it's chronology in Rev 14 after the 144k and after warning that his judgment has come but before the mark of the beast.

 

[David in NJ]

A) True
B) True
C) I understand your point here, but I see their vengeance fulfilled when Babylon is destroyed. I can explain further if needed. Some verses: Jeremiah 51:6, Rev 18:20-21 (show Babylon's destruction answers the 5th seal martyrs prayer), Jeremiah 51:25, Jeremiah 61:63-64
I see Babylon destroyed at the 2nd Trumpet per those verses and it's chronology in Rev 14 after the 144k and after warning that his judgment has come but before the mark of the beast.

Rev 18:24 - "And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”

The Beast, False Prophet and the MoB is part of Babylon.

Revelation 5th Seal will not be completed until the LORD'S Second Coming (or just immediately before).

The Bride of Christ in Rev ch19 will not be "Complete" until ALL whom God calls out of the world = Matthew ch24

"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."

Babylon continues until the End(or immediately prior to His Second Coming) - thus we see Babylons judgment connected to Rev ch19


This is the announcement after Babylon is judged (Rev ch18) is directly connected to Rev ch19
After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! 2For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” 3Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!” 4And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!” 5Then a voice came from the throne, saying, “Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!”
6And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For theLord God Omnipotent reigns! 7Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.


This verifies that the 5th Seal is not completed until ALL are brought into Christ whom the FATHER calls.

 

[No Pre-TB]

The Beast, False Prophet and the MoB is part of Babylon.

I don't see it that way because the 10 horns on the beast of the sea burn Babylon with fire. That makes the beast and false prophet separate from her. Rev 17:16

The Bride of Christ in Rev ch19 will not be "Complete" until ALL whom God calls out of the world = Matthew ch24

True

Babylon continues until the End(or immediately prior to His Second Coming) - thus we see Babylons judgment connected to Rev ch19

Babylon is fallen in Rev 14 before the mark is introduced. Notice in Rev 19, it is fallen even before the 7th trumpet when Christ reigns.

for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

Because Babylon is shown in Rev 19 to fall before Christ reign, it is evident it falls before the 7th trumpet. When we look at Rev 14, Babylon falls before the mark but after the angel warns of impeding judgment. The judgement doesnt go forth till the angel scatters fire over the earth before the 1st trumpet is blown. That marker places Babylon's destruction between the 1st trumpet and the 6th. But it also has to precede the mark and that cannot happen till the man of sin institutes it. If you looked at Rev 18:21, it said,

And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

The idea of a stone being thrown into the sea explaining that Babylon will never rise again. When we view the 2nd trumpet, it mimicks it:

it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea:

The idea of a mountain being thrown into the sea was that itll never rise again. Mountains were figurative of Kingdoms.

Example 1: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth
Example 2: O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

In the 2nd example, the mountain was Babylon and it was a burnt mountain on fire. This burning mountain that cast into the sea to never rise again will be mystery Babylon.

This verifies that the 5th Seal is not completed until ALL are brought into Christ whom the FATHER calls.

I agree the 5th seal will not be completed to all are to die for the Lord and will be resurrected at the last day. With the exception, those who are alive and survived - to the rapture.

 

[David in NJ]

L

I don't see it that way because the 10 horns on the beast of the sea burn Babylon with fire. That makes the beast and false prophet separate from her. Rev 17:16


True

Babylon is fallen in Rev 14 before the mark is introduced. Notice in Rev 19, it is fallen even before the 7th trumpet when Christ reigns.

for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

Because Babylon is shown in Rev 19 to fall before Christ reign, it is evident it falls before the 7th trumpet. When we look at Rev 14, Babylon falls before the mark but after the angel warns of impeding judgment. The judgement doesnt go forth till the angel scatters fire over the earth before the 1st trumpet is blown. That marker places Babylon's destruction between the 1st trumpet and the 6th. But it also has to precede the mark and that cannot happen till the man of sin institutes it. If you looked at Rev 18:21, it said,

And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

The idea of a stone being thrown into the sea explaining that Babylon will never rise again. When we view the 2nd trumpet, it mimicks it:

it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea:

The idea of a mountain being thrown into the sea was that itll never rise again. Mountains were figurative of Kingdoms.

Example 1: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth
Example 2: O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

In the 2nd example, the mountain was Babylon and it was a burnt mountain on fire. This burning mountain that cast into the sea to never rise again will be mystery Babylon.


I agree the 5th seal will not be completed to all are to die for the Lord and will be resurrected at the last day. With the exception, those who are alive and survived - to the rapture.

Rev ch17
And on her forehead a mysterious name was written:

BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
The Mystery Explained

6I could see that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints and witnesses for Jesus. And I was utterly amazed at the sight of her.

7“Why are you so amazed?” said the angel.
“I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and ten horns.

The Beast is part of Babylon UNTIL God puts it in their hearts to destroy her = this is the last hour before the LORD'S Second Coming.

The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast.

This is why we see the LAST CALL from GOD in Rev ch18 = "Come out of Her My People......" = Math 24:9-14

Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Rev ch19 does not have a call to the Saints/Elect/Bride because SHE is finally Complete

ONLY when the Bride is Complete(5th Seal) do we see the Bride and JESUS Returning to Judge = 1 Thess 3:13, 4:14

 

[No Pre-TB]

I like the pretrib Rapture depiction Jesus used with Noah.
We see God shuts the door to the ark exactly like he did a few verses later in the 10 virgin parable he shut the door.
Then we see Noah in the ark (which is a type of Heaven) and he's lifted raised up goes up into the heavens over a mile into the sky and there he is in the ark while the tribulation is happening on the Earth.
Noah is up above the Earth safe in the ark (which again is a type of Heaven).
then we see Noah return to Earth post tribulation

@David in NJ

Jesus did not use a Pre-TB rapture depiction with Noah.

Let's look at Christ words.

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The same is said again about Lot in another passage. The point is, Christ links both events at happening the same way. Lot was saved on the same day it rained down on Sodom. Noah was saved on the same day the flood came.

And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth. 7And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

Noah entered the ark in the selfsame day the floods came. Exactly like Lot.

Barnes: There is a simple grandeur in the threefold description of the entrance of Noah and his retinue into the ark, first in the command, next in the actual process during the seven days, and, lastly, in the completed act on the seventh day.

Poole: In the selfsame day on which the flood began by that terrible shower.

Cambridge: In the selfsame day] Observe that P represents the Flood as ommencing on the same day (cf. Genesis 7:11) that Noah entered the ark. There is no account taken here of the interval of seven days, mentioned by J in Genesis 7:4; Genesis 7:10, preceding the catastrophe.

Pulpit: Not inconsistent with vers. 4, 5, which do not necessarily imply that the actual entry was made seven days before the Flood; but merely that Noah then began to carry out the Divine instructions. The threefold recital of the entry - first in connection with the invitation or command (ver. 5), and again in the actual process during the seven days (ver. 7), and finally on the day when the Flood began (ver. 15),

Noah was saved on the last day. Lot was saved on the last day. We are resurrected, saved and judged on the last day.

Then we see Noah in the ark (which is a type of Heaven) and he's lifted raised up goes up into the heavens over a mile into the sky and there he is in the ark while the tribulation is happening on the Earth.

No, it is not. The ark has always been a symbol of a tabernacle with God. Just as the Jews were tabernacled with him in the wilderness and we tabernacle with him daily. And the flood was God's wrath per Isaiah 54:9 . Tribulation is never wrath. They are 2 completely different words/meanings. We are never promised to be saved from tribulation (thlipsis).

God will save us on the last day, not 7 years before the last and definitely not 14 years before it.

 

[No Pre-TB]

The Beast is part of Babylon UNTIL God puts it in their hearts to destroy her = this is the last hour before the LORD'S Second Coming.

The harlot rides the beast and controls it. Or she thinks she does. It's not till the beast devours her that she is ruined. Does that make them both the same? Is a rider and a horse the same entity while they are together or does the rider control the horse? If the horse get's angry and kills it rider, it goes into destruction. I don't see them as a unit, but rather one controlling the other till the one that is submissive rises up and slays its master.

EDIT: I will say, I recognize many think like you in this regard. I am not saying its wrong. I just see it different. As we both study, things become more clear. Sometimes this takes alittle time, sometimes it takes years. With the harlot being carried, I have heard some theologians say that the beast and the harlot are 2 of the same belief, but different parts. Think Apostates (Beast) and 6 of the 7 churches (the harlot) that need guidance. When the apostates burn the ones they hate, they go into destruction. I'm unsure what I think of this. There are alot of ideas throughout the last 2k years on the subject. I suppose I will pray and think about it some more. I dont discount anything unless I can disprove it with the word.

 

[David in NJ]

The harlot rides the beast and controls it. Or she thinks she does. It's not till the beast devours her that she is ruined. Does that make them both the same? Is a rider and a horse the same entity while they are together or does the rider control the horse? If the horse get's angry and kills it rider, it goes into destruction. I don't see them as a unit, but rather one controlling the other till the one that is submissive rises up and slays its master.

AGREE = i specified this in Post #431 = maybe you missed it

 

[No Pre-TB]

AGREE = i specified this in Post #431 = maybe you missed it

I went back and left an edit to it. I don't know if you saw that.

 

[ewq1938]

Exactly my point.
You are watching and waiting for the AC.

We are supposed to be. You aren't which means the false one has a great chance to come and deceive pretribbers.

Pretrib is solid bible.

It's not even found in the solid bible.

 

[rebuilder 454]

We are supposed to be. You aren't which means the false one has a great chance to come and deceive pretribbers.






It's not even found in the solid bible.

then transpose some ridiculous assumptions to "lot", "before the flood", the gathering of rev 14, the 10 virgin parable, and the 2 escape verses, because they are solid bible verses and arent going away.
All your teachers omit them anyway.

 

[rebuilder 454]

We are supposed to be. You aren't which means the false one has a great chance to come and deceive pretribbers.






It's not even found in the solid bible.

Cut the verses out.
Pooof! Your doctrine lives

 

[rebuilder 454]

@David in NJ

Jesus did not use a Pre-TB rapture depiction with Noah.

Let's look at Christ words.

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The same is said again about Lot in another passage. The point is, Christ links both events at happening the same way. Lot was saved on the same day it rained down on Sodom. Noah was saved on the same day the flood came.

And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth. 7And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

Noah entered the ark in the selfsame day the floods came. Exactly like Lot.

Barnes: There is a simple grandeur in the threefold description of the entrance of Noah and his retinue into the ark, first in the command, next in the actual process during the seven days, and, lastly, in the completed act on the seventh day.

Poole: In the selfsame day on which the flood began by that terrible shower.

Cambridge: In the selfsame day] Observe that P represents the Flood as ommencing on the same day (cf. Genesis 7:11) that Noah entered the ark. There is no account taken here of the interval of seven days, mentioned by J in Genesis 7:4; Genesis 7:10, preceding the catastrophe.

Pulpit: Not inconsistent with vers. 4, 5, which do not necessarily imply that the actual entry was made seven days before the Flood; but merely that Noah then began to carry out the Divine instructions. The threefold recital of the entry - first in connection with the invitation or command (ver. 5), and again in the actual process during the seven days (ver. 7), and finally on the day when the Flood began (ver. 15),

Noah was saved on the last day. Lot was saved on the last day. We are resurrected, saved and judged on the last day.


No, it is not. The ark has always been a symbol of a tabernacle with God. Just as the Jews were tabernacled with him in the wilderness and we tabernacle with him daily. And the flood was God's wrath per Isaiah 54:9 . Tribulation is never wrath. They are 2 completely different words/meanings. We are never promised to be saved from tribulation (thlipsis).

God will save us on the last day, not 7 years before the last and definitely not 14 years before it.

Lol. The Tabernacle of God is WHERE GOD DWELLS.
Too funny how you are on that hamster wheel of backpedaling.
YOU NEVER ADDRESSED THE COMPONENTS!
"Before the flood" You can not reconcile "before judgment"
The flood was judgement.
But leave it out... as you did.
Jesus said " before the flood"
That was the timeframe.
We know this.
It is a fact.
You can not reconcile that fact.
Just omit it, and your doctrine continues among your peers.

Then omit the FACT that Noah returned post flood or "post judgement".
Now remember, in luke JESUS used Lot ALONGSIDE NOAH.Another pretrib removal.
That was specifically done to VERIFY the pretrib removal of the bride.
Just omit it, because it is dangerous to change Gods word...which you MUST DO...as you just demonstrated.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I’m sorry. I did not view every post you’ve made on this site. In regards to them being posted 1 million times, which I’ve not seen, thank you for posting a few for me. Please give me some time to review before I respond.

This is conduct unbecoming a Christian when you reference derogatory words on a Christian site as a self professed Christian to another brother even if we may or may not have a disagreement. Arnt we supposed to bridle our tongues? Can we talk about spiritual things without adding human waste and potty talk?

Just debate the verses.
No need to pretend you are my mommy.
No trash talking here.