The Reformers Biggest Mistake and Christianity's Need to Change it

[MatthewG]

It is worth the watch @Enoch111 Check it out it is only 12 minutes see what He has to say.

It is not all just about reformation...

It’s about people and how they handle the Bible.

Would you listen to say Adolph Hitler if he used the Bible ? Would you listen to say what a 5 point calvisnt has to say about the Bible? Can you believe that people can idolize the Bible to make it equal to God, when God is not material, yet spiritual? What about the Bible in the hands of someone trying to have dominion over you and puppeteer you with their own brainwashing and agenda?

Are there aspects about the use of the Bible to be weary of ?

Some say yes, some say no. My stance is the Bible is only as valuable as the person who is reading it and whatever it is they may teach.

The Bible is the greatest gift to humanity when it is the right hands, but if it wrong hands the Bible can be a curse if it is used to harm, and be malicious of others.

 

[theefaith]

Hello you and welcome.

I think that Bible is one of the greatest gifts to humanity when it is in the right right hands. I also think it can be the greatest curse, if it is in the wrong hands.

This video is 12 minutes long.
The Reformers Biggest Mistake and Christianity's Need to Change it

Do you have any thoughts about on these things?

there is no reformers and no reformation
They are not apostles eph 2:20 and have zero authority from Christ like the apostles
God established the new covenant church on Peter and it cannot be reformed Matt 16:18
Doctrine is revealed by God and cannot be reformed
God cannot be the author of error
Either in doctrine or in the church the spotless bride of Christ

 

[quietthinker]

there is no reformers and no reformation
They are not apostles eph 2:20 and have zero authority from Christ like the apostles
God established the new covenant church on Peter and it cannot be reformed Matt 16:18
Doctrine is revealed by God and cannot be reformed
God cannot be the author of error
Either in doctrine or in the church the spotless bride of Christ

The error is your interpretation of scripture theefaith.....an error you either do not see or are too proud to admit. An error that requires continuing errors to justify.

 

[tsr]

"Evangelical angst about its current state and future prospects. Evangelicals are trying to figure out who they are and who they should be. We see that in the 'Evangelical Manifesto,' the Gospel Coalition, in This We Believe. There are all these movements trying to define who evangelicals are and what evangelicals should be. Since evangelicalism is the only growing segment of American Christianity, its angst and future will matter deeply to the church in North America."

"A widespread abandonment of Christian doctrinal commitment -- even doctrinal knowledge. Forget the rising number of people with no religious identity; the news to me is the vast number of self-identified Christians who have no real knowledge of, or deep commitment to, a specific Christian faith. You could say they were watering down Christianity's teachings, but I question if they even know those core teachings."

 

[theefaith]

The error is your interpretation of scripture theefaith.....an error you either do not see or are too proud to admit. An error that requires continuing errors to justify.

Only One church Jn 10:16

 

[Enoch111]

God cannot be the author of error Either in doctrine or in the church the spotless bride of Christ

Since you are promoting the Catholic Church, God has nothing to do with the errors which abound in that church (which cannot be the spotless bride either).

 

[theefaith]

Since you are promoting the Catholic Church, God has nothing to do with the errors which abound in that church (which cannot be the spotless bride either).

example?

 

[theefaith]

Hello you and welcome.

I think that Bible is one of the greatest gifts to humanity when it is in the right right hands. I also think it can be the greatest curse, if it is in the wrong hands.

This video is 12 minutes long.
The Reformers Biggest Mistake and Christianity's Need to Change it

Do you have any thoughts about on these things?

where is the reformation in the Bible?

 

[amadeus]

where is the reformation in the Bible?

Was not Jesus a Reformer? Was not every man sent with God's Word to correct errors or disobediences in people a Reformer? Was not then Peter a Reformer and Paul and John? Were not many of the OT prophets Reformers? Have not many people since the death and/or removal of the last Apostles named in scriptures also needed Reformers to help them to accomplish God's work in them?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:" Eph 4:11-15

Since many people have not been perfected and have not come into the unity of the faith nor into the knowledge of the Son of God so as to no longer be children tossed to and fro by various doctrine, are those ministers that were given not still being given today? So then look around for ministers truly called by and sent by God who are striving to minister in accord with His Word in order to see Reformers even today?

Are you a Reformer, or a would be Reformer, @theefaith ?

 

[Brakelite]

@theefaith
Any Christian with a modicum of reading ability, who does not hold a preconceived bias or prejudice against Protestantism, may read the life of Martin Luther and understand that while Luther himself had some way to go before maturing to a sound Christian character, what he taught and debated with his opponents such as Eck, was not founded on personal imaginary grievances against the church in which he served as a theologian and professor, but rather on study of scripture and observation of the church of his day.
His 95 thesis, inspired by his repugnance of the practice of granting indulgences, was recognized far and wide, even far beyond the borders of Germany, as a confirmation of gospel truth. While the church itself may have officially taught that simony etc was bad, there were underlying influences within the church which allowed the practice of indulgences to flourish and grow. The acceptance of bribes by popes and bishops to gain influence and office, was widely known and so bribing God was not recognized as anything out of the ordinary.
The licentiousness, the vulgarity, the unrivalled opulence and creature comfort that Luther witnessed in Rome, along with the general wicked behavior from the lowest class in the laity to the highest levels of office in the church, horrified Luther especially when he compared it to his own monastery that he was representing. Even in his travels along the way, monasteries that he visited and stayed at were fraught with issues which Luther deplored. A general disinterest in spiritual matters, a predilection toward licentiousness and the closer he got to Rome, the worse it got.
The issues in the medieval church was founded in poor theology, discovered in evil fruit and the bad behavior and character of its practitioners, and if reformation wasn't accepted, it would only get worse.
It wasn't, and it did.

 

[Brakelite]

Since you are promoting the Catholic Church, God has nothing to do with the errors which abound in that church (which cannot be the spotless bride either).

And yet Protestantism continues to embrace and cleave to many of those same errors. Errors and traditions that have wracked the church and cost millions their lives, for nearly 2000 years.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I think the Bible is the greatest gift to humanity when it is the right hands, I also think it can be the biggest curse if is the wrong hands.

The same thing can be said of many things. Take a mirror for instance. The Bible is like a mirror; the reflection reveals who I really am. I can chose to ignore it and walk away, or I can take stock of it and respond appropriately.

If I understand Luther correctly, the insight he offered centered on the depth and profundity of our sin; that religiosity is nothing if not a means to hide myself from the truth of my existence.

 

[theefaith]

Was not Jesus a Reformer? Was not every man sent with God's Word to correct errors or disobediences in people a Reformer? Was not then Peter a Reformer and Paul and John? Were not many of the OT prophets Reformers? Have not many people since the death and/or removal of the last Apostles named in scriptures also needed Reformers to help them to accomplish God's work in them?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:" Eph 4:11-15

Since many people have not been perfected and have not come into the unity of the faith nor into the knowledge of the Son of God so as to no longer be children tossed to and fro by various doctrine, are those ministers that were given not still being given today? So then look around for ministers truly called by and sent by God who are striving to minister in accord with His Word in order to see Reformers even today?

Are you a Reformer, or a would be Reformer, @theefaith ?

Christ is a God and has authority to form the new covenant church on the apostles Matt 16:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 but no man has authority to reform what God has made and doctrine is immutable truth and cannot be reformed

Luther was a Rosa crucian occultist atticking Christ and his holy church

 

[APAK]

Hello you and welcome.

I think that Bible is one of the greatest gifts to humanity when it is in the right right hands. I also think it can be the greatest curse, if it is in the wrong hands.

This video is 12 minutes long.
The Reformers Biggest Mistake and Christianity's Need to Change it

Do you have any thoughts about on these things?

Matthew: I would warn you about where you get your information from especially if you want to entertain it and consider it as truth. I would listen to it and assess its value based on sola spiritus as you mentioned, to discern it for truth. And I would not be quick to absorb it as truth until more analysis is done. I am only saying this because I know you are sincere in wanting to mature in Christ and I do not want you to fall victim to a con job as this fella is, as your source in this thread.

If you do some more research on him, you will find out he is a controversial figure, even in the circles of Mormonism of Utah. Even for them he is a little radical.

Yes, he makes some logic arguments in speaking of the Bible as a tool for good or evil as a sword or knife. And if used in the wrong hands it is used for evil and can destroy lives. And that is where his true suddenly stops.

He of course uses the Reformers as the central problem, as part of his false strawman. He is a master at developing strawmen for folks to buy into as he lays his trap for his listeners. I believe his agenda here is to support the Book of Mormon and not necessarily the Bible as the standard and the Spirit activated holy writ of our Creator and inspired to be written by his people. This radical Mormon also has unvetted extra-biblical doctrine he want to sell to you if you listen again to his clip.

If you are concerned or are very cautious of folks wielding the sword of truth and speaking about scripture to you or an audience and you cannot discern their motives, then the clear remedy is to get more into scripture for yourself and become an expert. As the Spirit guides you and makes alive the very words you are reading, lifted off the pages of the Bible into your heart and mind you gain personal spiritual knowledge that no one can now fool you about. You grow in confidence, discernment and then as a watchman for false witnesses creeping into the believers' camp.

I consider primal as the key to truth, sola spiritus, as the foundation, and then used in conjunction with scriptura and also whenever you get messages directly into your heart from the Spirit.


Bless you,

APAK

 

[theefaith]

@theefaith
Any Christian with a modicum of reading ability, who does not hold a preconceived bias or prejudice against Protestantism, may read the life of Martin Luther and understand that while Luther himself had some way to go before maturing to a sound Christian character, what he taught and debated with his opponents such as Eck, was not founded on personal imaginary grievances against the church in which he served as a theologian and professor, but rather on study of scripture and observation of the church of his day.
His 95 thesis, inspired by his repugnance of the practice of granting indulgences, was recognized far and wide, even far beyond the borders of Germany, as a confirmation of gospel truth. While the church itself may have officially taught that simony etc was bad, there were underlying influences within the church which allowed the practice of indulgences to flourish and grow. The acceptance of bribes by popes and bishops to gain influence and office, was widely known and so bribing God was not recognized as anything out of the ordinary.
The licentiousness, the vulgarity, the unrivalled opulence and creature comfort that Luther witnessed in Rome, along with the general wicked behavior from the lowest class in the laity to the highest levels of office in the church, horrified Luther especially when he compared it to his own monastery that he was representing. Even in his travels along the way, monasteries that he visited and stayed at were fraught with issues which Luther deplored. A general disinterest in spiritual matters, a predilection toward licentiousness and the closer he got to Rome, the worse it got.
The issues in the medieval church was founded in poor theology, discovered in evil fruit and the bad behavior and character of its practitioners, and if reformation wasn't accepted, it would only get worse.
It wasn't, and it did.

An excellent example of the high virtues of fundamentalist Protestantism
Pride presumption and arrogance

why are you canonizing this condemned excommunicated heretic?

he himself demanded the church have a council to decide these matters and they condemned all his errors!

who is he to decide morals, only God can declare right and wrong!

if what you say is true he would have gone privately to his superiors with his concerns but no it was an attack on Christ and his holy church by the occult mystery schools Luther was a Rosa crucian

 

[theefaith]

Matthew: I would warn you about where you get your information from especially if you want to entertain it and consider it as truth. I would listen to it and assess its value based on sola spiritus as you mentioned, to discern it for truth. And I would not be quick to absorb it as truth until more analysis is done. I am only saying this because I know you are sincere in wanting to mature in Christ and I do not want you to fall victim to a con job as this fella is, as your source in this thread.

If you do some more research on him, you will find out he is a controversial figure, even in the circles of Mormonism of Utah. Even for them he is a little radical.

Yes, he makes some logic arguments in speaking of the Bible as a tool for good or evil as a sword or knife. And if used in the wrong hands it is used for evil and can destroy lives. And that is where his true suddenly stops.

He of course uses the Reformers as the central problem, as part of his false strawman. He is a master at developing strawmen for folks to buy into as he lays his trap for his listeners. I believe his agenda here is to support the Book of Mormon and not necessarily the Bible as the standard and the Spirit activated holy writ of our Creator and inspired to be written by his people. This radical Mormon also has unvetted extra-biblical doctrine he want to sell to you if you listen again to his clip.

If you are concerned or are very cautious of folks wielding the sword of truth and speaking about scripture to you or an audience and you cannot discern their motives, then the clear remedy is to get more into scripture for yourself and become an expert. As the Spirit guides you and makes alive the very words you are reading, lifted off the pages of the Bible into your heart and mind you gain personal spiritual knowledge that no one can now fool you about. You grow in confidence, discernment and then as a watchman for false witnesses creeping into the believers' camp.

I consider primal as the key to truth, sola spiritus, as the foundation, and then used in conjunction with scriptura and also whenever you get messages directly into your heart from the Spirit.


Bless you,

APAK

Yes there is no new revelation no new church! That include the false sects of the Protestants only the one holy catholic and apostolic church founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18 eph 2:20 Jn 10:16

 

[amadeus]

Christ is a God and has authority to form the new covenant church on the apostles Matt 16:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 but no man has authority to reform what God has made and doctrine is immutable truth and cannot be reformed

Luther was a Rosa crucian occultist atticking Christ and his holy church

Whether he was right or wrong or some place in between, attacking Luther, who you never knew [nor did I] or anyone else, who does not see things just as you do is not going to fix the world of men. It is not going to change history. It is not going to stop anyone from attacking Christ and the church you support if that is what they want to do. That is the nature of the beast that every man is until and if that man is changed by God into something better.

Instead of being so defensive and/or always attacking, consider my questions to you. You need not give me any answers at all for I am also only a man, but consider what and who God is and what He wants you to do.

Writing those lengthy posts filled with a lot of quoted verses from scriptures does not help you or anyone else. While guilty myself of writing sometimes very lengthy posts, I will most of the time skip the lengthy writing of others as my mind cannot keep up any thoughts you intended to convey in your multitude of words, even scriptures.

If you need to argue your point, do it as simply as possible. All of those verses will simply chase most people away from you. Of the ones who do respond to you most of them I believe, like me, will not have even read them...

 

[theefaith]

Whether he was right or wrong or some place in between, attacking Luther, who you never knew [nor did I] or anyone else, who does not see things just as you do is not going to fix the world of men. It is not going to change history. It is not going to stop anyone from attacking Christ and the church you support if that is what they want to do. That is the nature of the beast that every man is until and if that man is changed by God into something better.

Instead of being so defensive and/or always attacking, consider my questions to you. You need not give me any answers at all for I am also only a man, but consider what and who God is and what He wants you to do.

Writing those lengthy posts filled with a lot of quoted verses from scriptures does not help you or anyone else. While guilty myself of writing sometimes very lengthy posts, I will most of the time skip the lengthy writing of others as my mind cannot keep up any thoughts you intended to convey in your multitude of words, even scriptures.

If you need to argue your point, do it as simply as possible. All of those verses will simply chase most people away from you. Of the ones who do respond to you most of them I believe, like me, will not have even read them...

you right

 

[Brakelite]

why are you canonizing this condemned excommunicated heretic?

Why should I take any notice whatsoever of a Pope's denunciation of Luther and your imagined charges of occult connections considering a previous pope excommunicated the archbishop of Constantinople for simply observing Passover according to scripture rather than an occult day dedicated to Ishtar?

 

[amadeus]

you right

You did something better in those two word than what I have seen in most others here over the years in admitting that someone else was right in the face of criticism.

May God richly bless you as you strive to accomplish His will in your own life!