The Rest of The Dead

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marks

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For what it's worth, I will post my views on this whole 'bound/loose' ball of wax.

When Satan is 'bound' it simply means that he is not in a physical body.

When Satan is 'loosed' it means the opposite. Satan is now in a physical body.

This will occur a total of seven times, hence the Seven Heads of the Beast/Dragon...

Revelation 13:1
"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy"


The Sea is the Sea of People...

Revelation 17:15
"And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues"


More specifically, the 'Sea' is the Embryonic Fluid in the Womb from which Satan will be birthed from. In other words, the 'Pit'...

Proverbs 23:27
"For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit"


An example of one time Satan was loosed and birthed is Pharaoh...

Ezekiel 29:3
"Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself"


Thus, Pharaoh is one of the Seven Heads of the Beast/Dragon.

The bottom line is that Satan has been bound and loosed many times already, therefore it is a moot point to try and create or prove some millennial timeline out of it.

When Scripture talks about Satan no longer deceiving the nations, it is referring to Satan as a Physical Being, and not in a general sense.
I'd like to ask you the same question that I asked Earburner . . .

Who is "the prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2?
 

Base12

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I'd like to ask you the same question that I asked Earburner . . .

Who is "the prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2?
Satan of course.

The verse above is a perfect example of Satan being 'bound' as in not in a physical body, but still having limited Power as Spirit to do certain things.

As a side note, 'Air' has many connections to Spirit.
 
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Base12

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BTW...

This phrase 'in time past' could be speaking of a previous life...

Ephesians 2:2
"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"


The word 'dead' could be literal, again as in a previous life...

Ephesians 2:1
"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins"
 

marks

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The verse above is a perfect example of Satan being 'bound' as in not in a physical body, but still having limited Power as Spirit to do certain things.
OK. Then being "bound" has a certain limitation. Satan is chained, but it's a long chain, something like that?

Revelation 20
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

So then while Satan is not incarnate, he cannot deceive? Only when he has a body?
 

Base12

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Help me out here . . . point me to a passage in Scripture that tells me this.

I already did. Pharaoh was the 'Dragon'... literally in physical form.

I will expand...

Although I'm not Amillenial, what I'm about to post may lead some credence to OP's viewpoints.

I believe This verse...

Revelation 12:14
"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent"


...is speaking of the past. Sarah is the Woman. The Wilderness was the Exodus.

The following verse is quite possibly the moment when Satan had his first incarnation into Human Form as Pharaoh...

Revelation 12:9
"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him"


So now Satan is Pharaoh...

Ezekiel 29:3
"Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself"


...and tries to drown the 'Woman' in the Red Sea...

Revelation 12:15
"And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood"


The Woman (Sarah) has now become the Nation of Israel. The Earth dries up the Sea so that the Israelites could cross...

Revelation 12:16
"And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth"


Thus begins the war of Satan vs. Humanity...

Revelation 12:17
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ"


Each successive incarnation of Satan into Human Form becomes a Head of the Beast...

Isaiah 14:12
"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"


Please note that Lucifer didn't 'fall and become Satan'. It's the other way around.

The already fallen Satan, in Spirit Form, *became* Lucifer in Physical Form...

Isaiah 14:16
"They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms"


See? Satan becoming a Man.
 

Earburner

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Where will I find this teaching in the Bible?
That is exactly what the Apostle Paul is WARNING US about!!
1 Tim. 4[1] Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
[2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
 

Base12

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OK. Then being "bound" has a certain limitation. Satan is chained, but it's a long chain, something like that?
Perhaps.

I will meditate on your question some more so that I can articulate a better answer.

In the mean time, think of the 'Chain' as a way of preventing Satan from being birthed. That is its main function.

This all relates to the Restrainer. The Restrainer is not the Holy Ghost. The Restrainer's job is to prevent Satan from being birthed.

In some ways, the Chain is the Restrainer, but more specifically, I believe the Restrainer is Apollyon/Abaddon.

So then while Satan is not incarnate, he cannot deceive? Only when he has a body?
When bound, Satan is able to corrupt Mankind 'Spiritually'. And I mean that literally.

Satan cannot 'physically' deceive (e.g. working miracles) as he has not the wherewithall to do so until he is incarnate.
 
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Base12

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That is exactly what the Apostle Paul is WARNING US about!!
1 Tim. 4[1] Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
[2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Oh please.

Come down off your High Horse and realize the same can be said about you or anyone else here.

:rolleyes:
 

marks

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BTW...

This phrase 'in time past' could be speaking of a previous life...

Ephesians 2:2
"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"


The word 'dead' could be literal, again as in a previous life...

Ephesians 2:1
"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins"
I think those interpretations disregard the context.

Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

In your proposed interpretation, this would mean that in a past life we were dead, and then being born into this life we are born spiritually alive in Christ?

In past lives, you walked according to the prince of the power of the air, that is, if he wasn't incarnate, and if he was . . . well, I could go on, just the same,

He made us alive when we were dead in sins. I really don't see anything that points me to past lives, only that sin is death, and we've been saved from our sins being made alive.

Much love!
 

marks

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Perhaps.

I will meditate on your question some more so that I can articulate a better answer.

In the mean time, think of the 'Chain' as a way of preventing Satan from being birthed. That is its main function.

This all relates to the Restrainer. The Restrainer is not the Holy Ghost. The Restrainer's job is to prevent Satan from being birthed.

In some ways, the Chain is the Restrainer, but more specifically, I believe the Restrainer is Apollyon/Abaddon.


When bound, Satan is able to corrupt Mankind 'Spiritually'. And I mean that literally.

Satan cannot 'physically' deceive (e.g. working miracles) as he has not the wherewithall to do so until he is incarnate.

I think that the Bible is saying Satan will be confined for 1000 years, away from humanity. Apollyon more powerful than Satan? Hmm. I guess I just really don't see it.

Much love!
 

Base12

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RE-incarnation has NOTHING to do with the Christian faith!!
Sure it does. Jesus Himself taught it.

At one point in your life, you were TOLD that Reincarnation was not Biblical. You believed it 100% without ever bothering to double check whether these things be True or not. And now here we are.

I challenged the Forum to prove that Reincarnation was not Biblical here in this thread...

If Children come from Hell, how did they get there to begin with?

Not a single one of you came close to debunking it.

I realize this is a shocking thing to hear. It took me a few years to accept the fact that I was lied to for so long. It didn't happen over night, and likewise I don't expect you or anyone else here on the forum to pursue this avenue of enlightenment any time soon.

And just as you have a right to express your Amillennial opinions, I have a right to express mine.

Bottom line is this...

It's not that Reincarnation is unBiblical, because it is Biblical.

It's that the Christian must now let go of their hatred for Humanity that makes them LOVE the idea of 'Eternal Torment' or 'Total Annihilation'.

This is what the Christian's biggest hurdle is... letting go of hatred. Perhaps they were never really saved to begin with.

Would a Truly Saved person believe that God is Love and torments people forever?

I would say the odds are not in their favor.
 
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Base12

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Apollyon more powerful than Satan? Hmm. I guess I just really don't see it.

Much love!
Do you believe Apollyon is evil?

Apollyon does the work of the LORD, so of course he is more Powerful than Satan as he has God backing him up.

Apollyon is called the 'Destroyer' because his job is to destroy the Souls of those thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Note that his Locust Army goes after the Unsaved, not the Saved...

Revelation 9:4
"And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads"


Why would the 'bad guy' go after his own kind?

Once Apollyon is 'taken out of the way', the Man of Sin can be born...

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming"


BTW...
Mystery of Iniquity is the Biblical term for Reincarnation. Satan is Reincarnated as the Man of Sin.

;)
 

ScottA

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Do you read what I say, and quote for scripture?
If so, then you are not discerning the Lord's Truth of Himself within me.
I have quoted and have spoken about Romans 8:9, which is directly connected to Luke 11:13 and John 14:17-18. Everyone who is Born Again has had Jesus come to dwell with them forever, in the Person of His Holy Spirit.

But, none of that negates His Promise to physically and visibly return from Heaven, in the Glory of His Immortal Self.
2 Thes. 1[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Its apparent to me, that you also cannot study and speak of ALL of His Truth, all at the same time.
Only Jesus Himself is the Truth. He is the core of every topic and every subject that seeks truth.
I have indeed read what you wrote, and it is in what you have written that I have pointed out multiple errors that you have not reconciled with all of scripture, some of which I have pointed out to you.

But you are apparently acting on some tangent and now want to get back to it. Again, I will take things one at a time, starting with my next post.
 

Earburner

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Sure it does. Jesus Himself taught it.

At one point in your life, you were TOLD that Reincarnation was not Biblical. You believed it 100% without ever bothering to double check whether these things be True or not. And now here we are.

I challenged the Forum to prove that Reincarnation was not Biblical here in this thread...

If Children come from Hell, how did they get there to begin with?

Not single one of you came close to debunking it.

I realize this is a shocking thing to hear. It took me a few years to accept the fact that I was lied to for so long. It didn't happen over night, and likewise I don't expect you or anyone else here on the forum to pursue this avenue of enlightenment any time soon.

And just as you have a right to express your Amillennial opinions, I have a right to express mine.

Bottom line is this...

It's not that Reincarnation is unBiblical, because it is.

It's that the Christian must now let go of their hatred for Humanity that makes them LOVE the idea of 'Eternal Torment'.

This is what the Christian's biggest hurdle is... letting go of hatred. Perhaps they were never really saved to begin with.

Would a Truly Saved person believe that God is Love and torments people forever?

I would say the odds are not in their favor.
It is apparent that you DO NOT understand
1 Tim. 4[1] Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
[2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
You are fulfilling the above prophecy!!

Now, if you don't like that scripture, then you have a right to express your beliefs, by starting your own thread in another forum.
As for this one, me being the original poster, I am politely asking you to stay in synch with topic of this thread, and within the Christian focussed comments of the other posters, that join in for discussion.
Thank you,
Earburner
 

ScottA

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So, if you please, lets continue on this topic about "The Rest of The Dead".
Though many have already expressed their comments, What are your thoughts about that?

Are they the dead of the unsaved without Christ, or are they the dead of the saved in Christ?
How you view the issue on "a thousand years", shall determine your answer.
Revelation 20:5
"But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

As I have already said, "the rest of the dead" in the above passage refers not to "the dead in Christ" which are with Him and is Israel, and not "the living in Christ" which Paul referred to as "those who are alive and remain" (in the world), but are the dead of the gentiles who have died believing in Christ, but also "believed a lie" (the foretold "strong delusion") that He would come again in the flesh and therefore did not receive Him in spirit when He knocked and did not let Him in.
 

Waiting on him

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Note that his Locust Army goes after the Unsaved, not the Saved...
Something I find interesting is in the OT the locust have no king, but in the New Testament they suddenly have a king?
Could it be that the locust are simply something other than what we believe?