The Restrainer

[CoreIssue]

Funny, I keep hearing you say that but you haven't cited a single post where an SDA has appealed to anything but Scripture and history to support his/her spiritual proposition.

If you can find just one instance where I've exchanged the Bible for EGW's writings for the purpose of establishing a Biblical truth, I'll send you $100.

View attachment 6262

No you won't. I don't believe you.

Openly stating support for Ellen G White and holding her claims is supporting her.

Such as a sanctuary judgement. Not the Bible and her invention.

 

[Phoneman777]

False. The tribulation period is two periods of 1260 days each. Clearly laid out in Revelation.

Oh brother, where do you dig this stuff up? "Jacob's time of trouble" is not 1,260 days. We don't know how long the 7 Last Plagues will plague the Earth but I can assure you that 1,260 days of nothing to drink, scorching sun, diseased flesh will kill everything in a matter of weeks, much less 1,260 days. Besides, when the last plague is poured out, "there was silence in heaven for about the space of an hour" - when all the host of heaven accompany Jesus on His return trip to gather us - and if a "day" is equal to a prophetic year (day/year principle), then an "hour" is about 15 days for the duration of the plagues - I can't prove I'm right, but you can't prove me wrong.

Satan does not counterfeit Christ.

Are you sure?

Christ is our High Priest.
The papal leader is their high priest.

Christ has His heavenly sanctuary.
The papacy has the Vatican.

Christ has His ministry of intercession
The papacy has the intercessory priesthood.

Christ has the Sabbath
The papacy has Sunday.

Christ ministers in the Holy Place among the candlestick, censure, and shewbread.
The papal Antichrist uses candles, the censure, and the Bread of the Presence.

Christ bears the holy priestly garments and robes.
The papal authorities wear priestly garments and robes.

Christ is called "Everlasting Father".
The papacy calls their leaders "father".

Of course, I could list a lot more but I list these not for your benefit, but for those who might be led astray by your false ideas.

 

[Phoneman777]

God would not have approved of African-American slavery at all, since it was based on kidnapping. Sorry for the slight diversion of the thread.

So true. Enslavement for the purpose of paying your debt is totally Biblical and wouldn't that solve every single debt issue today, from the poorest of the poor all the way up to those morons on Capital Hill.

What a shame people in our country sought to justify slavery in both the North and South of America by appealing to the Bible. Satan never takes a day off in his work of deceptoin

 

[Phoneman777]

"ignant" Lol...as has been said, it all comes out in the wash
The bible IS an historical compilation! We know the evidence is there for all and any who chooses to look deep enough. Fear of the truth I think, keeps many from putting forth honest effort to sincerely seek God. I see that in certain Christians I know too. They don't want to know anything more than what they have already learned as, they see that as just enough to get in by the skin of their noses, huh! Are they afraid that if they knew more they would be more responsible?? Mmm...yeah...me tinx dat's it...
Very good stuff Phone.

Thanks Nancy, much appreciated! You're right that the Bible is a historic document. Yet, Jesuit Futurism insists that God had nothing to say to the church from the time of Christ's departure until His Second Coming. That's just ludicrous. If it's true that we are to esteem the words of His mouth more than our necessary food, then according to Futurists the human race should have died out from starvation over 19 centuries ago.

 

[CoreIssue]

Oh brother, where do you dig this stuff up? "Jacob's time of trouble" is not 1,260 days. We don't know how long the 7 Last Plagues will plague the Earth but I can assure you that 1,260 days of nothing to drink, scorching sun, diseased flesh will kill everything in a matter of weeks, much less 1,260 days. Besides, when the last plague is poured out, "there was silence in heaven for about the space of an hour" - when all the host of heaven accompany Jesus on His return trip to gather us - and if a "day" is equal to a prophetic year (day/year principle), then an "hour" is about 15 days for the duration of the plagues - I can't prove I'm right, but you can't prove me wrong. Are you sure?

Christ is our High Priest.
The papal leader is their high priest.

Christ has His heavenly sanctuary.
The papacy has the Vatican.

Christ has His ministry of intercession
The papacy has the intercessory priesthood.

Christ has the Sabbath
The papacy has Sunday.

Christ ministers in the Holy Place among the candlestick, censure, and shewbread.
The papal Antichrist uses candles, the censure, and the Bread of the Presence.

Christ bears the holy priestly garments and robes.
The papal authorities wear priestly garments and robes.

Christ is called "Everlasting Father".
The papacy calls their leaders "father".

Of course, I list these not for your benefit, but for those who might be led astray by your false ideas.

I am absolutely sure Satan does not counterfeit Christ,

he counterfeits the father.

As for two periods 1260 days:
What is the prophecy of 1,260 days in Revelation?

Tribulation events

As well, it is the 70th week of Daniel. Seven years divided into two 3 1/2 year segments.
aniel 9:27 New International Version (NIV)
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

 

[Phoneman777]

Did my whole reply crash? Guess so hmm. So, hopefully you got that i was mostly agreeing there, but i would like to ask what your opinion on "elect deceived" is based upon the Lex or in this case only the NASB tranny, and perhaps the prevailing opinion of the um testificators of themselves if you use that as a guide, tomorrow.

Also, this World Melts thing, in the context of the Final Group thing especially, i'd like to...hear some more about that, from you, and in the interest of full disclosure, enough to have your head, just so you know. So your um proof for this tonight or first or whatever, a paragraph or more if you could, the more the better, I will read up to about...well, i'll read everything you write on that, and on the other, whenever, after the Lex/NASB render sinks in if you would, ty.

And g'nite to all

Remember when we could say "tranny" and everyone knew it had something to do with sun and planetary gear ratios...before the twist-gender apocalypse?

 

[CoreIssue]

Thanks Nancy, much appreciated! You're right that the Bible is a historic document. Yet, Jesuit Futurism insists that God had nothing to say to the church from the time of Christ's departure until His Second Coming. That's just ludicrous. If it's true that we are to esteem the words of His mouth more than our necessary food, then according to Futurists the human race should have died out from starvation over 19 centuries ago.

If you mean revelations of the church as a whole, then the last communication was the completion of the book of Revelation.

If you mean to individuals he has communicated with people via the Holy Spirit and Angels.

What you're saying is absurd. That's what you get from paying attention to Ellen G White.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

So true. Enslavement for the purpose of paying your debt is totally Biblical and wouldn't that solve every single debt issue today, from the poorest of the poor all the way up to those morons on Capital Hill.

What a shame people in our country sought to justify slavery in both the North and South of America by appealing to the Bible. Satan never takes a day off in his work of deceptoin

And it wasn't just in the U.S.--it was widely practiced throughout Central and S. America. The Spanish settlers used native people of Central and S. America as slaves. The slavery was enforced by the soldiers sent from Spain to defend the Spanish colonists. Even today, there is a "pecking order" with those of Spanish blood at the top.

 

[Phoneman777]

If you mean revelations of the church as a whole, then the last communication was the completion of the book of Revelation.

If you mean to individuals he has communicated with people via the Holy Spirit and Angels.

What you're saying is absurd. That's what you get from paying attention to Ellen G White.

Have you any idea how deeply you discredit yourself when you continue to levy such accusations while post#419 testifies that you're leaving the easiest $100 you'll ever make just sitting there on the table?

 

[Nancy]

Thanks Nancy, much appreciated! You're right that the Bible is a historic document. Yet, Jesuit Futurism insists that God had nothing to say to the church from the time of Christ's departure until His Second Coming. That's just ludicrous. If it's true that we are to esteem the words of His mouth more than our necessary food, then according to Futurists the human race should have died out from starvation over 19 centuries ago.

I know next to nothing about "Jesuit Futurism" but, if this is what they believe, it is pretty sad. Do they not believe the bible as God Breathed/inspired?

 

[Phoneman777]

I am absolutely sure Satan does not counterfeit Christ,

he counterfeits the father.

As for two periods 1260 days:
What is the prophecy of 1,260 days in Revelation?

Tribulation events

As well, it is the 70th week of Daniel. Seven years divided into two 3 1/2 year segments.
aniel 9:27 New International Version (NIV)
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Yes, a sure way to build credibility is to not answer the arguments of others.

 

[Nancy]

Funny, I keep hearing you say that but you haven't cited a single post where an SDA has appealed to anything but Scripture and history to support his/her spiritual proposition.

If you can find just one instance where I've exchanged the Bible for EGW's writings for the purpose of establishing a Biblical truth, I'll send you $100.

View attachment 6262

Lol.

 

[brakelite]

Did my whole reply crash? Guess so hmm. So, hopefully you got that i was mostly agreeing there, but i would like to ask what your opinion on "elect deceived" is based upon the Lex or in this case only the NASB tranny, and perhaps the prevailing opinion of the um testificators of themselves if you use that as a guide, tomorrow.

Also, this World Melts thing, in the context of the Final Group thing especially, i'd like to...hear some more about that, from you, and in the interest of full disclosure, enough to have your head, just so you know. So your um proof for this tonight or first or whatever, a paragraph or more if you could, the more the better, I will read up to about...well, i'll read everything you write on that, and on the other, whenever, after the Lex/NASB render sinks in if you would, ty.

And g'nite to all

That reference to the elect must not be confused with the truth that they can still fall into sin, return to the world, the vomit, and the mire, and lose their salvation as a result of renewed evil habits and thence to unbelief. The above reference relates to deception from false teachers. There will come a time I believe when a small remnant of God's people are so united in and with Christ, the Way, Truth, and Life, that they can not be deceived, so long as they continue to trust only in God's word as the foundation of their faith and practice. In other words, I see that word if/whether being conditional on faith in God's promises and His word. If isn't saying it is not possible...it is saying it is possible, unless...
Now that being said, I am not offering a translation or lexicon explanation of that verse...it is my own understanding based on my knowledge of how God works...how He has worked in my life and what I understand re His character and His purposes for man. We are ultimately saved by faith...and only faith...and the just (elect) shall live by faith. God places His word above every other consideration. If His word isn't believed...His promises not trusted...we fall. By not believing and trusting in His word, we call Him a liar and question His character. Those wholly and fully relying on , believing in, trusting in, depending on, the word/promises of God will never be deceived.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Isa51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revel.20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I am willing to be corrected on this, but I see in the above two separate events. The first at Christ's coming at the time of the general resurrection, the second (the verses in Revelations) referring to the repopulation of the earth at the close of the 1000 years. I am sure you will find plenty in that to disagree with. Everyone else does. I mean, for a start you have difficulty with the second coming at all huh.

 

[Nancy]

Something else to consider is that at the core of the nature of Antichrist is the overwhelming addiction of Satan to COUNTERFEIT Christ, right down to the "timing" of things.

The "time of Christ" - which is defined by the beginning of His ministry until His crucifixion - is 1,260 days (3 1/2 years). Is it any surprise that the "timing of Antichrist" is said in Revelation 12 to be a 1,260 day period, which prophetically speaking is 1,260 years?

No surprise here, this is what I have been told and have come to believe. Satan will come on the platform of "The Messiah" . Notice the "two" White horses in Rev. 6 and 19?

"And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals and I heard as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering and to conquer.” (Rev.6:12)

“And I saw heaven opened and behold a white horse: and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. It’s eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns: and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called the word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth giveth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. (Rev.19:11-16).

 

[Phoneman777]

I know next to nothing about "Jesuit Futurism" but, if this is what they believe, it is pretty sad. Do they not believe the bible as God Breathed/inspired?

This is what the Jesuits had to say about the Bible during the Reformation when the great Protestant Reformers were using it to expose the papacy as the Antichrist to the entire Christian world:

"Then the Bible, that serpent which - with head erect and eyes flashing with fire - threatens us with its venom as it trails upon the ground, shall be changed into a rod as soon as we are able to seize it. For three centuries past, this cruel asp has left us no repose; you well know with what folds it entwines us adn with what fangs it gnaws us."
​

The Protestant Textus Receptus Greek NT Bible had wreaked havoc against the false MSS of the papacy and for "three centuries" - from the 1500s to the 1800s - the papacy was continuously on the ropes with people continuing to abandon the "Church" for the light of Protestantism. But, the mid-1800s saw the "discovery" of the "Codex Sinaiticus", a totally corrupt Greek MSS believed by many scholars who haven't drunk the Koolaid to be a surviving copy of Constantine's "Ecumenical Bible" which was commissioned as a means to unite his empire of Christians and pagans into one ecumenical soup - these Bibles repeatedly attacked the Divinity of Christ, the necessity of blood atonement, etc.
This Codex, along with a handful of other really old MSS, was used to bring about what the Jesuits had hoped for (and actually helped to create): a rival to the Textus Receptus known as the "Critical Text", which became a major foundational pillar for just about every single NT English translation after the 20th century. The papacy BANNED the Bible in the past under penalty of death, but now is perfectly happy for people to read anything based on the Critical Text.

Not saying Christ can't be found in the newer translatoins, but there's def a safer alternative.

 

[CoreIssue]

And it wasn't just in the U.S.--it was widely practiced throughout Central and S. America. The Spanish settlers used native people of Central and S. America as slaves. The slavery was enforced by the soldiers sent from Spain to defend the Spanish colonists. Even today, there is a "pecking order" with those of Spanish blood at the top.

It was and still is practiced in Africa by Africans.

 

[CoreIssue]

I know next to nothing about "Jesuit Futurism" but, if this is what they believe, it is pretty sad. Do they not believe the bible as God Breathed/inspired?

No way I will defend Jesuits. But to claim they originated pre-tribulation is just a flat out lie.

I already posted proof of it dating back, outside the Bible, to the 300s.

 

[CoreIssue]

Yes, a sure way to build credibility is to not answer the arguments of others.

I answered you.

 

[Phoneman777]

Did the Jesuits write the Book of Ezekiel or the other OT prophets? If not, there is a lot of unfulfilled prophecy that you must account for in your theology of the End Times.

What are those prophecies to which you refer?

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

It was and still is practiced in Africa by Africans.

Yes--the Arab slave trade never really ended. N. Africans (light-skinned Arabs for the most part) enslave black Africans. I believe that is why the Book of Revelation speaks of slavery ("the bodies and souls of men"). I'm told that Arabs are quite prejudiced toward African blacks--even when the blacks are their fellow Muslims.

 

[Earburner]

What "Phoeman" said is true:
"The 2,300 Days include the period of rise of the "king of fierce countenance" which period began after the fall of the he-goat Greece - according to Daniel himself. It's too bad Daniel isn't alive today so that he could correct his errors that you have so generously pointed out.
.
As prophesied in Daniel, the 2300 days was fulfilled in the days of that "little horn" Antiochus Epiphanes of the Seleucid Empire (1 of the 4 horns out of Greece), in which he committed the act of "the AoD". It was Judas Maccabeus who cleansed/restored the temple.
All of that history is dutifully documented by the Jews (the Holy people then) in 1 and 2 Maccabees.