The Rest of The Dead

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mjrhealth

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The flesh returns to the dust and the elements of the earth which are destroyed by fervent heat and with fire, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Nothing else is biblical. There is no such thing as a "glorified flesh body."
This sort of does Enoch and Elijah in does it not.'

I do not completely understand the events to come, but @Earburner is quiet right about a number of things, It seems that all the argument is over flesh and blood, which I do not have understanding. This I do know . we who are born of the spirit, received His Spirit, have being to the cross, have now as HE did, passed from death to life, for us there is no more judgement, for we now walk that narrow path that leads to life. When Christ comes, the scriptures say, in the twinkling of an eye we will all be changed. We who are pregnant with the seed of God, and who have nourished this seed by His word,

Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

What we change into I do not pretend to understand but Christ nor Elijah nor Enoch left a body behind. Until l I get further understanding im not going to guess. Its one I dont think on this one often.
 

Earburner

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I might also ask you if you are one of those who claim that Christ has not resurrected?

The answer is the same for all who are in Christ, and only different for those who do not believe all that He said, that do not receive and let Him in when He knocks, but wait for what He did not promise and therefore do not see Him until the end. Anyone who says Christ is in them but says He has not returned already, is a liar.

So...
  1. Did Jesus go to the Father? Yes, or No?
  2. Has He since come into you? Yes, or No?
If Jesus went to the Father and then came again into you -- He has come again. Any other answer makes you a liar. Which is it? Yes or No?
I'm a liar?
Of course I agree with what you just did say, but you are only telling HALF of the truth.
Why is it that you will only agree to half of KJV- 2 Thes. 1:7-10?
Don't you know that you are following after Hymenaeus and Philetus in 2 Timothy 2:16?
 

Earburner

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What we change into I do not pretend to understand but Christ nor Elijah nor Enoch left a body behind. Until l I get further understanding im not going to guess. Its one I dont think on this one often.
Yes, we do not know exactly of how we shall appear, when we are resurrected in the Day of Christ's physical return, in flaming fire. All we know is that we shall see Him as He is, and we shall be changed in His likeness, in that Day.

As to Enoch, Elijah and Moses, please remember Christ's words of truth. Prior to Christ's Resurrection and Ascension, NO man had yet ascended into Heaven.
John 3[12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
 

Earburner

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No.

"That which is born of the spirit is spirit." He who has been born again of the spirit of God "has passed from death to life" everlasting (past tense).

How many things must I quote?

The day of redemption is not a day when Christ comes to glorify the flesh, but a day that He comes, "that where He is, we might be also." Which is at the right hand of the Father, whom is spirit. "God is spirit." Have you not read: "The flesh profits nothing."
What you have quoted is true, but you are misconstruing the application of those quotes, thus forming your own conclusion.
Yes, "the flesh profits nothing", meaning our bodies of "flesh and blood" now, because our bodies are still mortal. We have NOT YET been "changed"/resurrected into the likeness of His Immortality.
At the moment of this present state, only Jesus after his Resurrection, HAS the capacity and ability to appear in the spiritual and the physical, by his will.

Do you not recall, that in the room, with the disciples altogether, except Thomas, the doors were shut for fear of the Jews, and Jesus suddenly appeared to them IN THE ROOM, as his physical, resurrected self?
Then 8 days later again, He did the same thing, when Thomas was there.

How did Jesus get in the room, showing Himself being physically in their midst, with no one opening the door??
Please go and read it, and then explain.
John 20:19-28
 

ScottA

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This sort of does Enoch and Elijah in does it not.'

I do not completely understand the events to come, but @Earburner is quiet right about a number of things, It seems that all the argument is over flesh and blood, which I do not have understanding. This I do know . we who are born of the spirit, received His Spirit, have being to the cross, have now as HE did, passed from death to life, for us there is no more judgement, for we now walk that narrow path that leads to life. When Christ comes, the scriptures say, in the twinkling of an eye we will all be changed. We who are pregnant with the seed of God, and who have nourished this seed by His word,

Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

What we change into I do not pretend to understand but Christ nor Elijah nor Enoch left a body behind. Until l I get further understanding im not going to guess. Its one I dont think on this one often.
One need look no further than to God, whom is spirit to know what the future is for those that are His and are born of His spirit: it is spirit, just as He is spirit.

To say otherwise, one would have to call God a liar or one who contradicts Himself. But that is just from lack of understanding, lack of belief, and an inability to reconcile every word of truth.

God is spirit, and there is a reason why Jesus said that no one has seen God, and why John declared that He will not be revealed until we are like Him and see Him as He is.
 
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mjrhealth

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One need look no further that to God, whom is spirit to know what the future is for those that are His and are born of His spirit: it is spirit, just as He is spirit.

To say otherwise, one would have to call God a liar or one who contradicts Himself. But that is just from lack of understanding, lack of belief, and an inability to reconcile every word of truth.

God is spirit, and there is a reason why Jesus said that no one has seen God, and why John declared that He will not be revealed until we are like Him and see Him as He is.
But than since Christ men have seeing God and I am sure in the book of Enoch He did to.. Id have to re read.
 

ScottA

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I'm a liar?
Of course I agree with what you just did say, but you are only telling HALF of the truth.
Why is it that you will only agree to half of KJV- 2 Thes. 1:7-10?
Don't you know that you are following after Hymenaeus and Philetus in 2 Timothy 2:16?
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
I have not excluded any of God's word. On the contrary, I have pointed out to you that your own beliefs do not reconcile with what I have quoted that you yourself have no answer for except to make your own HALF claims.

So, even though the scriptures already declare it, here and now I will reconcile it all for you:

Any and all who are "in Christ" have already "passed from death to life", because Christ Himself has...and they are in Him, and Him in them. As He said, "that they may be one, even as we are one." Which Paul clarified was not by any mass future event, "but every man in his own order." Which means it is correct that some should say that Jesus has come already, while others cannot say the same is true, because their order has not yet come.

So, it is not that those who say Jesus is here, are right or wrong, making those who deny that He is here yet right or wrong. But rather that each speaks for himself according to what is true in "his own order."

And although you could not reconcile these matters, I do hope you can receive it. For these are His words, not vain, and not mine.
 

ScottA

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What you have quoted is true, but you are misconstruing the application of those quotes, thus forming your own conclusion.
Yes, "the flesh profits nothing", meaning our bodies of "flesh and blood" now, because our bodies are still mortal. We have NOT YET been "changed"/resurrected into the likeness of His Immortality.
At the moment of this present state, only Jesus after his Resurrection, HAS the capacity and ability to appear in the spiritual and the physical, by his will.

Do you not recall, that in the room, with the disciples altogether, except Thomas, the doors were shut for fear of the Jews, and Jesus suddenly appeared to them IN THE ROOM, as his physical, resurrected self?
Then 8 days later again, He did the same thing, when Thomas was there.

How did Jesus get in the room, showing Himself being physically in their midst, with no one opening the door??
Please go and read it, and then explain.
John 20:19-28
Again, while I do indeed recall these things...you yourself apparently do not recall that all men came into being at God's word, even those before what you have quoted occurred in its time, but rather from the beginning.

Your argument is as void as all that was not was void before He spoke it into being.
 

Earburner

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Again, while I do indeed recall these things...you yourself apparently do not recall that all men came into being at God's word, even those before what you have quoted occurred in its time, but rather from the beginning.

Your argument is as void as all that was not was void before He spoke it into being.
For all things that are inanimate, that is so!

As for Adam, he was created by God from that which is also inanimate, the dust of the earth.
God did breathe into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul, as is also the case for all life, that breathes the breath of life, aka Oxygen.
Genesis 2:7
Genesis 7:21-22.

However, after Adam and Eve, all men/women, of "flesh and blood", are pro-created through their seed. Genesis 4:25

In that combination, of the dust of the earth and the breathing of Oxygen, man became a living soul, as is the case for all of such life that breathes and moves on the face of the earth.
 

Earburner

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Any and all who are "in Christ" have already "passed from death to life", because Christ Himself has...and they are in Him, and Him in them. As He said, "that they may be one, even as we are one." Which Paul clarified was not by any mass future event, "but every man in his own order." Which means it is correct that some should say that Jesus has come already, while others cannot say the same is true, because their order has not yet come.
YES! You can say that a hundred times and I will always agree with it! Why?
Ans. Its the first state of the twofold process of our salvation, unto the Day of our REDEMPTION of being CHANGED into the likeness of His spiritual and PHYSICAL Immortality.

We all, who are born again, are in Christ and have passed from death unto Life, being one in Christ with God the Father, but we HAVE NOT YET been redeemed by our bodily resurrection, into HIS LIKENESS. Jesus showed the disciples plainly, and said that He was NOT a spirit!
Why do you deny His words?
 

Earburner

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So, it is not that those who say Jesus is here, are right or wrong, making those who deny that He is here yet right or wrong. But rather that each speaks for himself according to what is true in "his own order."
I think that the argument of what you present is found in how you said the above.
No born again christian denies that Jesus is HERE in the Person of the Holy Spirit now!

However, the same ARE waiting now, as was those that have waited, but are now "asleep" in Christ.
For ALL, we are waiting for the fulness of His Glory to be revealed from Heaven, in flaming fire for our REDEMPTION!
 

ScottA

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But than since Christ men have seeing God and I am sure in the book of Enoch He did to.. Id have to re read.
One must be able to reconcile that "No one has seen God", with all seeing God in the Judgement.

Biblically, this only occurs by two means: either by seeing Jesus, or in death. Which is to say, seeing God is either life or death. In the case of Enoch, God is the god of the living, but he saw Him in death, which is to say regarding his life in the flesh: "he was not."
 
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ScottA

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For all things that are inanimate, that is so!

As for Adam, he was created by God from that which is also inanimate, the dust of the earth.
God did breathe into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul, as is also the case for all life, that breathes the breath of life, aka Oxygen.
Genesis 2:7
Genesis 7:21-22.

However, after Adam and Eve, all men/women, of "flesh and blood", are pro-created through their seed. Genesis 4:25

In that combination, of the dust of the earth and the breathing of Oxygen, man became a living soul, as is the case for all of such life that breathes and moves on the face of the earth.
While that may be a good mechanical understanding of the life of man and beast in the world of flesh and blood, it is all a vapor, vanity, except for the breath of God, which is spirit.
 

ScottA

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YES! You can say that a hundred times and I will always agree with it! Why?
Ans. Its the first state of the twofold process of our salvation, unto the Day of our REDEMPTION of being CHANGED into the likeness of His spiritual and PHYSICAL Immortality.

We all, who are born again, are in Christ and have passed from death unto Life, being one in Christ with God the Father, but we HAVE NOT YET been redeemed by our bodily resurrection, into HIS LIKENESS. Jesus showed the disciples plainly, and said that He was NOT a spirit!
Why do you deny His words?
And that is where you depart from the gospel of Christ, whom did not commit His "PHYSICAL" body to the Father, but only His spirit. That "PHYSICAL" part...you have added or believed from the false teachings of men, for it is not in the scriptures.
 

ScottA

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I think that the argument of what you present is found in how you said the above.
No born again christian denies that Jesus is HERE in the Person of the Holy Spirit now!

However, the same ARE waiting now, as was those that have waited, but are now "asleep" in Christ.
For ALL, we are waiting for the fulness of His Glory to be revealed from Heaven, in flaming fire for our REDEMPTION!
You are saying the words but not fully understanding.

"Flaming fire" is God...who's times of vengeance began with the times of the gentiles.

Also, Jesus did say that He would send "another", but the scriptures go on to clarify that "Christ in you"...is not "another", but specifically "Christ" by name. Which, then means that while some definitely "wait" upon the Lord, to those who receive Him "now is the acceptable time", "today."

Incidentally, the passage "wait upon the Lord" was not to those of this time...but to those who lived and died before He first appeared.
 
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Earburner

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1. You are saying the words but not fully understanding.
"Flaming fire" is God...who's times of vengeance began with the times of the gentiles.
2. Also, Jesus did say that He would send "another", but the scriptures go on to clarify that "Christ in you"...is not "another", but specifically "Christ" by name. Which, then means that while some definitely "wait" upon the Lord, to those who receive Him "now is the acceptable time", "today."
3. Incidentally, the passage "wait upon the Lord" was not to those of this time...but to those who lived and died before He first appeared.
1. Absolutely! Jesus is "God The Son" .

2. You tell only half the truth, making a whole lie.
I have shown that "His Coming" is a twofold process, for both our Salvation and our Redemption.

3. Not so! You do err. ALL born again Christians are to wait for His Son from Heaven.
1 Thes. 1[6] And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
[7] So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
[8] For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
[9] For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
 

Earburner

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While that may be a good mechanical understanding of the life of man and beast in the world of flesh and blood, it is all a vapor, vanity, except for the breath of God, which is spirit.
My explanation of it, is scriptural and 100% of the Holy Spirit.
Man became a living soul, he didn't recieve a soul.
There is no such thing as "an eternal soul" given to men, in the act of our creation.
However, if you do believe that is so, then you also falsely believe that all animal life also have "an eternal soul", whereas they also have the breath of life in their nostrils. Genesis 7:22.

But we all should know that animals do not have eternal existence of any kind. In God's creation of life on earth, Eternal life/existence was only offered to man by God, being that through the Tree of Life.
 

Earburner

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And that is where you depart from the gospel of Christ, whom did not commit His "PHYSICAL" body to the Father, but only His spirit. That "PHYSICAL" part...you have added or believed from the false teachings of men, for it is not in the scriptures.
Please go see Thomas, and then all the disciples, of whom it is spoken of, that they DID SEE Jesus Bodily Ascend into Heaven.
 

ScottA

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My explanation of it, is scriptural and 100% of the Holy Spirit.
Man became a living soul, he didn't recieve a soul.
There is no such thing as "an eternal soul" given to men, in the act of our creation.
However, if you do believe that is so, then you also falsely believe that all animal life also have "an eternal soul", whereas they also have the breath of life in their nostrils. Genesis 7:22.

But we all should know that animals do not have eternal existence of any kind. In God's creation of life on earth, Eternal life/existence was only offered to man by God, being that through the Tree of Life.
That is cool...but that is not what we are talking about.

We are talking about any flesh inheriting the kingdom of God, and biblically none does.
 
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ScottA

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1. Absolutely! Jesus is "God The Son" .

2. You tell only half the truth, making a whole lie.
I have shown that "His Coming" is a twofold process, for both our Salvation and our Redemption.

3. Not so! You do err. ALL born again Christians are to wait for His Son from Heaven.
1 Thes. 1[6] And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
[7] So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
[8] For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
[9] For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
2. No, you have not shown a twofold process, you have only shown a twofold interpretation which is only half of what is written. And you have not reconciled all of what is written, because your interpretation does not work with all of scripture, so you accuse me of doing the very thing you are doing. Which is called "psychological projection." You must be democrat.

3. And when He comes, what then? And if He has come, what then? (Rhetorical) After first going to the Father He has come to me and millions and He is in us and we in Him...meaning He has come/returned already. We are His witnesses.

You on the other hand do not (as John wrote) "see Him as He is", which is in the glory of the Father, whom is spirit. This you do by unbelief, not believing all that is written and all that He said, putting Him off until some time in the future which He did not foretell except for those who do not know Him. In the case of unbelief, you will see Him no more until the end, for which He said, "The world sees me no more." This you do to yourself. So be it.
 
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