The Restrainer

[brakelite]

So when you ask, do you know for a fact that some men will not still die in heaven, or do you know for a fact there will be no disputes in heaven, I guess my answer is...that wouldn't BE heaven, in my estimation. The passage sounds like a great improvement, but it doesn't sound like a perfection of heaven. page

I think you would have to read the passage for yourself to see what I am saying...

I've looked back and cannot find a quoted passage. Can you give a reference please?
The reason I'm asking is that I don't believe a passage speaking of disputes and death refers to either the millennium or heaven.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Its probably...Isaiah. But you have to read the prophets with the understanding that as far as time goes, they speak backwards and forwards and back again. And if there is any gap of time, they don't alert you to it. (For example, when Jesus stood up and read from Isaiah, and the place He chose to stop reading, there's a gap of time at that point.)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So you should read all of Isaiah with that mindset.

 

[brakelite]

So you should read all of Isaiah with that mindset.

That's not the way I read scripture. While I agree that different prophecies apply to different times, you can get into all sorts of trouble taking a passage of scripture and applying it to a specific time without corroboration from other scriptures.
We are told some specifics regarding the millennium.

• It starts with a resurrection and it finishes with a resurrection
• The first resurrection is the resurrection to life which takes place at the second coming.
• At the same time, the living saints are changed.
• The saints of all ages then meet together for the first time with their Saviour in the air.
• During this time the devil is bound. He is spirit, therefore whatever is binding him cannot be physical, but circumstantial, which makes sense because of no one is alive on the planet, he cannot tempt them or receive them.
• However, the second resurrection, the resurrection to damnation, takes place at the end of the millennium when the devil is loosed for a short time.
• He now has all the wicked of all ages to deceive, and he does just that.
• The holy city, the new Jerusalem, comes down out of heaven and settles upon the earth and is immediately surrounded by the wicked as well as the devil and his angels, who now understand that their only hope of life now is to forcibly take the throne.
• Fire comes down out of heaven and destroys them all.
• The new heavens and the new earth are created, and it is then that peace finally reigns.

 

[tzcho2]

So, you guys think we are in the millennial kingdom now and Christ Jesus is reigning on earth?

 

[Earburner]

So you're using that passage to justify that your thoughts are aligned with God's, but mine simply arent?

My point is, God has His own thoughts ABOUT His own words. And each man has their thoughts about God's words.
For each man out of a million, who are saying the same identical thing about His words, it is they who are saying what God thinks about His own words.
.
Please digest this verse:
Isa. 55:8-9[8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
[9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
> Now we, who are born again Christians, we do now have His Holy Spirit permanently, and can know God's thoughts about His own words.
John 16[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Unfortunately, down through ages, since Christ's first appearance, the churches have been inundated with false preaching and teaching by the "tares", who did not and still do not have the Holy Spirit of God.
.
Such teachings were derived and hatched from religious denominations, through corrupt religious minds of "higher learning", generated by logical and analytical study, being completely void of the Spirit of God.
.
"There can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth"- Earburner.

 

[Earburner]

That's not the way I read scripture. While I agree that different prophecies apply to different times, you can get into all sorts of trouble taking a passage of scripture and applying it to a specific time without corroboration from other scriptures.
We are told some specifics regarding the millennium.

• It starts with a resurrection and it finishes with a resurrection
• The first resurrection is the resurrection to life which takes place at the second coming.
• At the same time, the living saints are changed.
• The saints of all ages then meet together for the first time with their Saviour in the air.
• During this time the devil is bound. He is spirit, therefore whatever is binding him cannot be physical, but circumstantial, which makes sense because of no one is alive on the planet, he cannot tempt them or receive them.
• However, the second resurrection, the resurrection to damnation, takes place at the end of the millennium when the devil is loosed for a short time.
• He now has all the wicked of all ages to deceive, and he does just that.
• The holy city, the new Jerusalem, comes down out of heaven and settles upon the earth and is immediately surrounded by the wicked as well as the devil and his angels, who now understand that their only hope of life now is to forcibly take the throne.
• Fire comes down out of heaven and destroys them all.
• The new heavens and the new earth are created, and it is then that peace finally reigns.

HOLD UP!
Isn't Jesus' Resurrection, the FIRST Resurrection?
Is He not "the FIRST born [of NEW Life] among many brethren" ?
If you have been Born Again of His Holy Spirit, don't you now "hath part" in His Resurrection, which is the FIRST? How else does one now become made to be
"a partaker OF THE DIVINE NATURE"?

 

[friend of]

Now we, who are born again Christians, we do now have His Holy Spirit permanently, and can know God's thoughts about His own words.

So once again, you, Earburner, are born again and your interpretation is correct whilst I am not born again and my interpretation is incorrect.

Because you say so.

Am I following you rightly so far?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That's not the way I read scripture. While I agree that different prophecies apply to different times, you can get into all sorts of trouble taking a passage of scripture and applying it to a specific time without corroboration from other scriptures.
We are told some specifics regarding the millennium.

• It starts with a resurrection and it finishes with a resurrection
• The first resurrection is the resurrection to life which takes place at the second coming.
• At the same time, the living saints are changed.
• The saints of all ages then meet together for the first time with their Saviour in the air.
• During this time the devil is bound. He is spirit, therefore whatever is binding him cannot be physical, but circumstantial, which makes sense because of no one is alive on the planet, he cannot tempt them or receive them.
• However, the second resurrection, the resurrection to damnation, takes place at the end of the millennium when the devil is loosed for a short time.
• He now has all the wicked of all ages to deceive, and he does just that.
• The holy city, the new Jerusalem, comes down out of heaven and settles upon the earth and is immediately surrounded by the wicked as well as the devil and his angels, who now understand that their only hope of life now is to forcibly take the throne.
• Fire comes down out of heaven and destroys them all.
• The new heavens and the new earth are created, and it is then that peace finally reigns.

If you do not see clues in scripture as to where in the future a prophecy seems to be, then you don't. Its okay. I happen to see clues.

 

[Waiting on him]

So, you guys think we are in the millennial kingdom now and Christ Jesus is reigning on earth?

I call him Lord

 

[brakelite]

HOLD UP!
Isn't Jesus' Resurrection, the FIRST Resurrection?
Is He not "the FIRST born [of NEW Life] among many brethren" ?
If you have been Born Again of His Holy Spirit, don't you now "hath part" in His Resurrection, which is the FIRST? How else does one now become made to be
"a partaker OF THE DIVINE NATURE"?

The first resurrection from the grave... For us.

 

[tzcho2]

I call him Lord

Is that a yes you believe this is the millennial kingdom with Christ Jesus reigning upon the earth now? and Satan is bound?

 

[Waiting on him]

Is that a yes you believe this is the millennial kingdom with Christ Jesus reigning upon the earth now? and Satan is bound?

Yes

 

[Earburner]

So once again, you, Earburner, are born again and your interpretation is correct whilst I am not born again and my interpretation is incorrect.

Because you say so.

Am I following you rightly so far?

I am not putting you into any position of faith that you suppose. However, since you think that I am, you should examine yourself.
2 Cor. 13[5] Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
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1. If you are born again of the Holy Spirit, is He your one and only guide for truth?
2. Do you fall in line with all of the doctrines of your church, without question?
3. Do you often read "christian" authored books (videos etc.)?
4. Do you always hold your Pastor's knowledge of God's word above what you personally study, and have come to know otherwise?
5. Do often ask yourself and God, why there are so many different views, about so many biblical topics?
6. Since Jesus is "the Truth", do you believe that He alone can show you His Truth, through God's word, apart from what others believe through their higher learning and denominational, indoctrinated studies?
7. Do you have faith in Jesus alone, or are you unknowingly having faith in the faith of others to teach you?

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes

2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


Tecarta Bible

 

[friend of]

I am not putting you into any position of faith that you suppose. However, since you think that I am, you should examine yourself.

I don't know if you are that's why I'm asking you to clarify, cuz it sounds like you are.

 

[friend of]

Also, for everyone saying we're in the Millenial Kingdom at this time, you really have to provide the date or significant event that Satan's release coincided with.

 

[tzcho2]

Yes

This world filled with murderous terrorists, pedophiles, violent gangs & drug cartels -- increasingly filled with evil , corruption, violence & murder is evidence that the Lord Jesus is reigning over it and Satan is bound?

 

[Earburner]

Also, for everyone saying we're in the Millenial Kingdom at this time, you really have to provide the date or significant event that Satan's release coincided with.

All of Christendom has an issue with date setting, where it's not called for.
No one here is willing or able to explain to me how
2 Peter 3:8 can be understood as literal. Can you give it a try?
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years [is with the Lord] as one day.
.
If you can interpret that to be literal, then I will understand that there will be a thousand year reign of Christ on the earth.
.
But, if you can't interpret it to be literal, then the knowledge of how God "thinks" (perceives) about a thousand years, means something else. And if that is so, then what is God saying in 2 Peter 2:3?
.
Here is your chance to win me over to your way of "thinking" about a thousand year KoG on earth.

 

[Waiting on him]

This world filled with murderous terrorists, pedophiles, violent gangs & drug cartels -- increasingly filled with evil , corruption, violence & murder is evidence that the Lord Jesus is reigning over it and Satan is bound?

You make it sound like a dung heap.