The Restrainer. And the Restrained.

[Waiting on him]

Think again if you think it is the omnipresent Holy Spirit that will be taken out of the way.

It is darkness that is removed, only then is sin revealed. The Holy Spirt doesn’t restrain truth. That’s a pretty strong accusation for @Timtofly to suggest.

 

[Timtofly]

Think again if you think it is the omnipresent Holy Spirit that will be taken out of the way.

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

Do you not see the contrast between those without the seal of the Holy Spirit and those not?

God is not obligated to call mankind by way of the Holy Spirit forever. Once Christ is on the earth, all faith will be removed. God will harden their hearts like He did to Pharoah. Christ will once more walk this earth with His 144k sealed disciples reaping the harvest and sowing seed directly. So the work of the Holy Spirit will be taken away.

So will the church. We leave at the Second Coming, yet Christ remains for the final harvest.

 

[6 Stories]

Now we beseech you brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him, that ye be not troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of the Lord is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what with-holdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way, and then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: even him whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-10

The above verses are perhaps, alongside Daniel 7 and Revelation 13, the most significant texts in the entire word of God as to revealing the identity of the Antichrist of scripture. When reading Daniel 7 and Revelation 13, and in contemplating the above, the reader cannot help but be impressed with the detail and amount of information given regarding the nature, the thoughts, beliefs and practices of this entity who from the beginnings of the Christian faith to the present time, has shed such a dark forbidding cloud over the true church. In these few short verses the apostle Paul has given his readers a clear and unambiguous signpost pointing directly to the rise of the man of sin, the son perdition. A signpost that he first revealed to the Thessalonian church in person, and reaffirmed in this letter. Bible scholars for centuries have agreed that the reason Paul was less than forthcoming in his letter in naming the ‘restrainer’ directly as he is commonly known, was because there was a very real danger involved in so doing.
So once the Thessalonians learned who this 'retainer' was, I think it obvious that such information would be shared not only with other churches and Christians outside of Thessalonica, but information that would be handed down through the generations following, with those knowing this truth looking forward to witnessing the fall, withdrawal, or removal of this entity. How can we know who it was Paul was warning about? This is the entity whose removal would introduce the Antichrist. So let us ask those who Paul spoke to, or at least those who kept that information and informed others.

Let me start with Tertullian (160-240 A. D.):

“‘For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now hinders must hinder, until he be taken out of the way.’ What obstacle is there but the Roman state, the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist upon its own ruins? ‘And then shall be revealed the wicked one.”
“On the Resurrection of the
Flesh,” chapter 24; Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. III, p. 563

In yet another comment, Tertullian states: “The very end of all things threatening dreadful woes is only retarded by the continued existence of the Roman Empire.”

(“Apology,” chapter 32; Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. III, p. 43).

A little later Lactantius,. in the early fourth century wrote: “The subject itself declares that the fall and ruin of the world will shortly take place; except that while the city of Rome remains, it appears that nothing of this kind is to be feared. But when that capital of the world shall have fallen, and shall have begun to be a street, which the Sibyls (Prophets) say shall come to pass, who can doubt that the end has now arrived to the affairs of men and the whole world? It is that city, that only, which still sustains all things.” (“The Divine Institutes,” book 7, chapter 25; Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. VII, p. 220).

Also early in the fourth century Cyril of Jerusalem (318-386 A. D.) had this to say: “But this aforesaid Antichrist is to come when the times of the Roman Empire shall have been fulfilled, and the end of the world is drawing near. There shall rise up together ten kings of the Romans, reigning in different parts perhaps, but all about the same time; and after those an eleventh, the Antichrist, who by his magical craft shall seize upon the Roman power; and of the kings who reigned before him, ‘three he shall humble,’ and the remaining seven he shall keep in subjection to himself.” (Catechetical Lectures,” section 15, on II Thessalonians 2:4; Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. VII, p. 108 [New York: The Christian Literature Company, 1895]).

(Author: Much could be said about this quote; he, as the others had before him, also is clearly linking the prophecy of Daniel to the text of Paul’s, agreeing with other eminent writers of his time that out of Rome would evolve ten kings, 3 of whom the antichrist would subdue. (Daniel 7:7,8) When the restrainer, Rome, was to be taken out of the way, and after the horns of Daniel 7 arise, with 3 of them destroyed, the antichrist would be revealed.)

Now Ambrose (died in 398): “After the falling or decay of the Roman Empire, Antichrist shall appear.” (Quoted in, Bishop Thomas Newton,
Dissertations on the Prophecies, p. 463)……

….and Chrysostom (died in 407): “When the Roman Empire is taken out of the way, then he [the Antichrist] shall come. And naturally. For as long as the fear of this empire lasts, no one will willingly exalt himself, but when that is dissolved, he will attack the anarchy, and endeavor to seize upon the government both of man and of God.”

“Homily IV on 2 Thessalonians 2:6-9,” Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. XIII, p. 389
[New York: Charles Scribner’s and Sons, 1905]…..

…and finally Jerome (died 420): “He that letteth is taken out of the way, and yet we do not realize that Antichrist is near.”

(Letter to Ageruchia, written about 409A. D. Letter 123, section 16; Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. VI, p. 236

Jerome’s testimony is interesting. He admits and agrees with other early church fathers of his era, on the word of the apostle Paul, that pagan Rome was the restrainer, and had been removed in his (Jerome’s) lifetime. Yet it had not yet been made apparent who the power was that could definitively be called the Antichrist. Why? Because from Jerome’s perspective, he could not see all the signs of the Antichrist’s coming, as they had yet to be revealed in history. The capital of the empire had been removed to Constantinople, and the Gothic barbarian kings were already well entrenched in ongoing battles and wars to decide who would rule over the territories not long since vacated by Rome, but the three horns to be subdued were still in power. When they were subdued, it would then be known by whose power they were done away, and the identity of Antichrist would be revealed.
Which begs the question. Considering this power we speak of, pagan Rome, was the entity the early church fathers all obviously had been told by Paul through inspiration of the Spirit, being the restrainer, why does the modern church look elsewhere for such information? Why the need for guesswork? And of course this leads to a number of other questions... But first things first.

"for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first"
"And now ye know what with-holdeth"
The answer of what with-holdeth is right there in the text!

The man of sin will not be revealed until Christians fall away from Christ.
Christians (through the power of the Holy Spirit) have withheld this man of sin since the fall of Rome.

This is shown in the first 5 seals which have repeatedly found fulfillment.
Seal 1. The conqueror - potential man of sin or antichrist rises
Seals 2-4. The conqueror brings war which brings famine and pestilence. However, unlike Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome, this conqueror is limited in his ability to cause death to 1/4 of the earth by Seal 5 - Christian martyrs.

This is affirmed in Matt 24. With the above signs Jesus said, "the end is not yet." These signs have existed for centuries.

Example:
Hitler was a conqueror, who could have become that man of sin, but he was limited in his conquering by the Christian nations who opposed him.

Warning:
The nations who opposed Hitler have become or are moving toward a post-Christian phase. When Christians won't stop the conqueror, the conqueror will become that man of sin. This conqueror will not be limited to power over just 1/4 of the earth. The great falling away is in full swing.

 

[Timtofly]

It is darkness that is removed, only then is sin revealed. The Holy Spirt doesn’t restrain truth. That’s a pretty strong accusation for @Timtofly to suggest.

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

The mystery of iniquity is being held back. Not the truth. Satan does not have free reign. Only if he gets 42 months will there be full blown desolation.

The truth has never been hid. Except by those who failed to shine forth as commanded. Satan does not prevent the truth. Satan may offer a false light and knowledge, but Satan cannot hide the truth nor the light. Humans do that on their own just fine. Mostly by apathy.


This is looking at it from a different angle: 2 Corinthians 4:2-4

"But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully (all the above are the mystery of iniquity); but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."

"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

Satan cannot hide the truth, but he can blind our minds. That is what I said with a false truth.

These verses do not claim the mystery of iniquity is full blown. It just points out human nature is drawn to this mystery of iniquity. To say there is total depravity and Satan is preventing truth is totally against God's Word. The Holy Spirit is working in every single human, not just some humans. The lost in these verses are the reprobate who have totally driven the Holy Spirit out of their lives. That is a state that humans chose, who have given themselves over freely to the mystery of iniquity. God has let them be blinded to the truth. That is not the default state we are born into.

At the Second Coming God will allow all mankind to be reprobate, totally depraved. That is what will happen when the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way.

None of these verses claim that light cannot be seen at all. That would negate what the Holy Spirit does. Satan is not preventing the light according to these verses. The light is preventing the mystery of iniquity. The word mystery should indicate what is being held back. Paul is not saying the mystery of the gospel is being held back. And at the Second Coming the light will shine through. At the Second Coming it will be too late, even though the whole spiritual blindness is removed. The first coming brought more light into the world, and nothing was taken out of the way. Paul was talking about a future event, not the first coming. Even before the Cross the mystery of iniquity was never full blown. Not even in Pharoah when he refused to let Israel leave Egypt.

The mystery of iniquity will be unleashed during the GT, while Christ is on earth gathering the final harvest. Even the pit will be opened in the 5th Trumpet to let Satan's angels loose on the world to judge the world. It will be God sending a strong delusion, not Satan. Right now it is Satan decieving humans with false truths that seem harmless, but take us away from shining the light into the darkness of sin. Sin is bad, but the mystery of iniquity goes much deeper than sin.

 

[Waiting on him]

2 Thessalonians 2:8 KJV
[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Paul knew this was coming for those whom were not displaying the fruit of the Holy Spirit in that specific church. The reason for the epistle in the first place. The way he knew was because what he is describing is exactly what he experienced first hand on the road to demascuss.
You can refer to the book of acts to read his own account.

it is hard for the to kick against the pricks.

 

[Waiting on him]

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

The mystery of iniquity is being held back. Not the truth. Satan does not have free reign. Only if he gets 42 months will there be full blown desolation.

The truth has never been hid. Except by those who failed to shine forth as commanded. Satan does not prevent the truth. Satan may offer a false light and knowledge, but Satan cannot hide the truth nor the light. Humans do that on their own just fine. Mostly by apathy.

Define for me what that word mystery means in a concordance please.

 

[Enoch111]

Paul was less than forthcoming in his letter in naming the ‘restrainer’ directly as he is commonly known, was because there was a very real danger involved in so doing.

The Restrainer who restrains Satan and the Antichrist is none other than God the Holy Spirit: When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. (Isa 59:19)

 

[Waiting on him]

Here I’ll do it for you.


Greek: μυστήριον
Transliteration: mustērion
Pronunciation: moos-tay'-ree-on
Definition: From a derivative of μύω muō (to shutthe mouth); a secret or mystery (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites): - mystery.

You see for the born of God there is a revelation of sin. Your sin is no longer a mystery, when that blinding light comes as it did for Paul, your sin and wickedness will be seen for the first time, you’ll be dethroned, then and only then can Christ reign.

 

[Waiting on him]

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

The mystery of iniquity is being held back. Not the truth. Satan does not have free reign. Only if he gets 42 months will there be full blown desolation.

The truth has never been hid. Except by those who failed to shine forth as commanded. Satan does not prevent the truth. Satan may offer a false light and knowledge, but Satan cannot hide the truth nor the light. Humans do that on their own just fine. Mostly by apathy.[/QUOTE

 

[Waiting on him]

Anyhow, epistle is a short read, maybe read it for yourselves and forget what man has lead you to believe….. maybe even ask God Himself, why was Paul writing to this church in the first place.

 

[Nancy]

Sorry, this is off topic but prophesy speaks of Jesus on the earth at His 2nd coming...
Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians says that both the resurrected dead and the living believers will be “caught up together…to meet the Lord in the air” (1 Thess. 4:17). Although Paul does not say what will happen next, the prophet Zechariah does: “And in that day His feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,;…thus the Lord my God will come” (Zech. 14:1-5).

Amen, that when will split the earth while standing on/over the Dome of The Rock? This often crosses my mind.
Which will then allow the Jews to build a physical temple.

 

[quietthinker]

Sorry, this is off topic but prophesy speaks of Jesus on the earth at His 2nd coming...
Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians says that both the resurrected dead and the living believers will be “caught up together…to meet the Lord in the air” (1 Thess. 4:17). Although Paul does not say what will happen next, the prophet Zechariah does: “And in that day His feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,;…thus the Lord my God will come” (Zech. 14:1-5).

have you considered these texts are talking of seperate events?

 

[Timtofly]

Here I’ll do it for you.


Greek: μυστήριον
Transliteration: mustērion
Pronunciation: moos-tay'-ree-on
Definition: From a derivative of μύω muō (to shutthe mouth); a secret or mystery (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites): - mystery.

You see for the born of God there is a revelation of sin. Your sin is no longer a mystery, when that blinding light comes as it did for Paul, your sin and wickedness will be seen for the first time, you’ll be dethroned, then and only then can Christ reign.

The topic is not salvation.

The topic is the Second Coming.

"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

The Second Coming is still in the future, sooner now than 1900+ years ago.

Paul is writing to those who have already seen the light of the gospel, but are waiting for the physical return. Paul is not writing to the lost unsaved in darkness, telling them the light of the gospel will soon shine upon them.

Your holding back the light is not even in context. What is being held back is the mystery of iniquity. That which was already at work. Part of that is the whole of western science. Satan has blinded us with a knowledge that seems harmless, but leads us to the mystery of iniquity itself.

Hitler and his officers put science ahead by leaps and bounds by doing human experiments on millions, whom would die in concentration camps. Even that was not the Great Tribulation.

 

[Heart2Soul]

One day you’ll see what the temple is.

The rebuilding of the temple (as prophesied) is what the non-christian Jews believe must happen before Christ can come....not return....but come for the first time....they are still awaiting for the coming Messiah...
This is an article from 1989...
JEWS SEEK TO REBUILD THE TEMPLE
Alfonso Chardy, Knight-Ridder NewspapersCHICAGO TRIBUNE


Christians have the Church of the Holy Sepulchre; Moslems the Dome of the Rock. But Jews have only the Western Wall, a mere vestige of the Second Temple.

For nearly 2,000 years, Jews have lamented the loss of the Temple, longing to rebuild it in hopes of hastening the coming of the Messiah.
A movement is now afoot among nationalistic and religious Jews to rebuild the Temple. The first effort, however, met with failure: Traditionalist Jews tried to lay the cornerstone for the Temple near the Western Wall on Monday, but police barred them from the site after Palestinians protested nearby......

Today there is an organization lead by the Sanhedrins that have been preparing for the 3rd temple to be built...they have all the items that are to be placed in it such as the Menorah...etc.
This article is from a news source in the UK...it is written for a Christian audience hence the use of "Second Coming"....
Jerusalem Third Temple: Sanhedrin 'unintentionally' paving way to Second Coming - claim

According to Professor Tom Meyer, a college professor who has memorised 20 books from the Bible, a council of Jewish rabbis known as the Sanhedrin could "unintentionally" set the stage for Jesus' return.

He said: "Biblically speaking, a third Jewish Temple is a necessity because Biblical prophecy states that the Antichrist will proclaim himself to be the true Christ in the yet-to-be-built Third Jewish Temple.

 

[Heart2Soul]

have you considered these texts are talking of seperate events?

It could be...everytime I think I finally know it all p) I get another correction to what I have learned from the Holy Spirit...
I never cease to seek for truth or the hidden wisdom of God.
Two times there is the mention of a book/scroll that had things written that wasn't to be shared until the appointed time....In Daniel...and in Revelation...and I believe that what Daniel and John saw in it has the final puzzle piece that will tie everything together and we will know all as the mystery is made known.

 

[Grailhunter]

It could be...everytime I think I finally know it all p) I get another correction to what I have learned from the Holy Spirit...
I never cease to seek for truth or the hidden wisdom of God.
Two times there is the mention of a book/scroll that had things written that wasn't to be shared until the appointed time....In Daniel...and in Revelation...and I believe that what Daniel and John saw in it has the final puzzle piece that will tie everything together and we will know all as the mystery is made known.

Some of it has been shared but it is not within the Fundamentalism range

 

[Heart2Soul]

Some of it has been shared but it is not within the Fundamentalism range

I can accept this...but i don't know what has been shared.

 

[quietthinker]

It could be...everytime I think I finally know it all p) I get another correction to what I have learned from the Holy Spirit...
I never cease to seek for truth or the hidden wisdom of God.
Two times there is the mention of a book/scroll that had things written that wasn't to be shared until the appointed time....In Daniel...and in Revelation...and I believe that what Daniel and John saw in it has the final puzzle piece that will tie everything together and we will know all as the mystery is made known.

I would suggest they are talking of seperate events.....the question is what are they? We know that Paul in Thessalonians is speaking of Jesus second coming because there is the reference to the resurrection of Gods people and them meeting him in the air.

The text in Zechariah however where Jesus' feet touch the Mount of Olives has totally different circumstances surrounding it....the mountain splits and becomes a great plain. What do you think that plain might be for?

Anyway, I don't want to derail backlit's thread. Perhaps another one needs starting for this topic.

 

[Grailhunter]

I can accept this...but i don't know what has been shared.

No you don't. But you have what you need for salvation, and that is what counts. The rest will be explained to you when we meet in heaven. Salvation is yours. Walk with Christ and be good and do good and reap the rewards.

 

[Heart2Soul]

No you don't. But you have what you need for salvation, and that is what counts. The rest will be explained to you when we meet in heaven. Salvation is yours. Walk with Christ and be good and do good and reap the rewards.

10-4! That's the best advice I have received all day.