The Reformers Biggest Mistake and Christianity's Need to Change it

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MatthewG

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Most certainly believe that is the spirit of Christ in me that causes the good to come forth.

Never me because I’m unable to do anything without the strength of the Lord who lives with-in me.

I could say it is me but that would be taking credit away from the Lord.


When the LORD takes pleasure in anyone's way, he causes their enemies to make peace with them.
 

amigo de christo

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The common factor i find amongst those who want to downplay the bible , is because something in the bible
speaks against something they love . As in some kind of sin .
As for me , i am sticking with the kjv bible , the Holy Ghost , the JESUS of the bible .
 
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kcnalp

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The common factor i find amongst those who want to downplay the bible , is because something in the bible
speaks against something they love . As in some kind of sin .
As for me , i am sticking with the kjv bible , the Holy Ghost , the JESUS of the bible .
Sounds like a good plan, except for kjv. I still can't understand some of the King's lingo. I guess that's why I purchased over 40 Bible translations.

KJV 1 Samuel 25:22
“So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.”
 

Enoch111

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Spell it out otherwise I don’t know what your talking about
The Reformers spelled it out centuries ago. So you don't need to have anything spelled out. Almost 200 years before the actual Reformation John Wycliffe (1330–1384) summarized the matter thus:

"...But if you reply that it follows from this, that the pope and his cardinals have many times erred from the faith, and often deceive both themselves and their churches, the conclusion is true, though lamentable. Whether, however, they died penitent for such heresy, or remained heretics after death, it is not for us rashly to decide..."


HOW AND FROM WHAT CAUSE THE HERESY CONCERNING THE SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST HATH GROWN UP.

Tracts and Treatises of John de Wycliffe
Tracts and Treatises of John de Wycliffe | Online Library of Liberty

 

theefaith

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The Reformers spelled it out centuries ago. So you don't need to have anything spelled out. Almost 200 years before the actual Reformation John Wycliffe (1330–1384) summarized the matter thus:

"...But if you reply that it follows from this, that the pope and his cardinals have many times erred from the faith, and often deceive both themselves and their churches, the conclusion is true, though lamentable. Whether, however, they died penitent for such heresy, or remained heretics after death, it is not for us rashly to decide..."


HOW AND FROM WHAT CAUSE THE HERESY CONCERNING THE SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST HATH GROWN UP.

Tracts and Treatises of John de Wycliffe
Tracts and Treatises of John de Wycliffe | Online Library of Liberty

the one true church founded by Christ cannot teach error
Matt 16:18 18:18
Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13
Jn 10:16
Lk 10:16

Wycliffe was a condemned excommunicated heretic
Had no authority no way to decide what is true accept to follow the teaching of Christ and his holy church

matt 16:18 the gates shall NOT prevail
 

Brakelite

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The veracity and truthfulness of Catholic dogma and doctrine can be measured by the power by which the holy Spirit concurred and supported those teachings. Or whether some other means needed to be used in order for them to be accepted. 19th Century American poet, John Godfrey Saxe, wrote, “Laws, like sausages, cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made.” The same could be said for dogma, and in particular Catholic canon law.
Several examples could be offered as test cases, but I would cite but two. The introduction of Sunday sacredness, and the Catholic version of the Godhead as taught in the Nicene creed, and revised later in other councils. If one is willing to cast a glance at history, it would be discovered that both these doctrines were enforced through persecution of dissenters, threats and political connivance to dissuade others from disagreeing and presenting contrary beliefs. The holy Spirit was conspicuously absent from the proceedings.
Significantly, I see this same coercive atmosphere attenuating the discussions even here. Bullying and put-downs, suggestions of intellectual shortcomings, and charges of "heretic" and "blasphemer" etc quite common. As if God Himself actually approves of such behavior, and doesn't desire that anyone honestly discuss and face up to the actual Biblical issues.
 

Enoch111

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Wycliffe was a condemned excommunicated heretic
There you go. Wycliffe was a true saint of God but you have accused him of something of which he was not guilty. However the Catholic church could not stand to see their false doctrines and heresies exposed by Wycliffe and the Reformers. And that is why Charles Chiniquy was also "cancelled" by the Catholic church. He too was excommunicated. But actually that should be a badge of honor for a former Catholic.
 
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Brakelite

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There you go. Wycliffe was a true saint of God but you have accused him of something of which he was not guilty. However the Catholic church could not stand to see their false doctrines and heresies exposed by Wycliffe and the Reformers. And that is why Charles Chiniquy was also "cancelled" by the Catholic church. He too was excommunicated. But actually that should be a badge of honor for a former Catholic.
Yep. The moment the Catholic Church or any of its members start bristling at something you've said, or done, then you can be totally assured you're doing something right.
 
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theefaith

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The veracity and truthfulness of Catholic dogma and doctrine can be measured by the power by which the holy Spirit concurred and supported those teachings. Or whether some other means needed to be used in order for them to be accepted. 19th Century American poet, John Godfrey Saxe, wrote, “Laws, like sausages, cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made.” The same could be said for dogma, and in particular Catholic canon law.
Several examples could be offered as test cases, but I would cite but two. The introduction of Sunday sacredness, and the Catholic version of the Godhead as taught in the Nicene creed, and revised later in other councils. If one is willing to cast a glance at history, it would be discovered that both these doctrines were enforced through persecution of dissenters, threats and political connivance to dissuade others from disagreeing and presenting contrary beliefs. The holy Spirit was conspicuously absent from the proceedings.
Significantly, I see this same coercive atmosphere attenuating the discussions even here. Bullying and put-downs, suggestions of intellectual shortcomings, and charges of "heretic" and "blasphemer" etc quite common. As if God Himself actually approves of such behavior, and doesn't desire that anyone honestly discuss and face up to the actual Biblical issues.

Holy apostolic councils always are inspired by the HS

dogma is thee faith eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
Divine revelation
Catholic faith
 

theefaith

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There you go. Wycliffe was a true saint of God but you have accused him of something of which he was not guilty. However the Catholic church could not stand to see their false doctrines and heresies exposed by Wycliffe and the Reformers. And that is why Charles Chiniquy was also "cancelled" by the Catholic church. He too was excommunicated. But actually that should be a badge of honor for a former Catholic.

The churches duty and that of the apostles is to safeguard the sacred deposit of truth against all errors and the faithful from all harm
Anyone opposing divine revelation is guilty of treason against God
Satan never ceases to attack Christ and his holy church
Wake up man
 

amigo de christo

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Sounds like a good plan, except for kjv. I still can't understand some of the King's lingo. I guess that's why I purchased over 40 Bible translations.

KJV 1 Samuel 25:22
“So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.”
Read the verse in front of it . basically david had said that he had kept all of nabals stuff protected and that nabal
had rewarded him Evil for the good that david had done . Now david was coming in with vengeance .
To reward him EVIL . He wasnt even gonna let one man live . Aka , he who pisses against the wall . For men stand and pee my friend .
Its pretty simple . Though , yes at times things might be a bit harder to understand . Specially if its the first time reading it .
But the more one reads the more it sinks in .
 

theefaith

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Read the verse in front of it . basically david had said that he had kept all of nabals stuff protected and that nabal
had rewarded him Evil for the good that david had done . Now david was coming in with vengeance .
To reward him EVIL . He wasnt even gonna let one man live . Aka , he who pisses against the wall . For men stand and pee my friend .
Its pretty simple . Though , yes at times things might be a bit harder to understand . Specially if its the first time reading it .
But the more one reads the more it sinks in .

what is the authorized version?
 

Brakelite

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The churches duty and that of the apostles is to safeguard the sacred deposit of truth against all errors and the faithful from all harm
Anyone opposing divine revelation is guilty of treason against God
Satan never ceases to attack Christ and his holy church
Wake up man
History records somewhat of a different story. I agree that Satan attacks God's people, however, over the last 1500 years he was using your church to do it. Whether it
is being treacherous against God if I don't have all my ducks in a row regarding doctrine, I'll let God be my judge and if necessary my executioner. I am absolutely sure I will experience greater mercy and grace and forgiveness at his hand than your own.
 

theefaith

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History records somewhat of a different story. I agree that Satan attacks God's people, however, over the last 1500 years he was using your church to do it. Whether it
is being treacherous against God if I don't have all my ducks in a row regarding doctrine, I'll let God be my judge and if necessary my executioner. I am absolutely sure I will experience greater mercy and grace and forgiveness at his hand than your own.

examples please
 

Brakelite

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examples please
There are entire books detailing the ghastly and bloody intrusions upon the consciences of both individuals and groups of people at the hands of armies and governments throughout the world in obedience to the Roman pontiff. Massacres celebrated by the church, your church, as "victories for Christendom". You have no idea of the extent of the blasphemy of such actions. Murdering millions in the name of Christ for the sole purpose of defending power. And early Protestants were no better. Although they at least had an excuse... They were taught by Rome that such murders were justified. The wars against those who chose not to accept the creeds of the council of Nicea, was instigated by the bishop of Rome and carried out by the armies of the emperor. Disgraceful. Then at the same time were the wars carried out against Christian Sabbath keepers when the Roman church had decided to enforce Sunday observance in direct contradiction to biblical teaching and practise, even countermanding a Commandment of God in order to uphold an adopted pagan tradition.
The council of Trent debated for 16 years to to find a justifiable reason to counter the reformation. The authority of scripture versus the authority of the church. The bishop of Reggio finally came up with the answer. Because Protestants were observing Sunday, a day the Catholic Church itself claims as a mark of her authority, then Protestants agreed that the church has authority higher than scripture.
Well this person chooses to observe Sabbath on the 7th day. Therefore your church has no authority over me. I choose to have Christ as my authority. I choose to obey God's Commandments, not the Commandments of man.
If you want more information on the bloody history of the Roman church, then read Foxxe's book of Martyrs, or the history of the reformation by Dowling, or the history of the Waldenses by Wylie. That last ones a good one. There are many many more.
 

theefaith

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There are entire books detailing the ghastly and bloody intrusions upon the consciences of both individuals and groups of people at the hands of armies and governments throughout the world in obedience to the Roman pontiff. Massacres celebrated by the church, your church, as "victories for Christendom". You have no idea of the extent of the blasphemy of such actions. Murdering millions in the name of Christ for the sole purpose of defending power. And early Protestants were no better. Although they at least had an excuse... They were taught by Rome that such murders were justified. The wars against those who chose not to accept the creeds of the council of Nicea, was instigated by the bishop of Rome and carried out by the armies of the emperor. Disgraceful. Then at the same time were the wars carried out against Christian Sabbath keepers when the Roman church had decided to enforce Sunday observance in direct contradiction to biblical teaching and practise, even countermanding a Commandment of God in order to uphold an adopted pagan tradition.
The council of Trent debated for 16 years to to find a justifiable reason to counter the reformation. The authority of scripture versus the authority of the church. The bishop of Reggio finally came up with the answer. Because Protestants were observing Sunday, a day the Catholic Church itself claims as a mark of her authority, then Protestants agreed that the church has authority higher than scripture.
Well this person chooses to observe Sabbath on the 7th day. Therefore your church has no authority over me. I choose to have Christ as my authority. I choose to obey God's Commandments, not the Commandments of man.
If you want more information on the bloody history of the Roman church, then read Foxxe's book of Martyrs, or the history of the reformation by Dowling, or the history of the Waldenses by Wylie. That last ones a good one. There are many many more.


you have no right to make up your own faith
Catholic and divine faith or dogma is only revealed by God! Jude 1:3
eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
You can accept or reject that’s all