The Rest of The Dead

[ScottA]

Please go see Thomas, and then all the disciples, of whom it is spoken of, that they DID SEE Jesus Bodily Ascend into Heaven.

You have not been perceiving all that you have read.

It is written that Jesus Himself said "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Therefore, the disciples did not see what could not be seen--they only saw Him ascend in the flesh...but in the spirit they did not see any such thing as you now claim. Because it would be impossible to see Him in the spirit, therefore they did not see it.

This, as John explained only comes when we "see Him as He is"...which, if you will agree that He went to and is One with the Father--is spirit.

But that has all been a stumbling block for you.

 

[Earburner]

2. No, you have not shown a twofold process, you have only shown a twofold interpretation which is only half of what is written. And you have not reconciled all of what is written, because your interpretation does not work with all of scripture, so you blame me of doing the very thing you are doing. You must be democrat.

3. And when He comes, what then? And if He has come, what then? (Rhetorical) After first going to the Father He has come to me and millions and He is in us and we in Him...meaning He has come/returned already. We are His witnesses.

You on the other hand do not (as John wrote) "see Him as He is", which is in the glory of the Father, whom is spirit. This you do by unbelief, not believing all that is written and all that He said, putting Him off until some time in the future which He did not foretell except for those who do not know Him. In which in the case of unbelief, you will see Him no more until the end, for which He said, "The world sees me no more." This you do to yourself. So be it.

One scripture suffices all of the nonscensical words that you tend to string together, from the scriptures out of context.
Acts 1[8] But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is *come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
* Note: Unto Salvation, while in this flesh.

[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
[10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
[11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come
**in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
** Note: Unto Redemption, in our resurrection.

When you were born again of His Holy Spirit, did you SEE Jesus coming to you, with your own eyes, as did the disciples SEE Jesus when He Ascended?
I am absolutely positive that you did not!!

 

[Earburner]

Therefore, since you did not SEE Jesus coming to you in your salvation, it is evident that you have not been redeemed yet! Because if you were, you WOULD have seen Him coming to you IN LIKE MANNER, as the disciples SAW Him Ascend!

 

[Earburner]

You have not been perceiving all that you have read.

It is written that Jesus Himself said "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Therefore, the disciples did not see what could not be seen--they only saw Him ascend in the flesh...but in the spirit they did not see any such thing as you now claim. Because it would be impossible to see Him in the spirit, therefore they did not see it.

This, as John explained only comes when we "see Him as He is"...which, if you will agree that He went to and is One with the Father--is spirit.

But that has all been a stumbling block for you.

Lol, I have not tripped over any stumbling block, but I must say that you most surely have, and as a result, you are now become a stumbling block for others!

 

[ScottA]

One scripture suffices all of the nonscensical words that you tend to string together, from the scriptures out of context.
Acts 1[8] But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is *come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
* Note: Unto Salvation, while in this flesh.

[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
[10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
[11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come
**in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
** Note: Unto Redemption, in our resurrection.

When you were born again of His Holy Spirit, did you SEE Jesus coming to you, with your own eyes, as did the disciples SEE Jesus when He Ascended?
I am absolutely positive that you did not!!

You have not described what should take place, nor is that my witness.

As I said, the disciples did not see what Jesus said they could not see, nor is that what the two men spoke of. But rather that they saw what they could see of Him ascending whereby they had proof that He had gone to be with the Father, joining Him in spirit. Thus, the "like manner" is not of the flesh and of the world, but the "like manner" of God, whom is spirit. Which is to say that He does not so much as return to the world, for He said, "the world sees me no more", but rather that He would come again, "that where I am, you might be also"...which is One with God in spirit, for God is spirit. All of which, has me perfectly on context, for the context is not of this world, but of the kingdom. And you, you are not only the one out of context, you do so against the Spirit.

 

[Earburner]

You have not described what should take place, nor is that my witness.

I have reiterated what THEY SAW! My description means nothing.

As I said, the disciples did not see what Jesus said they could not see, nor is that what the two men spoke of. But rather that they saw what they could see of Him ascending whereby they had proof that He had gone to be with the Father, joining Him in spirit. Thus, the "like manner" is not of the flesh and of the world, but the "like manner" of God, whom is spirit.

And now you admitt that the disciples DID SEE Jesus bodily ascend. Whether that was 20 feet off the ground or 1000 feet, THEY SAW Him off of the earth and in the AIR!

Thus, the "like manner" is not of the flesh and of the world, but the "like manner" of God, whom is spirit. Which is to say that He does not so much as return to the world, for He said, "the world sees me no more", but rather that He would come again, "that where I am, you might be also"...

It sure is "of the flesh", His NEW Resurrected flesh, which is "flesh and BONE" , and NOT that of "flesh and blood". You still prefer to ignore His very own words!!
Of course "the world sees me no more", He is at the Right Hand of the Father, still with the ability to be flesh and bone, upon His Glorious and Fiery return.

Please finish the verses that you quote, and stop mixing and blending,
John 14[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
> So, when shall that be, that He will come in the manner in which He left, receive us unto Himself, that we may be where He is?
1. At our death? No!
2. When we are born again of His Spirit? No!
3. When He Returns in all His Fiery Glory from Heaven? YES!!

How is #3 the correct answer?
Truth: You and I are still here, and not there with Him yet!
But we are waiting for Him to return from Heaven, as Paul said that all Christians should do!!

 

[Earburner]

So now that we Christians are suppose to be waiting and looking for God's Son Jesus to return from Heaven, as Paul said, lets look elsewhere in the NT for the same.
KJV 2 Peter 3[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

> Now, just so you don't get side tracked by the word "God", lets look for the similarity of what Paul said about "when" all of the above WILL take place.

2 Thes. 1[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

> ALL of the above will be a simultaneous event.

> Why it is, that you want to say anything contrary to the above, so as to discount it, is nothing more than being a "scoffer" and revealing the subtle benevolence of satan, by "that spirit of antichrist".

 

[ScottA]

I have reiterated what THEY SAW! My description means nothing.
And now you admitt that the disciples DID SEE Jesus bodily ascend. Whether that was 20 feet off the ground or 1000 feet, THEY SAW Him off of the earth and in the AIR!

It sure is "of the flesh", His NEW Resurrected flesh, which is "flesh and BONE" , and NOT that of "flesh and blood". You still prefer to ignore His very own words!!
Of course "the world sees me no more", He is at the Right Hand of the Father, still with the ability to be flesh and bone, upon His Glorious and Fiery return.

Please finish the verses that you quote, and stop mixing and blending,
John 14[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
> So, when shall that be, that He will come in the manner in which He left, receive us unto Himself, that we may be where He is?
1. At our death? No!
2. When we are born again of His Spirit? No!
3. When He Returns in all His Fiery Glory from Heaven? YES!!

How is #3 the correct answer?
Truth: You and I are still here, and not there with Him yet!
But we are waiting for Him to return from Heaven, as Paul said that all Christians should do!!

So now that we Christians are suppose to be waiting and looking for God's Son Jesus to return from Heaven, as Paul said, lets look elsewhere in the NT for the same.
KJV 2 Peter 3[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

> Now, just so you don't get side tracked by the word "God", lets look for the similarity of what Paul said about "when" all of the above WILL take place.

2 Thes. 1[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

> ALL of the above will be a simultaneous event.

> Why it is, that you want to say anything contrary to the above, so as to discount it, is nothing more than being a "scoffer" and revealing the subtle benevolence of satan, by "that spirit of antichrist".

As I said, you read and even quote the words but you do not understand their meaning. Even when it blatantly states that "the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night", you do not perceive the hour. This is that night, and those things listed in the scriptures you quoted are happening all around us as we speak. But you are like those who did not know Him when He first came.

You make the same mistake as those who crucified Him. You do not even know that you are among those who are now saying "Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." You are among the scoffers that were foretold, saying:

"You and I are still here, and not there with Him yet!" -- But you only speak for yourself.​

As for me, I told you He is with me now.

 

[Earburner]

As I said, you read and even quote the words but you do not understand their meaning. Even when it blatantly states that "the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night", you do not perceive the hour. This is that night, and those things listed in the scriptures you quoted are happening all around us as we speak. But you are like those who did not know Him when He first came.

You make the same mistake as those who crucified Him. You do not even know that you are among those who are now saying "Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." You are among the scoffers that were foretold, saying:

"You and I are still here, and not there with Him yet!" -- But you only speak for yourself.​

As for me, I told you He is with me now.

Again, you only speak half the truth, thus making a whole lie!
YES! He is with you now, but you ARE NOT yet with Him!
As long as you are in your "flesh and blood" body, you have not yet been "changed" /resurrected into your NEW immortal body, that is in the likeness of His.
Please digest the Lord's words:
John 14 [2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

We who are now born again of His Holy Spirit, are those mansions!! In His Father's house, He is making a place (position of placement) for each one of us.
You and I are not yet there with Him, though He Himself, through His Spirit, dwells in us. We all are waiting for the Day of His coming from Heaven, in flaming fire.

 

[Earburner]

Do you not yet understand that God the Father and God the Son were always spirit, and their Sacrifice for us was that Jesus, God the Son came down to earth out of Heaven, in the form of a man, being God Himself made to be "flesh and blood".

Now, when He was Resurrected into "flesh and bone", He WILL ALWAYS BARE, the image of BOTH God and man. He still is God the Son, but now in the flesh of a NEW Creation, being "the firstborn FROM the dead", being no more that which we inherited through Adam.That quite literally was, God the Son's Sacrifice for us!!

No longer is He only God the Son, but now He is God the Son/Mediator forever.
1 Timothy 2:5
Hebrews 8:6
Hebrews 9:15
Hebrews 12:24

 

[ScottA]

Again, you only speak half the truth, thus making a whole lie!
YES! He is with you now, but you ARE NOT yet with Him!
As long as you are in your "flesh and blood" body, you have not yet been "changed" /resurrected into your NEW immortal body, that is in the likeness of His.
Please digest the Lord's words:
John 14 [2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

We who are now born again of His Holy Spirit, are those mansions!! In His Father's house, He is making a place (position of placement) for each one of us.
You and I are not yet there with Him, though He Himself, through His Spirit, dwells in us. We all are waiting for the Day of His coming from Heaven, in flaming fire.

Okay, we're done.

Again you speak for yourself psychological projections of the very thing you yourself are doing not receiving all of what is written even though I have repeatedly given the other passages and reconciled them to what you ha presented, while you have not been able to reconcile them, but continue with your added theories and rhetoric. By which you have made it personal, a testimony of your own error.

We're done.

My apologies to anyone else who reads this thread, it's pretty ugly. Nonetheless, I do believe there is sufficient information here (if it doesn't get deleted) for you to discern the truth according to the scriptures.

 

[Earburner]

Were done? Hardly!!
You haven't even scratched the surface!!

God the Father loves us so much, that He sent His Son, (2nd Person of the Godhead) who Sacrificed His life for us. In so doing, He has now "many brethren", because of their faith in His Sacrifice.
Jesus is now our Brother!!

But as to the DEPTH of that Sacrifice for both the Father and the Son, YOU don't care to know!

So then, I will leave you with this, of which btw, has been thoroughly abused by the churches:
KJV Matthew 13[44] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
[45] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
[46] Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
> Can you figure out who the "merchant man" is, that sold (sacrificed) all that he had, and bought the field (world) by his blood?
Now, who are the "pearls" (treasure)?

As to all of what you and I have discussed,
I apologize for nothing!!

 

[Earburner]

As I said, you read and even quote the words but you do not understand their meaning. Even when it blatantly states that "the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night", you do not perceive the hour. This is that night, and those things listed in the scriptures you quoted are happening all around us as we speak. But you are like those who did not know Him when He first came.

You make the same mistake as those who crucified Him. You do not even know that you are among those who are now saying "Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." You are among the scoffers that were foretold, saying:

"You and I are still here, and not there with Him yet!" -- But you only speak for yourself.​

As for me, I told you He is with me now.

Ahhh....but the answer is, YOU are not yet with Him, because..."flesh and blood" cannot inherit the KoG.
You are still in your "flesh and blood" body!!
You are not yet immortal as Jesus!

Even Jesus, who went before us, as the "firstborn from the dead", DID NOT resurrect into His OLD BODY of "flesh and blood" , but rather was in His NEW BODY of "flesh and bone", because "flesh and blood" cannot inherit the KoG, but you deny that!!

 

[Earburner]

As I said, you read and even quote the words but you do not understand their meaning. Even when it blatantly states that "the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night", you do not perceive the hour. This is that night, and those things listed in the scriptures you quoted are happening all around us as we speak. But you are like those who did not know Him when He first came.

You make the same mistake as those who crucified Him. You do not even know that you are among those who are now saying "Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." You are among the scoffers that were foretold, saying:

"You and I are still here, and not there with Him yet!" -- But you only speak for yourself.​

As for me, I told you He is with me now.

You are STILL denying the words of the Holy Spirit through Paul:
1 Thessalonians 1[6] And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
[7] So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

[8] For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
[9] For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
> The saints described above, WERE Born Again of the Holy Spirit!! If they were IN GOD, for what reason
Did Paul say that they were to "wait for His Son from Heaven"?
YOU don't know!

But here is scripture that shall inform you:
1 Cor. 15[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

[Earburner]

Again you speak for yourself psychological projections of the very thing you yourself are doing not receiving all of what is written even though I have repeatedly given the other passages and reconciled them to what you ha presented, while you have not been able to reconcile them, but continue with your added theories and rhetoric. By which you have made it personal, a testimony of your own error.

So, lets look at that whole scripture, that you partially quoted, of which you habitually do in most of your writings.

What was to come in the last days?
2 Peter 3[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

What will the scoffers be saying?
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

What shall be said of the scoffer's knowledge, concerning the end of this age?
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
.
How and when will the heavens and the earth be ignited unto fire?
See 2 Thessalonians 1[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:...[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[Earburner]

As I said, you read and even quote the words but you do not understand their meaning. Even when it blatantly states that "the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night", you do not perceive the hour. This is that night, and those things listed in the scriptures you quoted are happening all around us as we speak. But you are like those who did not know Him when He first came.

Yes, thiefs are like that! You never know when a thief comes to steal from you. They do it "suddenly" and without an appointment
Mark 13:36
1 Thessalonians 5:3

 

[fellow]

Jesus returns. Israel is gathered. Jesus sits on His throne. The nations are gathered. Jesus judges the nations. The unrighteous - those who did not care for the Jews - are sent away. The righteous - those who did care for the Jews, are welcomed into the kingdom. These are they who repopulate the earth in the 1000 year kingdom
Much love!

Where in scripture does it says "one must care for the Jews"?

 

[Earburner]

And that is where you depart from the gospel of Christ, whom did not commit His "PHYSICAL" body to the Father, but only His spirit. That "PHYSICAL" part...you have added or believed from the false teachings of men, for it is not in the scriptures.

Then why was Jesus resurrected?
If coming back alive was all that was needed, by Him being resuscitated, that would have been sufficient, but then again, that was a common experience. Jesus as comatose, but now alive again?
NO!! It was MORE than that!!
It was for the first time, the Resurrection unto NEW LIFE, which was indeed PHYSICAL and a Miracle

 

[Earburner]

So what's next? Are you going to say that Jesus is a false prophet, spreading LIES that He is alive again, with blood in His veins, knowing full well that was impossible, given the fact of His Crucifixion?
Which was it?
A resuscitation back to His old life, or
A resurrection into NEW Life?
Please answer for your choice.

 

[Earburner]

There is an amazing facet in the words of
2 Timothy 2[17] And their word (of false teachers) will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
[18] Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Do you not look for and wait for the Lord Jesus to return from Heaven, in like manner, as the disciples SAW Him ascend into Heaven?

"WHEN" shall Jesus be glorified in all his Saints, who believe in Him, or IS THAT already past?

Not sure? Lets check the scriptures:
2 Thes. 1[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.