The Rest of The Dead

[Earburner]

You are assuming what I said means what you describe above, but that is not what I said. But in your assumption you also assume that He remained in the flesh and will forever be made of flesh and bone, as you said. But that is not biblical...and now I am repeating what I have already repeated many times already:

The flesh returns to dust and is destroyed with fervent heat and with fire, and only the spirit returns to God.
​

Which means that your error has Jesus not returning to God the Father. Which is biblically and spiritually impossible, and simply not true.

WHAT? I don't think that you fully understand the depth of what God the Son's Sacrifice is?
It wasn't only that He came to die the death of the Lamb of God's Sacrifice for a "day". HIs Sacrifice was forever, in His Identity of being one with us as OUR Brother, and we His many brethren.

 

[Earburner]

1 Thes. 4[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[Earburner]

Again, it is not biblical to say that God lied in the scriptures to say that the flesh body returns to the dust. So, from the get go your premise is to call God a liar

Are you saying that our flesh and blood bodies don't turn into dust after death?
I don't comprehend your meaning. Please be more clear.

 

[Earburner]

Again, it is not biblical to say that God lied in the scriptures to say that the flesh body returns to the dust. So, from the get go your premise is to call God a liar.

Why should I even read the rest of what you have written? You are apparently not up to hearing from God and believing, nor being reasonable.

And your idea of immortality is completely off. I too am immortal, as are all who have the gift of eternal life. But that immortality is not from being glorified with immortal flesh...but from being born of God, who is [only] spirit. And none of your understanding and quoting makes void the truth that the flesh returns to the dust and is destroyed. It just doesn't.

Yes, through faith in Christ, we do have the gift of His eternal life now 1 John 5:13, but we are not made to be Immortal, until Jesus returns from Heaven, to literally Redeem us. So, until that time of our redemption, we are only sealed by his Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 4:30

 

[Earburner]

^ All born again Christians, through faith in Christ, having recieved the Holy Spirit, and are in a state of tranistion, waiting for His appearance from Heaven, that we may be changed into His likeness.
You might say that its similar to the metamohisis of a caterpillar into a butterfly. Quite literally, we are waiting for our new bodies, while in our "cocoon" stage. But that shall NEVER take place, until He returns in AIR, in flaming fire! 2 Thes. ™
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Oh yes! It will be very PHYSICAL!! Especially for all the unsaved!

 

[Earburner]

^ 2 Thes. 1:7-10

 

[ScottA]

Then might I point you back to the FIRST miracle, being that of Jesus's flesh and blood birth through the virgin Mary. That event most assuredly did not follow "certain physical wordly laws in place".
So, why in His death and Resurrection must it apply then?
And you think that I DON'T understand?

The whole worldly thing is your issue, not mine. But you cannot claim that God is a liar and Jesus has gone against the scriptures, just because He is God and can do any sort of miracles He wants. It doesn't work that way. His word is good.

So, yes, God can manifest anything He wants to, but He is holy and will not and has not gone against His word...which I have quoted to you and you cannot reconcile nor dispute. His word is final, not yours.

 

[ScottA]

As I said- in this Age of God's Grace, our F&B bodies DO TURN to dust, hence THE NEED and requirement for OUR resurrection into HIS LIKENESS.

In Acts, the disciples watched Jesus with their own eyes Ascend into Heaven. IN His Ascension, He was NOT a spirit.
Furthermore, the two angels said:
Acts 1:10-11,Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Jesus physically ascended into Heaven, and upon his return, shall descend from Heaven physically.

You are forgetting the scripture that I quote earlier:

John 3:8
"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”​

You don't know the scriptures. You don't know that the apostles only saw Jesus leave, but did not see Him arrive at the right hand of the Father, which was His ascension of His spirit only which they could not see. You don't know that the "like manner" was in the like manner of the Father, whom is spirit, which the apostles witnessed in the only way that men can witness without God being untrue to His word. These things all agree, but you do not agree with all that is written. All that they otherwise saw was Jesus ascend into the air, into a cloud. That's all.

You don't know what you are talking about.

 

[ScottA]

WHAT? I don't think that you fully understand the depth of what God the Son's Sacrifice is?
It wasn't only that He came to die the death of the Lamb of God's Sacrifice for a "day". HIs Sacrifice was forever, in His Identity of being one with us as OUR Brother, and we His many brethren.

You are acting on your emotions, fleshly emotions.

"Forever?" God is forever. God is spirit. And your flesh won't let you receive this very simple truth. Apparently, the old man is not dead.

 

[ScottA]

Are you saying that our flesh and blood bodies don't turn into dust after death?
I don't comprehend your meaning. Please be more clear.

No...that is what you are saying. Or worse, that the flesh is glorified, making God less than His perfect spiritual self, making God like men, instead of men like God (Whom is spirit).

On the contrary, I am saying what the scriptures say, what I have always said and repeated many times against your many arguments against all that is written, that the flesh returns to the dust which is destroyed by fervent heat and with fire, and the [only] the spirit returns to God who gave it.

 

[ScottA]

Yes, through faith in Christ, we do have the gift of His eternal life now 1 John 5:13, but we are not made to be Immortal, until Jesus returns from Heaven, to literally Redeem us. So, until that time of our redemption, we are only sealed by his Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 4:30

No.

"That which is born of the spirit is spirit." He who has been born again of the spirit of God "has passed from death to life" everlasting (past tense).

How many things must I quote?

The day of redemption is not a day when Christ comes to glorify the flesh, but a day that He comes, "that where He is, we might be also." Which is at the right hand of the Father, whom is spirit. "God is spirit." Have you not read: "The flesh profits nothing."

 

[ScottA]

^ All born again Christians, through faith in Christ, having recieved the Holy Spirit, and are in a state of tranistion, waiting for His appearance from Heaven, that we may be changed into His likeness.
You might say that its similar to the metamohisis of a caterpillar into a butterfly. Quite literally, we are waiting for our new bodies, while in our "cocoon" stage. But that shall NEVER take place, until He returns in AIR, in flaming fire! 2 Thes. ™
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Oh yes! It will be very PHYSICAL!! Especially for all the unsaved!

That is not what the whole of the scriptures say. Which means you are just pitting one word from God against another. You're just making things worse.

 

[Earburner]

Our salvation is a twofold process.
1. We must be born again of His Holy Spirit now, so that we can be sealed
2. unto the day of redemption.
As of yet, no one who is of faith in the Lord Jesus, has been redeemed. We all, the dead in Christ, and we who are now remain, are still waiting for the Day of Christ and is appearance FROM Heaven.

Just prior to that day of His return, the event of men having no faith, to believe that God is, is WHEN Jesus shall visibly return from Heaven, of which shall be a simultaneous event of redemption for those that have been sealed by the Holy Spirit, but against those who are none of His.

I shall repeat what I had previously wrote:
All born again Christians, through faith in Christ, having recieved the Holy Spirit, are in a state of transition, waiting for His appearance from Heaven, that we may be changed into His likeness.

You might say that its similar to the metamophisis of a caterpillar into a butterfly. Quite literally, we are waiting for our new bodies, while in our "coccoon" stage. But that shall NEVER take place, until He returns in the AIR, in flaming fire! 2 Thes. 1
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Oh yes! It will be very PHYSICAL!! Especially for all the unsaved!

 

[Earburner]

Please pay special attention to the two words of "when", as shown in KJV- 2 Thes. 1:7-10.
That word is directly connected to three (3) ACTIONS, that shall take place simulultaneously.

1. The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven...
2. (The Lord Jesus) "taking vengeance" ON ALL the unsaved.
3. (The Lord Jesus) shall come to be glorified IN ALL HIS Saints....ON THAT day.

Aside from the resurrected Saints escaping the Wrath of God, there will be NO other
Escapees left alive, to go and supposedly repopulate the earth, for 1000 years, via their "flesh and blood" bodies.
WHY??
1 Corinthians 15[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption

 

[Earburner]

Thats why Jesus said: "Ye must be born again".
For without His Holy Spirit within you NOW, while you still have breath, or that you have died in faith believing,.....you CAN'T BE resurrected when He comes, nor ever!!
Why?
You are NONE of His!! Romans 8:9

 

[ScottA]

Our salvation is a twofold process.
1. We must be born again of His Holy Spirit now, so that we can be sealed
2. unto the day of redemption.
As of yet, no one who is of faith in the Lord Jesus, has been redeemed. We all, the dead in Christ, and we who are now remain, are still waiting for the Day of Christ and is appearance FROM Heaven.

Just prior to that day of His return, the event of men having no faith, to believe that God is, is WHEN Jesus shall visibly return from Heaven, of which shall be a simultaneous event of redemption for those that have been sealed by the Holy Spirit, but against those who are none of His.

I shall repeat what I had previously wrote:
All born again Christians, through faith in Christ, having recieved the Holy Spirit, are in a state of transition, waiting for His appearance from Heaven, that we may be changed into His likeness.

You might say that its similar to the metamophisis of a caterpillar into a butterfly. Quite literally, we are waiting for our new bodies, while in our "coccoon" stage. But that shall NEVER take place, until He returns in the AIR, in flaming fire! 2 Thes. 1
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Oh yes! It will be very PHYSICAL!! Especially for all the unsaved!

It's not that what you quote is not true--it is. But the problem is that you cannot reconcile those verses with those that would appear to say otherwise; and as a result, you preach another gospel than that of the bible--because you do not agree with the other verses, nor can you explain them.

 

[Earburner]

It's not that what you quote is not true--it is. But the problem is that you cannot reconcile those verses with those that would appear to say otherwise; and as a result, you preach another gospel than that of the bible--because you do not agree with the other verses, nor can you explain them.

Sir, I vehemently doubt that very much!!
It is you that attempting to misconstrue the truth of the gospel, which is exactly what the Apostles taught, aka "the common faith" (Titus 1:4), and not for any other reason, except that you choose to be "willingly ignorant", as the scriptures say in 2 Peter 3:5-7
If you doubt that, then you must tell us all how it is that you have become immortal without us, so that we all may follow.

 

[ScottA]

Sir, I vehemently doubt that very much!!
It is you that attempting to misconstrue the truth of the gospel, which is exactly what the Apostles taught, aka "the common faith" (Titus 1:4), and not for any other reason, except that you choose to be "willingly ignorant", as the scriptures say in 2 Peter 3:5-7
If you doubt that, then you must tell us all how it is that you have become immortal without us, so that we all may follow.

That can be said in 3 verses:

1 Corinthians 15:36
"Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies."

John 3:7
"Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’"

Romans 6:6
"knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin."​

Thus, anyone who says they are born again of the spirit of God "was" made new with Christ at that time of His crucifixion, which has "done away with" that "body of sin" (meaning the "old man" has "died")...or a) he is lying to himself, or b) he has not received it, in which case such a one will not see Christ until the end, when He comes again.

The difference is, for those who have received Him and received the words of truth that since the time of His crucifixion, and once they have been born of the spirit of God, "It is finished." Because, in addition to the verses that pertain to those who do not receive the whole truth, there are also verses that for those who receive it. But only believing part of what is written, is unbelief, and the makings of another gospel.

Which, if you can receive it (Him), means He has come/returned already.

 

[Earburner]

That can be said in 3 verses:

1 Corinthians 15:36
"Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies."

John 3:7
"Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’"

Romans 6:6
"knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin."​

Thus, anyone who says they are born again of the spirit of God "was" made new with Christ at that time of His crucifixion, which has "done away with" that "body of sin" (meaning the "old man" has "died")...or a) he is lying to himself, or b) he has not received it, in which case such a one will not see Christ until the end, when He comes again.

The difference is, for those who have received Him and received the words of truth that since the time of His crucifixion, and once they have been born of the spirit of God, "It is finished." Because, in addition to the verses that pertain to those who do not receive the whole truth, there are also verses that for those who receive it. But only believing part of what is written, is unbelief, and the makings of another gospel.

Which, if you can receive it (Him), means He has come/returned already.

I believe nothing in part! I have been born again of his Holy Spirit, knowing perfectly, that as long as I have "this body of death", I am now only risen with Christ spiritually, having the Promise that i am sealed unto the Day of redemption (resurrection/immortality).

Are you one those who claim that the resurrection is past?
2 Timothy 2[16] But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
[17] And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
[18] Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[ScottA]

I believe nothing in part! I have been born again of his Holy Spirit, knowing perfectly, that as long as I have "this body of death", I am now only risen with Christ spiritually, having the Promise that i am sealed unto the Day of redemption (resurrection/immortality).

Are you one those who claim that the resurrection is past?
2 Timothy 2[16] But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
[17] And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
[18] Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

I might also ask you if you are one of those who claim that Christ has not resurrected?

The answer is the same for all who are in Christ, and only different for those who do not believe all that He said, that do not receive and let Him in when He knocks, but wait for what He did not promise and therefore do not see Him until the end. Anyone who says Christ is in them but says He has not returned already, is a liar.

So...

1. Did Jesus go to the Father? Yes, or No?
2. Has He since come into you? Yes, or No?

If Jesus went to the Father and then came again into you -- He has come again. Any other answer makes you a liar. Which is it? Yes or No?