1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The Restrainer

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Naomi25, May 3, 2019.

  1. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    457
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Actually, Revelation 20:3 does state that while he is locked in the Abyss he will not be able to deceive the nations any longer. When we consider the entire purpose of his existence is dedicated to deceiving and bringing about the destruction of souls, it stands to reason that this verse indicates that all of his powers will be arrested at this time, not just his ability to "deceive" which can also be considered his primary means of conducting such warfare.

    I don't think he's been sealed in the Abyss yet because he's the grand general of blasphemy and God's given him permission to continue in this way for a certain amount of time. He knows his time is short, God basically allows him to party it up now cuz he's going away forever. Satan is like the host/coordinator of a big demonic party. Hes the boss. I think if he were truly sealed away at this time it would be like putting him on a time-out right before the party really gets started. Pretty sure he's the only unclean entity with access to speaking with God, and so the entirely of the demonic army under him relies on his strategizing.

    Well, the fact that Christians are the most persecuted religious group in the world is a rather Hitleresque achievement of evil. Bringing WWII into the discussion doesn't help your side of the argument either ;)

    When we factor that our presence in governments across the world is rather modest and that we've thrived in spite of this, it lends credence to my side that the supernatural nature and position of the Restrainer is still intact and has not yet been moved "out of the way."
     
  2. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    457
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    I think he's still as active as ever. The whole world lies under the power of the evil one. If he were sealed at the time of the cross, I don't think John would write this verse the way he did 1 John 5:19

    I hadn't thought of the aging thing holding metaphorical meaning, but I suppose that's fair, especially when the 1000 Year Reign itself can be interpreted as metaphorical in lieu of 2 Peter 3:8. The wicked will have shortened lifespans while the righteous lifespans increase perpetually, etc. I tend to think the creation of new heavens/earth will occur at the end of Revelation 21/22 though, and that it is distinct from Millenial Kingdom, but it very well might not be.
     
  3. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    1,409
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    It is true many are here only to push their own agendas. And even those of us willing to converse still hold to doctrines of choice for very good reasons, do we not?
    However, I apologise if I've made you feel like I've never taken your thoughts seriously. I attempt to consider most ideas if I can see a true biblical weight behind them.


    I don't at all disagree with this possible hypothesis. It's probably quite sound. We know that Peter referred to Rome as 'Babylon' for similar reason. Any person steeped in OT history would have picked up the reference to a city and society that opposed the people of God, but clearly by that time Babylon was gone, Rome had taken it's place.

    However...I think my question still stands. Let's say that Rome WAS the restrainer. When we come to the verses that tell us that the restrainer lifts so that this final man of sin can come forth and be ultimately defeated by Christ at his return...how does that figure? Rome has been gone a long time. If the final Antichrist arose when Rome fell, he also would be dead and gone.
    So...I guess what I'm saying is; I'm struggling to put the "historically accurate" pieces together here.

    Thank you for providing this. It's been an interesting first stepping stone for me. I've been doing some 'Tertullian' reading today...most interesting. He was both a man to be admired, but also, as I mentioned to Phoneman777, one who was clearly uninspired (as are we all!). Some of his ideas wobble away from scriptural teachings. But, that doesn't mean all do, or what he has to say about the topic at hand is wrong.
    Yes, he clearly identifies Rome as the Restrainer. However, he also identifies a 'final man of sin' as well.
    "Tertullian, like Irenaeus, identifies the Antichrist with the Man of Sin and the Beast(56). On the one hand he speaks of many antichrists—as indeed John himself does—men who rebel against Christ at any time, and he specifically mentions Marcion and his followers as antichrists(57). Yet on the other hand he expects the specific Antichrist just before the resurrection, as a persecutor of the church(58)"
    (56)Tertullian, Against Marcion, book 5, chap. 16, and On the Resurrection of the flesh, chap. 25. in ANF, vol. 3, pp. 463, 464, and 563 respectively..
    (57) Tertullian, On Prescription Against Heresies, chap. 4, and Against Marcion, book 3, ,chap. 8, in ANF, vol. 3, pp. 245 and 327 respectively.
    (58)Tertullian, On the Resurrection. chaps. 25. 27, and Scorpiace, chap. 12, and A Treatise on the Soul, chap. 50, in ANF, vol. 3. pp. 563, 565, and 646, and 227, 228 respectively

    So, again, I'm wondering about basic timelines. How can Christ kill at his coming, a figure that is to be 'released' by an entity that ceased to be thousands of years ago?
    I'm not saying you cannot answer this, I am asking you to....thanks.

    Okay, so...to really be able to 'get into' this discussion, I'd need about a week to do some in-depth reading on these Church fathers.
    But, in want of a comment right now, I'd have to say two things: while they do indeed see the fall of Rome as a pivitol event, I don't notice, as was claimed, that any of them are saying that this information...that Rome IS the Restrainer, was passed down from Paul. That they have special revelation on this particular thing.
    Which still leads me to wonder. Rome was something of a marvel. Even in today's age, where we have nations such as America, almost nothing comes close to Rome. The road builders. 'All roads lead to Rome'. 'Pax Romana'. They changed the face of the globe...for good or ill, depending on which side you were on, I guess.
    So...why wouldn't the prevailing thought be 'when Rome goes, that's it'?
    It's essentially the same mistake the Disciples made when thinking the end of the Temple had to mean the end of the age. Surely such a momentus event HAD to signal the end of the age? The end of the temple and Jerusalem had to mean Christ's return and his establishment of the Kingdom.
    For the people living under the Roman Empire, what else could be the Restrainer? What else, bar Caesar, would God use to divinly hold back something? For them, I suspect the notion was obvious. When Rome fell, distaster would rise with this man of sin.
    I suspect that most Americans today would tell you that if America is dust, then the end of the world was nigh. They couldn't comprehend the idea that the strongest nation in the world could be bought low. No...

    So...while I'm most certainly NOT dismissing your idea...I'll certainly read on when I have the time, and I promise to truly consider. I suppose I do wish you'd answer that question about timing. And yes, I do suppose that I'm not really seeing anything that really tells me these men see a biblical reason for Rome being the Restrainer. Not yet anyway. Thus far, I'm seeing opinion based on how things were for them then. That's something we do very much today as well, is it not?
     
  4. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    1,409
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Mmm. And, please don't take any of these questions or doubt as automatic dismissals on my part. They are, and need to be, natural questions anyone should ask about such things.

    While I can agree that Papal Rome has done many wrongs in it's time, I don't know that we can historically fit both into the places you assign them, can we? First, the Roman Catholic Church began under the auspieces of the Roman Empire, as Christianity began influencing even that domain...as we see in Constantine. The RCC did not arise out of the death of the Empire, like it was birthed after a restraint was lifted.
    Also, do you truly see the RCC as a greater evil than some of the things the Roman Empire did or stood for? Peter rightly labeled Rome Babylon at one point. Can I ask what it is about the RCC that you see makes it more evil than Rome? More evil than some of the Empires and Nations that have come after it and the things they've done to Christians?

    I don't discount that it could be or is. But in my estimation, even if it IS something like the RCC, or a government or organisation...there is always a man at the top, is there not? The Pope, The President, The CEO. Wouldn't that then mean that the term or phrase and the position it fills is somewhat interchangeable?

    I think personally, I land on it being a man, because in scripture its how we see Satan moving. He is the great impersonator. God does, Satan copies. We see the notion all throughout the book of Revelation. And so, when God sent his own, beloved Son into the world, to show love, compassion and set people free, I cannot think of a more...appropriate way for Satan to 'immitate' that, then to send 'Antichrist'...one who, like Christ, performs miracles, but leads people to death and destruction through lies, rather than truth.

    But again...one man would struggle to rise, even with Satan behind him...without some sort of power base under him...so again, "Man" of sin, and "organisation of sin" sort of go hand in hand. But, that's just my opinion.
     
  5. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    1,409
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Again...I'd want to see how, specifically, the RCC meets the criteria of the man of lawlessness. Are you talking about the RCC in general, its teachings and beliefs, or are you specifically talking about the office of the Pope and the people who take the chair?

    It's just that, I'd say from scripture, that John tells us this:

    Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. -1 John 2:22

    By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. -1 John 4:2–3


    So...while I may disagree with a fair bit the RCC teaches, I can't deny that they do believe Christ is the Son of God, and that he came in the flesh.
    Now...I don't like the position of the Pope...I don't think the Bible the power it gives. And I most certainly don't like the current Pontiff...I think there are many Catholics who don't like him either. And I could see a liar getting into a position like that and doing great harm. But...it doesn't make much sense to me that Satan's 'big' plan is to start an organisation that teaches a basic truth. Because, like it or not, plenty of people have come to a saving knowledge of Christ through the RCC. If the boss at the top (the Pope) was always Satan's yes man...that's a pretty bad business model, don't you think?
     
  6. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    1,409
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    With all due respect...does it? Think about all the things we see the demonic doing in scripture...we see demon oppression/possession is big. These people were often mute and blind or unwell. Some were overly strong. In Acts we even see a girl who could tell the future because of a demon. 2 Thess 2 tells us that the Man of Lawlessness will come with the 'activity of Satan, with all power and false signs and wonders'. In Rev 16:14 we are told that demons go about performing signs. In Rev 13:11 says that 'the beast' "performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth".

    What's my point. It's this: lies are NOT Satan's only tool. And he has plenty of demons to do his bidding. We are only ever told a third of heaven went with him. How many is that? How many was in heaven to start with?

    Anyway, I suppose what I'm saying is this...maybe I'm not right. Maybe I'm way off base. But...Revelation 20 doesn't state anything more than that Satan is bound against deceiving the Nations. I would urge caution against assuming that means anything more. Always, always, take it back to scripture to make a decision.

    Except, there's obviously been limitations put upon this party, hasn't there? We already know that Jesus has "snuck into his house to plunder it" (Matt 12...I love that imagry by the way!). We also know, due to Eph 1:20 that Christ is seated upon a throne right now, above all powers, authorities and names. That includes Satan. Satan knows he got done at the cross.
    Which begs a question, don't you think? If he's "prince of this world" at the moment, and has total free reign...why are we still here? Why isn't the whole Earth like North Korea, or Iran? Why have we just had several hundred amazing years of Western 'Christian' civilization that would seem to be 'in the face' of the 'Prince of this world'? Wouldn't you think he'd prefer us to be quivering, afraid and persecuted? Barely any left? Why?
    Could it be because Satan is bound against preventing the gospel going forth? Christ DID say that he'd "build his Church and the gates of hell will not prevail". Hmm.

    Of course...If I'm right, and we've had a time of the gospel going forth in freedom, while Satan has been bound, specifically, against that....then it also stands to reason that a time is coming...or is here...when he will be 'loosed'...from those bonds. And you're talking about him partying? Think about a starved lion watching plump chickens waddle by every day, suddenly let out. No wonder our religious freedom is under attack....

    Mmm...actually, it's not really here nor there. You see...Christ told us that "in this world, you WILL have tribulation". Persecution for Christians is normal. Why? People. People hated Christ first, so it will hate us too. That's got nothing to do with Satan.
    Of course, I don't doubt Satan is doing what he can within his limitations.
    But...that brings me to my other point...yes, we've been persecuted, but...considering the odds stacked against us, we shouldn't still exists, should we?
    Think about it, using our Hitler analogy. That was one Country, with one evil dictator and an evil army willing to commit attrocities. And they killed 6 million Jews. Of how many Jews in the world? How close did they come to committing complete genocide?
    Now consider how many people, governements, leaders, ideologies, religions...I could go on....hate Christians. Worldwide. And I mean HATE. We know they do. They kill us, they ridicule us, lie about us, mock us, steal from us, take away our liberties. Why...why do you think we still exist in the numbers we do? Why do you think more Countries, leaders, religions, etc, haven't managed to do what Hitler did and rail together the support and rage in enough manner to actively begin to wipe us out, worldwide? Oh...some have tried. But none have suceeded.
    If Satan was truly reigning here on this planet, free to exercise his full deceiving powers, I think what it looks like in Syria right now, is what it would look like world wide for Christians. I think that is what's coming.

    Does that necessarily negate my theory that the 'restrainer' is also that which is 'binding' Satan as well? When the restrainer releases, Satan comes forth, as does his man of sin, and together they delge the world in anti-Christian lies and persecution.
     
  7. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    1,409
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    It's funny, really, that Christians so often argue about the Millennium. What is it that they say "the Millennium...1000 years of peace Christians like to fight about!"
    When it all comes down to it, I think one thing, but won't care less if I'm wrong, and I don't suppose anyone else will either. Bottom line: Jesus will be there...so in my book...everything will be A-Okay. :)
     
  8. brakelite

    brakelite Guest

    Thanks for your replies @Naomi25 and for treating this topic as a basis for discussion, not argument and berating. First, I didn't mean to point to you personally as being the focus of my critique of members here as being too readily willing to dismiss phoneman's and my thoughts on this topic without fair consideration. I have always found you to be one of the exceptions on any discussion. While having your own current ideas, I have never noticed you being scathingly hostile to others ideas which may be contrary to your own without discussion and thought. Your questions have opened up a pandora's box of controversy, and the answers are not without the possibility of engendering much debate and a certain amount of vehement objection from some quarters. This I fully understand, having been in their position myself, but having since been convinced that the historicist hermeneutic offers the only real Biblical and historical support for those questions you raise.
    The answers aren't simple either. Books have been written on the subject so please don't expect one line answers LOL. It's too late for me to start tonite...I need to get up for work early so am typing this brief reply before crashing for the night. I may have opportunity tomorrow to offer some full answers and which likely will lead to more questions and challenges, and that's okay. Have a good night.
     
  9. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    1,486
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The truth is that the Bible doesn't say what Paul told the Thess., so the only evidence we have to go on is historic evidence. Josephus, who wasn't even an ECF, is many times referred to for support of Biblical positions - are you saying we should now disregard what he has to say, or do you think a Jew who rejected Jesus as Messiah is a more reliable source than the ECFs?
    "And now ye know what withholdeth..." That's about as outright as it gets.
    Post #23 - England's greatest prophecy teacher whose scholarship is unsurpassed, H. Grattan Guiness. Skip to point 5. Also, here are excerpts of ECFs writing which modern prophecy teachers totally censure as if they don't exist because they destroy modern accepted ideas about a future Antichrist...y'know, much like evolutionists hide the overwhelming supporting evidence for a young Earth Biblical creation for the same reason:

    Tertulliun, 2nd - 3rd century:
    "...he who now hinders must hinder until he be taken out of the way" What obstacle is there but the Roman State, the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist..."

    (a statement detailing how the early church actually prayed for the preservation of the Roman Empire)
    "There is also another and a greater necessity for our offering prayer in behalf of the emperors, nay, for the complete stability of the empire, and for Roman interests in general. For we know that a mighty shock (rise of Antichrist) impending over the whole earth--in fact, the very end of all things threatening dreadful woes---is only retarded by the continued existence of the Roman empire. We have no desire, then, to be overtaken by these dire events; and in praying that their coming may be delayed, we are lending our aid to Rome's duration.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Chrysostom, 4th century:
    "...'he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way', that is when the Roman Empire is taken ouf of the way, then he [Antichrist] shall come; and naturally, for as long as the fear of this empire lasts, no one will readily exalt himself; but when that is dissolved, he will attack the anarch, and endeavor to seize upon the government both of men and of God."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Augustine, 4th - 5th century:
    "...it is not absurd to believe that these words of the apostle, 'Only he who now holdeth, let him hold until he be taken out of the way,' refer to the Roman empire..."
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Irenaeus, 2nd century:
    "John and Daniel have predicted the dissolution and desolation of the Roman Empire, which shall precede the end of the world and the eternal Kingdom of Christ...In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord's disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise, among whom the empire (Roman Empire) which now rules [the earth] shall be partitioned. He teaches us what the ten horns shall be which were seen by Daniel...But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them await (those who wish to identify Antichrist in Irenaeus' day), in the first place, the division of the kingdom (Pagan Rome) into ten (barbarian tribes); THEN, IN THE NEXT PLACE...[let them learn] to acknowledge that he (Antichrist) who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of desolation. ..."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Lactantius Firminianous, 4th century:
    "These are the things which are spoken of by the prophets as about to happen hereafter: ... The subject itself declares that the fall and ruin of the world will shortly take place; except that while the city of Rome remains it appears that nothing of this kind is to be feared. But when that capital of the world shall have fallen...that detestable tyrant (Antichrist) should come who will trader-take so great a deed, and dig out that eye, by the destruction of which the world itself is about to fall.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    St. Jerome, 4th - 5th century:
    "... We should therefore concur with the traditional interpretation of all the commentators of the Christian Church, that at the end of the world, when the Roman Empire is to be destroyed, there shall be ten kings who will partition the Roman world amongst themselves. Then an insignificant eleventh king (Antichrist) will arise, who will overcome three of the ten kings, ..."
    Exactly! It is just makes plain sense that if the Restrainer was an agent of holiness, there's no way Paul would've kept silent about it and if the Restrainer is Pagan Rome, this is precisely why Paul refused to put that in writing.
    I said no such thing. What I said was if the Restrainer was an agent of holiness, Paul missed a monumental opportunity to encourage them about that particular issue.
    Of course we know! :) If it was a good guy, there's no way Paul - as demonstrated by his never failing courage to declare the goodness and power of God before kings and commoners in Scripture - would have failed to declare it to the Thess. So, the Restrainer had to have been Pagan Rome as the unanimous testimony of the ECFs claims, and the reason Paul didn't write, "Hey guys, when the Roman Empire falls, the Man of Sin is going to arise" is because if the Romans got hold of that letter, they would saddle up and go forth to make Christians everywhere all dead.
    Naomi, do you not understand that much of what the early church taught was spread by word of mouth, that they were careful to be precise so as not to "add to or take away", and that what Paul told the early church about the Restrainer was spread abroad in the same careful, detailed manner as was the truths about Christ? The reason the ECFs interpreted Scripture the way they did is because that was the prevailing wisdom of the day. How else to you account for such unanimity?
    Can you name one such false teaching that was unanimously held by every ECF? Of course you can't. And yet, you are suggesting that people who lived ALMOST TWO THOUSAND YEARS after the fact are somehow in a more favorable position to comment on what the early church believed about the identity of the Restrainer, when we have the testimony of those who lived way back close to the time when Paul was telling the early church who it was?
    Ahhhhhhhhhh, and here your unconscious bias has betrayed you - "...not sure pagan Rome will be here at that time to restrain that final man" means you believe the Man of Sin Antichrist is yet to arise, the Restrainer must still be restraining its rise, and therefore you will go to any length necessary to reject any evidence no matter how compelling it is, even as compelling as what I've presented, in order to continue in your belief system. You don't even care that the whole idea of a future Antichrist was fabricated by the Jesuit Order as a means to deflect from itself the Protestant Reformation accusations that the papacy is the Antichrist - a truth to which the Bible and church history (like what the ECFs wrote about the Restrainer) attests to. The Jesuit Order beheaded millions for their faith and to this day considers death a just punishment for "heretics" but that's alright, the only existential threat to Christianity today is Islam, right?
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
    brakelite likes this.
  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    29,272
    Likes Received:
    9,903
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    "Love for God entails the rejection of false worship" as your sig says, Naomi,
    but you can "believe" eternity means forever as long as you want to, ok with me
    Ah yes, tomorrow's just a day away, huh? Everything will be aok tomorrow, when Jesus is there,
    who needs life more abundantly or to worry about thief in the night anyway, right?
    Jesus will be here tomorrow! Yay!
    lol, it's clown-talk

    Wadr I'm pretty sure you already realize on some level how warped your doctrine is Naomi, but Death More Abundantly calls like a siren-song, huh? Way worse than any heroin i guess.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    29,272
    Likes Received:
    9,903
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    ty
     
    VictoryinJesus and brakelite like this.
  12. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    457
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Well, he's not free to do everything he wants.
     
  13. brakelite

    brakelite Guest

    We might do well to remember that the restrainer is not the main character in the narrative. He is merely the means by which the principal may be identified. Much the same way as John the Baptist was the forerunner and pointer to Christ, and as he decreased so Christ increased, so must the restrainer decrease before the Antichrist increases. It is the Antichrist... The man of sin that is the principal in the narrative. And this one passage of scripture is not the only one we needed to rely upon to identify Antichrist.
     
    Phoneman777 likes this.
  14. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,970
    Likes Received:
    649
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Satan isn't bound yet today (1 Pet.5:8). He isn't bound until the day of Christ's return, and that is the timing of the Rev.20:1-3 events.

    Jesus didn't come the first time to establish His physical Kingdom yet. He came to die on the cross and thus defeat the devil, which sealed the judgement and sentence of the devil and his angels. But like Paul said, Jesus must first reign over all His enemies, and that is what His return is going to be about. That is when Satan will be bound for the thousand years of Rev.20, and only loosed one final time at the end of that period to test the nations that will have heard The Gospel during the thousand years.

    Once again, Paul did not say Jesus will deliver up the Kingdom to The Father at His second coming. Paul said Jesus MUST reign first over all His enemies. The time He will deliver up the Kingdom will be when death, hell, and Satan are destroyed in the lake of fire at the end of the thousand years. The Rev.20 events are literal, not philosophical.
     
    friend of likes this.
  15. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,392
    Likes Received:
    532
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Naomi25 said:
    I remember when I was being convicted that the Amillennial interpretation was the most biblically faithful....I struggled with this also. Because, sure...there's so much bad stuff in the world, right? How can we possibly think that Satan is bound? If he was locked away, surely things would be much better?
    The problem with that, as I came to see, is that that's not exactly what Rev 20 says. We see that it is Satan, and him alone, that is bound, only in regards to 'deceiving the nations'.
    Does this mean we are to assume his demons are also locked away from influencing people? That Satan himself cannot use his powers in any way? Well...it doesn't say that. It just says that he cannot deceive the nations. We know that Satan is the "father of lies", that he has been a lier from the very beginning. We knows that lies are the opposite of truth, and that the truth is who God is, what his Son did for us, and how people can be free: the Gospel of Jesus Christ."
    .
    Naomi, you are speaking truth, but you have not considered that after the symbolic one thousand years, being this Age of God's Grace, satan shall be loosed for a little season.
    .
    Know that he was released approx. 200 years ago!!
    While man has spent the last 6000+/- years riding in horse drawn buggies etc., ONLY RECENTLY has the world been buried in technological marvels and wonders of genius designs of creation for the benefit of man, but all at a cost to all other animal life.
    This earth (satan's abyss and the place of his eternal death), is HIS ONLY HOME. In the end he and the armies of the Beast will ultimately square off with Christ and the Saints upon His return.
    .
    Satan has been loosed!! And the Chaos that we all have been witnessing in the world in the last 200 years, is his rage and fury, by him knowing that he has not much time left.
    .
    The Age of God's Grace shall end when these two scriptures have been fulfilled: Luke 18:8; 2 Thes. 2:3.
    .
    In your recent confusion over the Amillennial view,
    I remind you Lot's wife: "Do NOT look back" .
     
  16. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    457
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    What event did this coincide with? Do you have anything to support this claim?
     
  17. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,392
    Likes Received:
    532
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Use your brain!
    The inventions in electrical power, nuclear power, planes, trains and automobiles, and the speed of light communications.
    Since the day of those inventions in the 1800s, man has advanced into robotics and AI intelligence within only 200 years.
    Question: who is the real genius behind it all, and WHY?
    Ans. Rev. 19[19] And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
     
  18. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,392
    Likes Received:
    532
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Here is a challenge for you concerning "a thousand years". Please describe the following IN LITERAL TERMS:
    2 Peter 3[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
     
  19. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    457
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    That's not a very persuasive argument.

    So Nicola Tesla was Satan incarnate or something?
     
  20. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    457
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    This isn't necessarily connected to the 1000 year reign in Revelation. It's just talking about how different God's interaction with time is than our own.
     
Loading...