The Reformers Biggest Mistake and Christianity's Need to Change it

[theefaith]

Why should I take any notice whatsoever of a Pope's denunciation of Luther and your imagined charges of occult connections considering a previous pope excommunicated the archbishop of Constantinople for simply observing Passover according to scripture rather than an occult day dedicated to Ishtar?

cos of the authority of Christ and his holy church and scripture Matt 16:18 bound on earth bound in heaven
Christians do not observe Jewish Passover
And not pagan festivals but the resurrection of our savior

 

[APAK]

Yes there is no new revelation no new church! That include the false sects of the Protestants only the one holy catholic and apostolic church founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18 eph 2:20 Jn 10:16

Well, now that is your opinion and not mine. Good Day

 

[theefaith]

Well, now that is your opinion and not mine. Good Day

that’s scripture not opinion!
Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 also

 

[theefaith]

That excludes Islam’s claims to new revelation also

 

[theefaith]

The so called reformation was an attack on the holy church!
And to attack the church is to attack Christ! Acts 9:4

 

[MatthewG]

Matthew: I would warn you about where you get your information from especially if you want to entertain it and consider it as truth. I would listen to it and assess its value based on sola spiritus as you mentioned, to discern it for truth. And I would not be quick to absorb it as truth until more analysis is done. I am only saying this because I know you are sincere in wanting to mature in Christ and I do not want you to fall victim to a con job as this fella is, as your source in this thread.

If you do some more research on him, you will find out he is a controversial figure, even in the circles of Mormonism of Utah. Even for them he is a little radical.

Yes, he makes some logic arguments in speaking of the Bible as a tool for good or evil as a sword or knife. And if used in the wrong hands it is used for evil and can destroy lives. And that is where his true suddenly stops.

He of course uses the Reformers as the central problem, as part of his false strawman. He is a master at developing strawmen for folks to buy into as he lays his trap for his listeners. I believe his agenda here is to support the Book of Mormon and not necessarily the Bible as the standard and the Spirit activated holy writ of our Creator and inspired to be written by his people. This radical Mormon also has unvetted extra-biblical doctrine he want to sell to you if you listen again to his clip.

If you are concerned or are very cautious of folks wielding the sword of truth and speaking about scripture to you or an audience and you cannot discern their motives, then the clear remedy is to get more into scripture for yourself and become an expert. As the Spirit guides you and makes alive the very words you are reading, lifted off the pages of the Bible into your heart and mind you gain personal spiritual knowledge that no one can now fool you about. You grow in confidence, discernment and then as a watchman for false witnesses creeping into the believers' camp.

I consider primal as the key to truth, sola spiritus, as the foundation, and then used in conjunction with scriptura and also whenever you get messages directly into your heart from the Spirit.


Bless you,

APAK

He taught me scripture, helped me a lot. For the past five years and I know a lot more than I use to, I don’t hold him above God or Jesus.

I don’t appreciate you calling the man a conman. I guess really we have probably lied and conned someone though we are conmen especially in our flesh.

You take care to, God bless.

 

[MatthewG]

The same thing can be said of many things. Take a mirror for instance. The Bible is like a mirror; the reflection reveals who I really am. I can chose to ignore it and walk away, or I can take stock of it and respond appropriately.

If I understand Luther correctly, the insight he offered centered on the depth and profundity of our sin; that religiosity is nothing if not a means to hide myself from the truth of my existence.

Thank you

 

[robert derrick]

Is that what this video is about (since I do not watch videos)? The use of the Bible by the Reformers was a cursed thing? From where are you getting your information? The biggest mistake of the Reformers was to not make A CLEAN BREAK from the Catholic church. And at this point in Church history, it is far too late to fix anything.

We can fix ourselves.

 

[Enoch111]

We can fix ourselves.

Is that what you think the Reformers were teaching? Not really.

 

[robert derrick]

Hello you and welcome.

I think that Bible is one of the greatest gifts to humanity when it is in the right right hands. I also think it can be the greatest curse, if it is in the wrong hands.

This video is 12 minutes long.
The Reformers Biggest Mistake and Christianity's Need to Change it

Do you have any thoughts about on these things?

1. His whole issue appears to be not accepting what others say about the Bible, but what we have to say about it ought be most important to us.
Agreed.
2. The Bible is not good in and of itself, except someone read it.
True with words on pages. Not true with the Word of God which abideth forever.
3. Our reading is most important to us. It is most important how the Scriptures are read 'according to ourselves'.
True. Because we will stand alone before God without trying to blame another.

However,
1. We should not heed what evil people think of the Bible, Hitler, but only give attendance to what good people think of it, loving spiritual, etc...
The problem of course is if we are basing that judgment by ourselves. We are either judging whether we should give heed to people based on judging by appearance, or we are simply giving heed to those we already agree with anyway.

One man's loving, spiritual, caring believer is another man's Hitler. And visa versa.

We should care most about what we read and believe; however, the proof of what we or anyone believe about God's Word as being true, is independent of us, because that judgment is by God Himself, Who wrote it in the first place.

I.e. Scripture interprets Scripture, and when man does so accurately, Scripture will prove it.

(And if I were judging whether to hear anyone about the Bible by appearance, I wouldn't give this guy much of a hearing. But I did override that instinct long enough to get a hearing on a few scattered things that caught my attention...)

Overall, he is just warning against accepting traditional ways of thinking about the Bible, without looking into it seriously for ourselves. Be Berean Christians. But, at the same time, we are not the end all of understanding, nor is anyone else on earth. The Bible only is it's own end all of understanding.

 

[robert derrick]

Is that what you think the Reformers were teaching? Not really.

I don't care what the Catholics or the reformers or anyone else thinks. Been there and done that.

I was only making a half-amusing point, that we cannot fix the world of religion, and we shouldn't try, but it is never too late to 'fix' our own ways by Jesus and His Word, except we be reprobates, or dead.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Matthew: I would warn you about where you get your information from especially if you want to entertain it and consider it as truth. I would listen to it and assess its value based on sola spiritus as you mentioned, to discern it for truth. And I would not be quick to absorb it as truth until more analysis is done. I am only saying this because I know you are sincere in wanting to mature in Christ and I do not want you to fall victim to a con job as this fella is, as your source in this thread.

If you do some more research on him, you will find out he is a controversial figure, even in the circles of Mormonism of Utah. Even for them he is a little radical.

Yes, he makes some logic arguments in speaking of the Bible as a tool for good or evil as a sword or knife. And if used in the wrong hands it is used for evil and can destroy lives. And that is where his true suddenly stops.

He of course uses the Reformers as the central problem, as part of his false strawman. He is a master at developing strawmen for folks to buy into as he lays his trap for his listeners. I believe his agenda here is to support the Book of Mormon and not necessarily the Bible as the standard and the Spirit activated holy writ of our Creator and inspired to be written by his people. This radical Mormon also has unvetted extra-biblical doctrine he want to sell to you if you listen again to his clip.

If you are concerned or are very cautious of folks wielding the sword of truth and speaking about scripture to you or an audience and you cannot discern their motives, then the clear remedy is to get more into scripture for yourself and become an expert. As the Spirit guides you and makes alive the very words you are reading, lifted off the pages of the Bible into your heart and mind you gain personal spiritual knowledge that no one can now fool you about. You grow in confidence, discernment and then as a watchman for false witnesses creeping into the believers' camp.

I consider primal as the key to truth, sola spiritus, as the foundation, and then used in conjunction with scriptura and also whenever you get messages directly into your heart from the Spirit.


Bless you,

APAK

The guy in the video is actually an Evangelical whom targets believing "Mormons" & others in his proselytization efforts.

 

[theefaith]

We can fix ourselves.

there is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles
Only one new covenant
Only one kingdom
Only the apostles and their successors have authority from Christ

Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16 Jn 20:21-23 eph h 2:20 eph 4:6

 

[theefaith]

God provides a glorious shining city on a hill if we submit to his will and submit to his authority and those he appoints!

Matt 5:14
Ye (the apostles/ the church) are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
(There is only one church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors!) matt 16:18 Jn 10:16 eph 2:20

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

and you happy with a tiny shack as long as you’re king and pope!

 

[theefaith]

The error is your interpretation of scripture theefaith.....an error you either do not see or are too proud to admit. An error that requires continuing errors to justify.

Please explain and don’t say context
All scripture is inspired but says nothing about context or exegesis

 

[theefaith]

You are claiming that the Reformers misused the Bible by making the Bible -- the Word of God -- the supreme authority in all matters of faith and practice? Do you realize how ludicrous that sounds? SOLA SCRIPTURA was meant to bring people back to the Bible. That is definitely not a misuse of the Bible.

Keep in mind that the Catholic church at that time was bound and determined to keep the Bible from ordinary people, and also insisted that only their priests could properly interpret Scripture. But if that were true, the CC would have the soundest doctrine, not the opposite.

it’s still true that only the church has authority from Christ to interpret the scriptures

but the thing about keeping from ordinary people is ridiculous
Books were very rare and expensive written by hand before the printing press still most people were illiterate until the 20th century

now that I can read the Bible for myself I’m supposed to be a good Protestant by now? Whatever!

 

[robert derrick]

Either way it goes the Bible in the wrong hands can be abused. It would be impossible to discredit it as a factual statement. Because look at all the past cults and things and how people make the Bible the authority and can place religious demands upon people opposed to what Jesus Christ came to do which was to set free those in captivity bringing them into the light of the Kingdom of God by and through faith.



Enoch I do not believe in sola scriptura. Instead sola spiritus.


Pathfinder
I do not even know anything really all that much about the reformation. What happened?

"I do not believe in sola scriptura. Instead sola spiritus."

That's cute. Never heard that one.

The Spirit of truth will guide us into all truth: that God has written in Scripture.

So, it takes both, the Scripture and the Spirit.

But anything that is not Scripture is not truth for all, even if it be fine for the individual believer walking in the Spirit.

But when anything is contrary to Scripture, that is when the Spirit is no longer guiding it.

"Scripture without the Spirit is a dead letter, and the Spirit without Scripture is a misguided error." (Anonymous)

 

[theefaith]

"I do not believe in sola scriptura. Instead sola spiritus."

That's cute. Never heard that one.

The Spirit of truth will guide us into all truth: that God has written in Scripture.

So, it takes both, the Scripture and the Spirit.

But anything that is not Scripture is not truth for all, even if it be fine for the individual believer walking in the Spirit.

But when anything is contrary to Scripture, that is when the Spirit is no longer guiding it.

"Scripture without the Spirit is a dead letter, and the Spirit without Scripture is a misguided error." (Anonymous)

the church has authority to teach the truth
Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 matt 28:19
We must be taught instructed Lk 1:4
Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

 

[MatthewG]

"I do not believe in sola scriptura. Instead sola spiritus."

That's cute. Never heard that one.

The Spirit of truth will guide us into all truth: that God has written in Scripture.

So, it takes both, the Scripture and the Spirit.

But anything that is not Scripture is not truth for all, even if it be fine for the individual believer walking in the Spirit.

But when anything is contrary to Scripture, that is when the Spirit is no longer guiding it.

"Scripture without the Spirit is a dead letter, and the Spirit without Scripture is a misguided error." (Anonymous)

I don’t debate but the spirit of truth will help us in interpreting and looking at scripture I believe. What about you?

 

[theefaith]

I don’t debate but the spirit of truth will help us in interpreting and looking at scripture I believe. What about you?

not “us” but the apostles
Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13
They teach us instruct us
Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4